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I think more people like Hillary, than we think. Well, either that or more people see her as the lesser of the two evils.

By the way, just how old is John McCain anyway?

72 Comments »


  • rae
    February 6
    10:11 pm

    Most opinion polls say 50% of the population hate HC. It appears that it isn’t just republicans that this 50% extends to. HC has won/is projected to win less states than Obama. However she’s won some big states with lots of votes but still some of those votes have been close (50.2 to 49.1 for example), so she hasn’t necessarily got that many more votes than obama. Now considering HC was the favourite going into this thing for at least a year I wouldn’t assume more people like her than we think. If more people liked her then she would be leading by the margins McCain has. I think McCain is 70 or something. His Mom looks pretty spritely considering the age of her son.

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  • I rather liked Obama’s comment that Hillary won’t necessarily get the people who voted for him, but her supporters would vote for Obama. I think he’s right.

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  • Diane V
    February 6
    10:39 pm

    I for one can’t stand Hillary or Bill. She sets feminism back a thousand years by tolerating Bill’s affairs — get a divorce for cripes sake!

    In fact, I love the bumper sticker that’s out that says:
    Don’t vote for Monica Lewinsky’s Ex-Lover’s Wife!

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  • I learned that while Hillary Clinton is really talented at tossing insinuations from the hip she can’t memorize a speech to save her life – even one that’s nearly a word-for-word borrowing of one Mr. Obama had previously given!

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  • KCfla
    February 6
    10:41 pm

    FYI- McCain is 71. His mother is 95.

    And I think when it all boils down, whichever one is the Democratic candidate will get the support of the Democrats. JMHO here- but we ( as in us Dems) DON’T want another Republican in the White House. No.Matter.What.

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  • I too think that whoever wins will get the votes needed. But if it’s a close vote against McCain in the election, then I think Obama stands a better chance then Hillary, because she won’t carry as many as Obama’s supporters as he will her’s.

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  • I’m sorry to bring the intelligent comments to a screeching stop…but isn’t he just GORGEOUS! Damn, the man is hot.

    Sorry. Couldn’t help it.

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  • This has been the most interesting political race since I’ve been old enough to vote. I love it.

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  • No more politics. Please, mommy, make it stop.

    All day, every day, it’s all I hear. Go out with my friends, and what do they talk about? Get to class, and what do we talk about? Turn on the tv and…you get the point.

    KJ

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  • eggs
    February 6
    11:29 pm

    Hillary is like hot mustard, folks either like her or hate her so much that they can’t even begin to understand what others see in her. From an outsider’s perspective, it seems that Obama would make a better President than Hillary. He seems rational and intelligent and capable of getting stuff done without polarizing people like she does. Here’s a blog posting from 2006 about what he’d actually tried to achieve already as a senator up till then: http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2006/10/barack_obama.html.

    BUT I honestly think too many Americans are too racist to actually vote for a black man for President, no matter what they say outside the polling booth, so I don’t think Obama can actually win the Presidential election, even if he can win the Democratic nomination. I hope we get a chance to see, but either way I think they are both great candidates.

    My question is: will people be comfortable voting for a smoker (Obama is one)? I think it says curious things about the man’s mental processes that he can be so smart and yet continue to do such a dumb thing.

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  • I learned that I’m seriously dreading this year.

    I hate election years with a passion. Too many smear campaigns and every time I change a channel, there’s a political ad.

    glum sigh.

    Obama’s holding his own from what I can tell. Good for him~I like his attitude and the way he carries himself.

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  • Nicole
    February 6
    11:59 pm

    I’m in the minority- I don’t care for Obama at all. I didn’t care for him before he became Oprah’s darling and I darn tooting stopped caring for him when Oprah decided to endorse him.

    I have asked some Obama supporters why they are voting for him and the answer is either because he is black or he isn’t a Clinton- I for one think that is so wrong.

    What ever happen to voting for someone based on the issues and where the candidate thoughts are on solving some of our outstanding issues like the economy, health care, the war, social security- the list goes on.

