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You know, I’m often bemused by the ignorance of some NYT authors. Laura Lee Guhrke posted this comment in response to something that was written by another poster at my AAR column:


I’ve highlighted the part that left me a little confused. My confusion mainly stems from the fact that I didn’t know that Ms Guhrke had ever written for EC, as she obviously seems to have some kind of inside information on this.

But then Jaid Black weighed in with her thoughts, methinks she was a tad annoyed when she wrote this:

Oh my, imagine my surprise when it emerged that Ms Guhrke’s comments were based on assumption rather than any basis in fact.

What a fucking surprise, yet another big name NYT author suffering from foot-in-mouth disease. These people should be innoculated or something. That shit’s definitely catching.

The full message board can be found here.

39 Comments »


  • Angela James
    May 23
    11:22 am

    I’ll bet Tina wished she could post some actual numbers. Obviously Laura Lee Ghurke missed the Montel show where he discussed the multi-million dollar part.

    And yeah, some of the authors make more than nice earnings from there.

    I hate it when authors step in and belittle a segment of the market like that. What does it gain them to do so?

    And ahahahaha @ Gherkin. Go Tina!

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  • Kat O+
    May 23
    12:03 pm

    It always amazes me (yes, every time!) when people don’t do their homework before posting comments online. Where people can read them. Over and over and over again!

    ReplyReply


  • Kat O+
    May 23
    12:05 pm

    Oh, and BTW…”Sex is not a trend” -> that’s what I say to hubby when I just want to sleep, dammit. :-)

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  • Eve Vaughn
    May 23
    12:10 pm

    Why can’t we all just get along? It always amazes me that some people in the industry just can’t be happy for another person’s sucess.
    Prime example, I was just at RT and drooling over one of my all time fav authors, who turned out to be really nice. The author sitting next to her had to put her two cents in which really surprised the hell out of me. I was really taken aback. I won’t name names because it’s not necessary, but I think it’s kind of sad when we just can’t be happy for another person.
    Oh well, I guess it’s just human nature.

    The way I see it, when someone makes it big in the genre you write then you know there’s an audience for it and it motivates you to get your own stuff together, at least it does for me.

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  • Jane
    May 23
    12:37 pm

    Maybe LLG is doing some wishful thinking out loud. She wants EC to be a trend because she can’t write that stuff and won’t be cashing in on the popularity of it.

    I thought it just embarassed her and am documenting it for my author’s behaving badly. I don’t know why authors speaking about topics in which they have no understanding. *cough* Elizabeth Bevarly. *cough*

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  • azteclady
    May 23
    12:58 pm

    I really liked LLG’s exchange with Lydia Joyce–or rather, I liked very much LJ’s classy demeanor, as well as what she had to say.

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  • Tara Marie
    May 23
    2:29 pm

    I’m going to be the odd man out here, I don’t see this as an author behaving badly at all. I don’t think she voiced an opinion that is much different from what most romance writers and average readers think.

    It IS a small segment of the overall market, but why is saying this somehow insulting? It’s growing and growing fast, but what is it’s percentage of the whole romance market?

    She didn’t make a derogatory comment about it being about sex… EC has tapped into a market segment, no doubt, mainly a desire for more erotic romance… Isn’t this true?

    Maybe I’m not getting it, but I don’t see any of this as an insult to EC writers or readers.

    After reading the AAR thread, I find it more insulting that she doesn’t have a grasp of “wallpaper” historicals. Lydia Joyce hit the mark.

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  • Karen Scott
    May 23
    2:41 pm

    Tara, I wasn’t too bothered about the rest of her comments, what annoyed me was that she made an assumption that EC pays their authors next to nothing. How the hell does she know? She was assuming, and anybody else reading this may well take her word for it. I’m glad Jaid took her to task over it. She was being a pleb.

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  • Tara Marie
    May 23
    2:55 pm

    Karen, you’re right, …it’s because they have very little overhead and pay their authors next to nothing it’s wrong for her to assume this.

    But, it doesn’t surprise me that non erotic romance writers and readers think this, right or wrong.

    Of course, after the last few weeks in romanceland, you’d think she’d be more careful with what she’s saying. Yet, she does have a book coming out next month…

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  • Anonymous
    May 23
    3:15 pm

    The problem is that Jaid took the low crass road by calling names instead of taking a lesson from Lydia whose arguments were so intelligently presented that LLG looked ridiculous. Jaid could have done the same, but now she looks bad.

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  • Lauren Dane
    May 23
    3:36 pm

    What’s silly is the bit about how EC pays its authors “next to nothing” Because EC authors make a far bigger percentage than many other authors.

    And hello? As Kat points out, it’s not new for people to pop off on the internet and talk out of thin air with no actual facts but EC DOES have overhead. This isn’t Tina in her basement, EC has a physical building with a print warehouse and employees who receive benefits. They employ editors and secretaries and all sorts of folks – that’s the same kind of overhead other publishers have.

    The issue here is that Laura uses her biases against EC to make an arguement filled with incorrect information and false assumptions.