    But hey- it is just my opinion!

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  • I hate her, does that help? LOL! It’s not about her allowing Bill to cheat setting back feminism–do you KNOW how many women keep philandering husbands in the upper echelon of society?–it’s more that she and her husband are well mated.

    I never trusted him, I REALLY never trusted her. Every president is going to have conflict and controversy. I just don’t understand why people find it so easy to forget that the Clintons were constantly embroiled in accusations of screwing someone, some way or another.

    On a personal level, I’ve never gotten the feeling that she’d put her country’s interests in front of her own, which is what I look for in a leader. I actually do get that feeling from Obama and there’s no arguing that McCain feels that way.

    As for his smoking, lol, better a heavy smoker than a heavy drinker. Actually, that image DOES make him sexy, lol. Smoking doesn’t effect my vote. Bullying liberalism, such as HC commits regularly, does.

    The funny thing is, I’m watching the Democratic race avidly, but I’m not remotely a Democrat. If Obama were to get the Nomination, I’d most likely have a hard decision on my hands. If HC…it’s not even a question.

    Dee

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  • kis
    February 7
    12:13 am

    Speaking as a Canuck:

    Don’t like Hillary, not in love with Obama. Is it okay for a mostly liberal-minded person to hope McCain gets in? I mean, I’ve thought for a loooong time that he was the only sane choice in the Republican camp. If I had to pick one person that could lead and not make half of America angry and miserable, it’s probably that guy.

    As for the Dems, I like Obama better than Hillary, but oddly, I’d feel better if she wins. Does that make sense?

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  • Bonnie L.
    February 7
    12:48 am

    Quite frankly, Hillary had her time in office. She was the most politically active first lady I think we’d ever had. She made the position of first lady into a power position and nobody voted her into it. I was a mostly a kid during the Clinton administration, but I remember the jokes about who the real president was.

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  • Sam
    February 7
    1:00 am

    I don’t think Hillary has set feminism back, but I really fear she WOULD if elected.

    As someone pointed out, she has made enemies on both sides of the fence. I really doubt that IF she was elected she would be able to be much, if ANYTHING, accomplished, too many people dislike her and would refuse to support her.

    IF she gets elected and THEN does a horrible job, every ‘women can’t do what men do’ believer will point to her and say “SEE” (never mind Margaret Thatcher and any other lady leaders). That will set women back way more than accepting a philandering spouse.

    Sam

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  • Shelby
    February 7
    1:10 am

    My cousin worked in the White House when Hilary was first lady. I could tell you some tales that would stand your hair on end. This has nothing to do with political views…as an individual, she’s abhorrent to me. I could never vote for someone eaten up with rage and desperate ambition. But this is a very personal opinion and I respect everyone’s point of view.

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  • JMHO here- but we ( as in us Dems) DON’T want another Republican in the White House. No.Matter.What.

    McCain is actually pretty liberal and–dare I say it–might even be more liberal than Clinton.

    * ducking tomatoes *

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  • Nah, I can live with that. McCain at least can EXPLAIN his views. Gotta appreciate that. I dislike power right wingers as much as I do over the top leftists. My leader needs to be someone intimately acquainted with reason.

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  • Well, this is an interesting topic. Bob and I watched this stuff last night and we were pretty shocked to see how in some states Obama won by a landslide over Hillary and vice versa. We were expecting it to be much closer. I won’t tell who I’d vote for if I voted democratic. Loose lips sink ships and all that… because I AM voting democratic. Republicans SUCK great big hairy ones. Just my opinion and doesn’t amount to much but one vote anyway… so don’t beat me up. *G*

    BUT I will tell you this… if I HAD to vote republican, it would NOT be for McCain. He’s got more wrinkles than a freaking elephant. The dude is too old. Way too effing old. I would have to say my republican choice would be Romney. I like him… for a republican. *shrug*

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  • I think any of the top three candidates on either side would be an improvement over the fruitcakes we have now. They can string together coherent sentences and appear to have functioning intellects. I haven’t been able to watch more than a few seconds of the “resident” on TV ever since December 2000. There is such a wrongness to that man. ::shudder::

    I’d be happy with either Obama or Clinton in office. I would’ve preferred Edwards due to his economic policies, but with him out of the race, I voted for Obama yesterday and was very pleased with how things turned out here in Georgia. In November, I’ll vote for the Democrat, whoever it is.

    Of all the Republicans running this year, I like McCain the best. I used to have a lot more respect for him, but when he sucked up to the Bushites after they screwed him over in South Carolina in 2000, I just could not look at him the same way anymore.

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  • Well results coming in suggest plenty of people like Hillary. Whether she wins or not her support base is pretty substantial. I’d vote to her if I could. But I just live here and pay taxes. No voting for me.

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  • azteclady
    February 7
    3:10 am

    Come eat the popcorn with me, emily.

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  • Actually I think what last night’s vote taught us was Hillary doesn’t have it in the bag like most people thought she would in the beginning. She used to have a huge lead in the polls against Obama but he’s basically caught up and Obama fever is spreading. Believe it or not Obama’s biggest supporters are white males. I’m sure race and gender play a role in some people’s decision, but when it comes to politics, most people will vote down party lines. Interestingly enough, now that Edwards is out the race, it looks like a lot of his followers are throwing their support behind Obama, which makes me believe he just might pull it off.

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  • Super Tuesday taught me that a LOT of people I know that don’t talk about politics will talk about THIS race.
    Frankly, I love it.
    Young voters are paying attention.
    Apathetic voters are waking up.
    History is being made.
    What’s not to like?

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  • BTW, Ann Coulter says that if it comes down to McCain and Clinton, she’d vote Clinton.

    Now I’m scared.

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  • Interestingly, I watched the debates with avid interest to see where they stood apart on the actual issues – all personalities aside. Here’s an interesting piece that was part of my son’s homework last night: http://minnesota.publicradio.org/projects/ongoing/select_a_candidate/poll.php?race_id=13 – based on the issues alone, it tells you which candidate you are most closely aligned with. It was quite quite enlightening..

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  • linda
    February 7
    6:06 am

    As an aussie watching all of this, I am fascinated. Our election campaign here ran for six weeks, I can’t imagine putting up with it for months and months. I hope Hillary gets in, and deals with the health care issue. All I really know about Obama is that Oprah supports him. btw, I think it’s fantastic for the US, that the two opponents are a woman and a black man. Woo hoo.

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  • loonigrrl
    February 7
    7:22 am

    The one thing I love about Obama is his speech making abilities. Wow, can he talk! And really inspire people! I mean, he’s SO good that you don’t notice how little he’s actually saying. For example: the war in Iraq. What does he say there? Pull out, pull out- without addressing how he’ll deal with the consequences of an immediate pull out. Sure it sounds good- I never wanted us in Iraq, either, but I want a President who tells us HOW we’re going to pull out, and a President who understands the risks of pulling out rather than a President who plays upon this highly emotional issue without backing it up with facts.

    . . . Then I listen to Hillary’s speeches, and let’s be honest: she’s really not that good. She’s always looking down at her notes, always a little stilted, and too formal. And yeah, her facial expressions are a little scary, at times. But you know what? When she talks it’s more than just “Yes, we can!” She actually talks about the issues. She’s been there, or at least close enough to know what the job entails. I feel much more comfortable entrusting her to the job, knowing she’d be a capable leader.

    Is she power hungry? Yes. Is she ambitious? Yes. But who among the candidates is not? Why do we attack Hillary for being ambitious and power hungry when we would never say that about the men? Because she’s a woman? Talk about a double standard! I know Obama supporters rush to claim that he’s the opposite in that respect, but come on! He wants to be the President of the frackin’ United States! Who aspires to that role who isn’t ambitious?

    That being said . . . if Obama’s in the general election, I’ll probably vote for him. I’ll definitely study McCain in a little more depth, but I can’t see myself crossing party lines.