    That’s what’s ridiculous. That we’re all chained to our laptops for pennies.

    A fact – I make good money from my EC books. My royalties are higher than the industry standard and my print book royalties are at the standard and slightly above in some cases.

    EC isn’t taking over the market, btw. EC CREATED the market. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t other successes out there or that Avon or another pub won’t have good sales, but until I see them put out five books a week and get the same kind of sales on their releases, I’m not too worried about “miniscule” anything.

    Anyway, I’m not offended. I’m not even pissed off anymore by this tired old misinformation about EC and other Epubs. It’s just boring and tedious and frankly, I expect better of people who want to make arguments in public among their peers. Not like I’ll get what I expect of course, but I still expect it.

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  • Karen Scott
    May 23
    3:50 pm

    Anonymous, sometimes taking the high road is effing overrated.

    Anyway, LLG is determined to piss osomebody off, she adds:

    “60K a year gross isn’t what I call good money. It’s respectable, but it’s not what I define as good. Again, it’s my personal opinion. As Karen said, by the time you pay agent fees, taxes and expenses, you’re taking home about $1500 a month if you’re lucky. That’s not what I call good money.”

    Don’t you just love the arrogance of that statement?

    Anyhoo, Tara, you might be right, she has a book due out soon, so this may help with her sales numbers.

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  • azteclady
    May 23
    4:16 pm

    How does Jaid Black look bad at all? As far as I’m concerned, she did take the high road–she didn’t say “LLG is talking out of her ass” now, did she? (and I think she could have, for it’s clear by now LLG was talking out of her ass)

    Was LLG behaving badly otherwise? Maybe not, but when compared to Lydia Joyce’s so very classy remarks, her responses don’t quite hold up.

    Personally, I was surprised by how much LLG seemed to need to assert her *coughBScough* superiority as an author by repeating how long she has been published vs how long Lydia Joyce has been, for example. Between that and the “that’s not what I call good money” bit, I’m completely put off by her as a person.

    Add the rest of her arguments over how historical accuracy doesn’t matter when writing historicals and gee, she’s lost at least me as a reader, along with anyone else I might have recommended her to. Word of mouth works to the benefit or detriment of writers.

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  • Lauren Dane
    May 23
    4:33 pm

    Oh and a point that I forgot to make earlier – the median HOUSEHOLD income in the US (meaning it’s the average of two employed people according to the census bureau) is $41 thousand dollars.

    So, correct me if I’m wrong, but one person earning 60K a year is, simply by applying actual fact, much above the average single earner (22K). I mean, I don’t want to confuse the argument with actual facts or anything, but there you go.

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  • Anonymous
    May 23
    4:43 pm

    How does Jaid Black look bad at all?

    A professional business person at the helm of a multi-million dollar company calling someone a pickle in a public forum? To me, that makes her look petty.

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  • Tara Marie
    May 23
    4:43 pm

    How does Jaid Black look bad at all?

    I thought the “Gherkin” comment was Karen’s. Coming from Karen it would have been a funny snarky thing, but coming from Ms. Black while she’s defending her company and correcting someone’s misinformation it’s different.

    At that point, LLG looked clueless, but Ms. Black looked petty. Of course, LLG, hasn’t kept her mouth shut and now, she’s got a foot stuck in it.

    …sometimes taking the high road is effing overrated. I would agree, but when there are readers who already think EC puts out porn, maybe taking the high road would have won her some new fans. I’m not a if you have nothing good to say… person, but sometimes, less is more.

    And, Karen, once again you’re right, she does come across as arrogant, but unfortunately, it’s probably true, if my husband only took home $1,500 a month, I’d be working or we’d lose the house.

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  • Tara Marie
    May 23
    4:53 pm

    PS…

    Ms Black does a much better job taking LLG to task here

    And she’s a snarky, but keeps the high road with the “facts”.

    ReplyReply


  • Anonymous
    May 23
    4:56 pm

    Not to be terribly snarky (and knowing very little about Ms. Guhrke’s publishing history) but I don’t see how she can possibly make over $60K a year with such a small backlist.

    Signed: An Author who averages around $80K a year but has at least 3 books out annually in either single title or category format

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  • Karen Scott
    May 23
    4:56 pm

    “A professional business person at the helm of a multi-million dollar company calling someone a pickle in a public forum? To me, that makes her look petty.”

    What? and a big name NYT author talking shit is what? Sign of intelligence on earth? I think not.

    I think Jaid and her millions are at the point where actually, they don’t have to take shit from anyone, much less a woman who doesn’t actually know what she’s talking about. LLG made a cock of herself, and Lydia Joyce nicely exposed her ignorance.

    The funny thing is, I was considering picking up The Marriage Bed and a couple of her other books, because I’d heard good things about her writing. She can kiss my pennies goodbye now.

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  • Anonymous
    May 23
    4:58 pm

    What? and a big name NYT author talking shit is what? Sign of intelligence on earth? I think not.

    I never defended LLG. Ever.