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  • I’m most closely aligned with Obama, but I wish he’d change his stance on the mortgage crisis. I don’t like bailing out greedy people (lenders) and stupid people (borrowers who refused to live within their means). I can’t feel sorry for people who make six figures and still can’t afford to pay their mortgage.

    Oh, if only I could vote in the US.

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  • kis
    February 7
    7:44 am

    The immediate pull-out in Iraq thing always makes me think of that toddler who got his toothbrush lodged in the back of his throat, right next to some major blood vessels. Sure, the toothbrush shouldn’t be there, but you don’t just yank the fucker out and hope for the best, either…

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  • laura
    February 7
    7:48 am

    I’ve just got to say that I hope voters make their minds up because of a candidate’s stand on issues, and their previous voting history.

    Our country is at war; we have a recession looming; our educational, health, and human services are at low points-this is an extremely important election. I’m more concerned with what Hillary could do as president than what she did while Bill was president; I’d rather know what Obama plans to do that how many cigarettes he smokes. McCain, or Huckabee-I want to know their stand on the war, on our basic civil rights at home.

    I want to know who the lesser of evils will be.

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  • bettie
    February 7
    9:22 am

    Put me in the camp for “Don’t Like Hillary.” I don’t like her policies, I don’t like her Rovian campaign tactics, or the way she tries to play both the seasoned politico and the victim. If she gets elected, I think she’ll be every bit as divisive as George W was in his first term.

    I know plenty of Republicans who will get behind Obama–I know several who’ve quit the Repubs, and put their money where their mouths are by sending Obama a check.

    Personally, I think Obama has a better chance to beat McCain than Clinton, and here’s why: If Clinton got the nom, I’d seriously consider voting McCain–and the only reason I wouldn’t do it automatic is because I hate McCain’s war policy.

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  • Why do we attack Hillary for being ambitious and power hungry when we would never say that about the men?

    My issues with Hillary have nothing to do with ambition or power. It doesn’t even have much to do with her politics, although I really don’t think she says all that much. She talks around or evades, but I don’t see her addressing.

    I don’t like how she carries herself, but more, I have issues placing my trust in a woman who didn’t have the self-respect to stand up for herself when her husband made a huge, public mockery of her. Boils down to respect for me and I can’t respect her.

    The stand by your man bit works for a song, but in real life, I have a harder time with it.

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  • I will not vote Republican until they get out of bed with the religious right. I can no longer in good conscience vote for people who take money from groups that want people like my daughter and me either pregnant, closeted, “cured,” or dead.

    McCain’s record is consistantly anti-woman and anti-gay.

    Clinton’s positions are much too right-wing for my taste (health care), or they are too intrusive (education). Obama scares me by supporting “ex-gays.”

    But in the end I support Clinton, because she knows how to work the Washington system. Obama will make a fine VP, which would give him the chance to learn. He’s a single term Senator who has spent it all running for president.

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  • I’m just not a fan of the Clintons. I think they have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt through action what they are willing to do to get what they want, how easily they will sell out, even each other to fulfill their personal (sometimes transient) desires and how little they care about anyone but themselves. To me the only stand either of them have been clear about is their drive to feed their egos and their pocketbooks. Pretty much, I have no respect for either of them and would find Hilary quite a repulsive offering on the ballot. So while I don’t know who I will vote for, I do at least know who I will not vote for, ever. No matter who the other choice is and no matter what their position is on anything.

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  • Barbara B.
    February 7
    2:08 pm

    Shelby said-
    ” I could never vote for someone eaten up with rage and desperate ambition. But this is a very personal opinion and I respect everyone’s point of view.”

    If you’ve ever voted in an American presidential election you already HAVE voted for someone eaten up with rage and desperate ambition.

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  • KCfla
    February 7
    2:47 pm

    JMHO here- but we ( as in us Dems) DON’T want another Republican in the White House. No.Matter.What.

    McCain is actually pretty liberal and–dare I say it–might even be more liberal than Clinton.

    * ducking tomatoes *

    My problem with McCain is- he’s flat out stated that he doesn’t know much about the economy. Yes, he’s well versed in international issues, but right now we need someone in office that can handle BOTH issues. With our country sliding towards a recession- that just scares the heck out of me. That and his war politics just writes him out of the running for me- sorry!
    * puts tomatos back in fridge *

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  • sallahdog
    February 7
    3:29 pm

    what I care about are results, I don’t give a shit about who is fucking who, or if someone smokes or if someone is a bitch behind closed doors… All I know is this, George W Bush and his republicans Squandered a huge surplus to give us some of the worst deficits ever seen , is giving a tax cut that would be nice, but frankly we can’t afford, is funding a war that has killed 600,000 people so far (deaths on both sides) fought based on LIES that he and his cronies told….

    So yeah… I would vote for that bitch Hilary even though she forgave her cheating sumbitch husband because dammit, I am sick of the path we are on….

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  • So yeah… I would vote for that bitch Hilary even though she forgave her cheating sumbitch husband because dammit, I am sick of the path we are on….

    Dude, I am so with Sallahdog on this one.

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  • kis
    February 7
    5:10 pm

    You guys are so lucky. If you absolutely couldn’t stomach Clinton or Obama, you could vote McCain in and still enjoy a Democratic majority government. In Canada, you vote for the party you want, and then you’re stuck with whoever they decide gets to be in charge. The guy who gets to be prime minister is some shmuck who was only elected by a minute fraction of Canadians. That just pisses me off.

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  • azteclady
    February 7
    5:23 pm

    I’m with loonigrrl pretty much right down to the end.

    Shiloh, I understand your reservations regarding the marital situation of the Clintons. However… how many outstanding political leaders throughout History, all around the world, had a far worse domestic/marital record than Hillary? Off the top of my head, I’ll say “most.” Being adulterous cheaters didn’t seem to affect their performance as leaders of their respective nations, did it?

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  • azteclady
    February 7
    5:25 pm

    An interesting article on our perception of women, double standards, and other stuff:
    http://www.womensmediacenter.com/ex/020108.html

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  • The only thing I learned from Super Tuesday: I got a crush on Obama.

    B to the A to the R-A-C-K-O-B-A-M-A

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  • Robin
    February 7
    6:13 pm

    Azteclady, Thanks so much for posting the link to that Morgan article. I find the Hillary-hate more and more disturbing, and I’m glad to see others do to.

    As for how I feel about HC because of how she handled her husband’s infidelity, how can we really know what drives different women to make different choices, and who says that leaving Bill really would have been the best decision for Hillary, or for Chelsea, for that matter. We know so little of what their marriage really entails. Maybe it’s having friends who are older than I am and who have been married for more than thirty years, but IMO the longer you’ve been married, the harder it is to know exactly what you should and will do given any situation — outside something like child molestation, of course. What about all the other first women who stayed with their cheating husbands, from Jackie O. to Eleanor R.? I’m afraid if I went down that road I’d have no one to vote for, lol.

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  • GrowlyCub
    February 7
    6:54 pm

    I did the Minnesota poll and the best fit was Gavel, who I had never heard of before the primaries started and who isn’t running any longer, next was Hillary and quite a few points behind Obama. Guess that makes me a Democrat. Too bad I don’t get to vote, me legal alien, me! :)

    I find it very interesting that so many people consider Obama a good speaker and a “uniter” since to me it seemed like he was the one playing the divisive race card time and time again. Also, he has the same smug expression on his face as the current resident and that alone turns me off completely.

    I was glad to see that it wasn’t just his attitude that didn’t jive with me, but his politics weren’t the best fit either. So nice to have our prejudices confirmed, grin.

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  • ” Being adulterous cheaters didn’t seem to affect their performance as leaders of their respective nations, did it?

    If I could appreciate anything else she said, it’s possible I could look beyond the marital thing…possible, not likely, though.