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  • Jane
    May 23
    5:00 pm

    My designating LLG as an author behaving badly is making an assertion not based on fact. Much like EB made the assertion that all romantica was porn even though she hadn’t ever read any of it. But later posts then go on to insult most of working America. Her funeral.

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  • Tara Marie
    May 23
    5:21 pm

    ah, Jane, don’t you know for the uninformed perception is fact.

    She can kiss my pennies goodbye now.

    Her funeral.

    Another one bites the dust. You’d think after the last few weeks authors would learn to keep their mouths shut–LOL.

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  • Kristie (J)
    May 23
    7:28 pm

    I’ve been following along with this thread since it first started the other day in fascination. IMHO Lydia Joyce is looking real good, Jaid Black is looking pretty good (although the pickle remark while good for a bit of a laugh) was a bit of a low blow I thought, and in this debate between the three authors Ms. Guhrke comes out in third place. Which is such a pity because her earlier books (at least when she was ‘hungrier’) are pretty damn good.

    And a bit OT – what IS it about all these author train wrecks lately???

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  • Kristie (J)
    May 23
    7:32 pm

    And I forgot to say

    Whooot Karen – you really got things stirred up with your column didn’t you *evil grin*
    And just think what we might have missed if they had posted a new column today?

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  • Karen Scott
    May 23
    10:34 pm

    Kirstie, I think it’s fascinating watching authors dig themselves into holes.

    LLG just asked Jaid Black to prove that she makes lots of money. She wrote:

    “I’m “wrong”? Fine. Scan your royalty statements and post them here and PROVE IT. Otherwise, we only have your word of what you make, don’t we? And lest you misunderstand me, I am NOT calling you a liar.”

    Jaid wrote back:

    “Why on EARTH would I scan in my royalty statements and make them public?? Seems a bit tacky, but hey, I’ll post my accountant certified income tax return if you’ll post yours. Fair is fair, after all. If I have to be tacky, so do you. Otherwise all I have is your word to go on that you make more money than me. (Not that I’m calling you a liar.)”

    I tell ya, it’s fascinating to watch one woman make a tit of herself, not just once, but twice. And on the same message board too.

    Jane, LLG definitely made it into the authors behaving badly pot.

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  • Eve Vaughn
    May 23
    10:56 pm

    Wow, this conversation has definitely gotten out of hand.

    ReplyReply


  • Tara Marie
    May 23
    10:58 pm

    It’s officially down right ugly over there and LLG definitely belongs on the authors behaving badly list.

    ReplyReply


  • Kristie (J)
    May 23
    11:23 pm

    It’s a train wreck where the cars keep piling up isn’t it?
    I’m thinking the plug will be pulled anytime now.
    You have to feel bad for Laurie.
    Also I found it kind of ironic that LLG says no wonder authors don’t post there when she is into it with another author!?!?!
    Why the heck is she pulling fans into her little hissy fit?

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  • Jaid Black
    May 24
    4:47 am

    Although some people refuse to believe it, I really did not misspell the woman’s name on purpose!! I swear, ON MY CHILDREN’S LIVES, I never even heard of this LLG before her posts. Lets face it: her last name is difficult to spell after a single glance. Hell I still don’t know it hence my use of LLG. Also, I happen to like pickles so I wouldn’t have called her one on purpose. (Okay now THAT was snarky.)

    Anyway, I’ve let my blood pressure spike too high over this ordeal so I’m letting it go. Karen, I loved your article. You go girl!

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  • Lori
    May 24
    5:06 am

    Holy cow – you go to work for a couple days and look what you miss! Sheesh!

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  • Amie Stuart
    May 24
    1:50 pm

    I’ve heard it said that the average published author can’t quit their day job (at least starting out?). If I made 60k a year writing, you can bet my writer’s butt that I’d be writing full time.

    *Shaking head*

    Jaid…you go girl!
    Karen loved the article!

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  • Harlot
    May 24
    5:20 pm

    What is happening to authors lately? Is the heat finally getting to people? It’s embarassing they’re acting this way.

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  • Solaine
    May 24
    5:52 pm

    What an interesting topic, I’ve never given two shits about the RITA (and I never will) but it’s always fun to watch some shit go down, it’s like a bad reality tv show, this going back and forth between LLG and Jaid Black.

    Anyway I wanted to say I thought Rachel Gibson’s response to your post was interesting, Karen, and I thought you had a good response. It always fascinates me how much this romance community is oftentimes about authors and wannabe authors trying to break into the game. When readers who don’t have an incentive to kiss an author’s ass comment on the nepotism in the business, they’re called to ask and told that “authors really are honest and judge fairly”. Pfffffttt is all I have to say about that.

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  • azteclady
    May 24
    10:36 pm

    Why on earth would anyone give in to the need of finishing shooting one’s foot off? Check out LLG’s “A final clarification” over at AAR for a rather sad example.

    Oh and Karen? Thank you again, so much, for writing that column! Drama queen tantrums and erudite discourse–you go, woman!

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  • Dylan
    May 25
    10:47 pm

    LOL, this was great fun to read…I’m embarrassed for LLG. What’s with all the cat fights lately?

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