    Regarding double standards…. heh… weeeeelllll… maybe I expect better from women. Nah. That’s not it. I wouldn’t have much positive to say if it was a man placed in HC’s shoes. It’s a sticking point for me, and not likely one I’ll move past. If I liked her politics or her personality, or anything about her, it might be easier to move past it.

    But…well, I don’t.

    I’m seriously pushing for Obama.

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  • As for how I feel about HC because of how she handled her husband’s infidelity, how can we really know what drives different women to make different choices, and who says that leaving Bill really would have been the best decision for Hillary, or for Chelsea, for that matter.

    I can’t know that, and I don’t particularly need to know or want to know. She’s entitled to make whatever choice she wishes, but the choices she made damaged my opinion of her.

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  • azteclady
    February 7
    7:05 pm

    Like emily and GrowlyCub, I can’t vote, so perhaps my participation in discussions like this is truly meaningless, but hey! It’s a free intrawebs! (until Karen kicks my ass to the curb, at least).

    Following the link from Robin Morgan’s piece to the transcript of HRC’s speech at the 4th World’s Conference on Women, I find plenty to like, such as:

    “Women are the primary caretakers for most of the world’s children and elderly. Yet much of the work we do is not valued — not by economists, not by historians, not by popular culture, not by government leaders.

    “At this very moment, as we sit here, women around the world are giving birth, raising children, cooking meals, washing clothes, cleaning houses, planting crops, working on assembly lines, running companies, and running countries.

    “Women also are dying from diseases that should have been prevented or treated. They are watching their children succumb to malnutrition caused by poverty and economic deprivation. They are being denied the right to go to school by their own fathers and brothers. They are being forced into prostitution, and they are being barred from the band lending office and banned from the ballot box.

    “Those of us who have the opportunity to be here have the responsibility to speak for those who could not.

    “As an American, I want to speak up for those women in my own country—women who are raising children on the minimum wage, women who can’t afford health care or child care, women whose lives are threatened by violence, including violence in their own homes.

    “I want to speak up for mothers who are fighting for good schools, safe neighborhoods, clean air, and clean airwaves; for older women, some of them widows, who have raised their families and now find their skills and life experiences are not valued in the workplace; for women who are working all night as nurses, hotel clerks, and fast food cooks so that they can be at home during the day with their kids; and for women everywhere who simply don’t have time to do everything they are called upon to do each day.”

    Do I believe that every word she says–here or elsewhere–is meant from the bottom of her lily-white pure heart? No.

    But that’s true for every politician, at every level, in every country, now, in the past, and in the future. IMO, of course.

    (And I can disagree with you, Shiloh, and others, and still like YOU *wink*)

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  • B to the A to the R-A-C-K-O-B-A-M-A

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  • lol… Aztec, I don’t want or expect everybody to agree with me.

    The world would get very…very…very boring.

    :P

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  • Being adulterous cheaters didn’t seem to affect their performance as leaders of their respective nations, did it?

    Totally agree.

    Honestly, I don’t see why what these people do in their personal lives affect their political lives. (Unless, you’re a right-wing hypocrite who condemns all gays and then gets caught with his pants down with another man.)

    Frankly, most Europeans–that I know, anyway–don’t understand this quirk of American politics. For instance, French presidents have a history of having mistresses. Sarkozy is the first French president I can remember who doesn’t have a mistress. Mitterrand had a daughter with his live-in mistress. And Chirac might as well have had a revolving door for his bedroom.

    IMHO, a government should be run like a business. You wouldn’t fire a CEO who increases your share price year after year just because he cheated on his wife. That’s a personal matter between husband and wife, not one for the shareholders. Shareholders won’t care about the matter unless his performance became negatively affected. Then they won’t care why he’s failing at his job, just that he’s failing and needs to be packaged off and replaced.

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  • Statistically the primaries are not going to hand victory to either now. It will come down to pure politics. A reasonable test of who will be able to play that game well in power, I think. (i.e. it may be a swamp but that ain’t gonna change any time soon).

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  • Mitt Romney is out.

    And it looks like Mike Huckabee is courting the VP spot for the Republicans.
    Pam Spaulding has an article on why this should scare the daylights out of any woman or minority religion.
    http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/06/our-worst-nightmare-hucka-vp/

    I remember when he ran his wife for Secretary of State while he was the Governor. That was too incestuous even for Arkansas politics.

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  • Barack plays the race card, so
    Hilary plays the gender card, while
    McCain will try to find some conservative cards to play.
    Everyone’s playing whatever card they can in this game.

    Me, I’m incensed that the “pundits” assumed I voted for Barack because he’s black, while they say white males voted for him because they want change. Cause you know, black women never think about the issues before they vote.

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  • Uh, go Ron Paul.

    :)

    And yo, Ralph’s wakin’ up and thinking ’bout joining the fun.

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  • Shirley
    February 8
    2:30 am

    I agree with Ann. LOL, maybe I’m more European of mind than American.

    To be blunt, I’ve voted in presidential elections for nearly sixty years. I heard my mother and grandmother talk about how lucky I was to get to vote at eighteen when my mother was nearly thirty and my grandmother in her fifties, so maybe my take on this is a bit different. I really and fully appreciate the right to vote because women I loved and respected didn’t always have it.

    And to be honest, Black American (men at least) have had the right to vote for a hell of a lot longer than women. So while Obama is an engaging and passionate candidate, I tire of the chatter about ‘time for a black man to lead’. Maybe it is, but personally, this old broad is most likely voting for the woman. Looking at this comment trail, I think we can all see how difficult it will be for a woman to win the race and lead this country. No blame or aspersions, but people’s opinions of her are ‘changed’ by her personal life. If one were to say that about a gay candidate, it’d be racist/bigoted/ungodly in the NON PC. But it’s okay to talk like that about HC. Puhleese, as my grandkids say so often.

    I don’t agree with any one candidate on all the issues. I’m not for legalizing the illegals that are here now. They need to get out and get in line like the thousands that try to immigrate here legally every year. And I don’t give two figs about the argument that the price of a head of lettuce will go up three dollars or ten or whatever. If the growers try to heft prices that high, they’ll be reminded about supply and demand real quick. I can grow lettuce for myself cheaper, I don’t need to buy it and a lot of my friends think the same way.

    I don’t agree with HC on the war. Obama either. I think we need a full and immediate withdrawl yesterday. The surge has given the Iraqis almost two years to get their shit together, but they haven’t. It’s time for us to leave and let them duke it out, so to speak. I don’t really care what the rest of the world thinks. Until we’re gone, they won’t bother to sort themselves out because we’re there to hold back the masses, and die, while they fuck about. I don’t think so.

    I agree it’s time for a change. And since firing the entirety of our government would, and let’s be honest, is probably the best solution, it isn’t going to happen. So I’ll vote for Hilary come November, should she win – the Dem either way- and I’ll pray that anyone really interested in change will do the same.

    Shirley

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  • sallahdog
    February 8
    1:35 pm

    Actually EMANCIPATED black men were accorded the vote in 1869… Of course even when all blacks were allowed to vote by law, they took their lives in their hands if they tried to, all the way into the 1950s and 60s in parts of the country….

    In parts of the country, like Wyoming, women were allowed to vote that same year with the whole country coming on board in 1920,mostly in response to WWI and the need for women to fill mens jobs in the workplace.Women finally had the power to push it through nationally…

    Women have always been patronized for voting, blacks were killed for voting… sooo.. I would say blacks had a tougher time for longer than women in this country on the voting issue… lol… just a little history lesson for today… I am always stunned when I see minorities or even women who say, I can’t be bothered to vote, people were beaten and even died, to give them the right… Its one I talk about constantly to my kids….

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  • sallahdog
    February 8
    1:56 pm

    And I don’t give two figs about the argument that the price of a head of lettuce will go up three dollars or ten or whatever. If the growers try to heft prices that high, they’ll be reminded about supply and demand real quick. I can grow lettuce for myself cheaper, I don’t need to buy it and a lot of my friends think the same way.

    not to pick on you, but the problem with Agriculture (we owned a farm till 2 years ago) is that prices, adjusted for inflation, are actually lower than they were 30 years ago… which means profit for growers is LOW, sometimes almost nonexistent with a lot of farmers continuing on because its a family tradition… In the 70s, the family(my husbands) began to get jobs off the farm in order to make ends meet, and we finally gave up the ghost a few years ago when suburban sprawl made it worth it, to sell… So what your really saying, if lettuce goes up 3 times what it is now, is that you won’t have the luxury of buying it grown in this country, because those lettuce growers will be out of business.. You will probably be buying lettuce grown in some 3rd world country,and bemoaning the fact that no one buys American anymore,….

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  • I don’t care if it is the right time for a black man to be President, or if it’s the right time for a woman to be President. I don’t care if a freakin’ alien was born on American soil (therefore eligible to run for President) and it was time for “it” to be President. I don’t care if it’s the right time to get a Democrat in the Oval Office. If I believe in what the person stands for, and that that person will do the best they can to bring their policies to life, then damn it I am going to vote for them no matter what their appearance. And as it stands right now, Barack Obama is my choice.

    I don’t see Hillary as being “bitchy” or power hungry because she is a woman. ANY CANDIDATE could be seen as power hungry. They’re trying to become the President of the United States for crying out loud, how more power hungry can you get? However, I don’t feel good about Hillary’s past. I also disagree with her stances. The differences between her and Obama are the differences between her and I.

    I don’t consider myself a Democrat or a Republican. Never have, never will. I am an American that is getting very pissed off at the state of the country and the inability for ALL politicians to work TOGETHER as Americans! And I believe that Obama, though he may not be able to do what he wants, truly believes in what he stands for. I believe he understands what most of us go through, as his book title states, “The Audacity of Hope”. I also agree with most everything that Obama wants to do. And I believe that because of his lack of experience (meaning less time to be corrupted by the bullshit that currently inhabits the Capitol Building) that he is going to change things, or at least work his ass off trying.

    On the lighter side, I find it interesting that there is a great discussion about American politics on a web site of a British citizen. ;)

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  • Is she power hungry? Yes. Is she ambitious? Yes. But who among the candidates is not? Why do we attack Hillary for being ambitious and power hungry when we would never say that about the men? Because she’s a woman? Talk about a double standard! I know Obama supporters rush to claim that he’s the opposite in that respect, but come on! He wants to be the President of the frackin’ United States! Who aspires to that role who isn’t ambitious?

    That! Is what bothers me most, we have women who judge her for that affair her husband had. Because despite how much we talk about feminism here in the US there are still people who would rather criticize her for not being a good wife or for not controlling his actions or being too ambitious or for seeking her own political career.

    Notice how everyone attributes her opinions to her husband?

    Obama reminds me of Carter. Nice guy and all that but not any real political experience to actually pull off any of his promises. Carter was also elected because he was a political outsider and was totally ineffective in office.

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  • I supported Ron Paul. If he decides not to run now as an Independent I will go with Obama.

    There are a number of reasons I’d never vote for Hillary Clinton, reasons which have to do with her husband. As for the idea she has been singled out for criticism because she’s a woman, I can’t buy that for a moment. I do believe, however, she’s every bit as unscrupulous as many, many male politicians who have met their rightful criticism in the media and fair doubt by voters. Ambition is a fine thing to have -whether you or male or female- but character is a much more pertinent quality.

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  • On the lighter side, I find it interesting that there is a great discussion about American politics on a web site of a British citizen.

    Sadly, American politics affects the entire world…as was and is still being shown by the current administration.

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  • Sadly, American politics affects the entire world…as was and is still being shown by the current administration.

    Yes, I am very aware of that. Just trying to tease Karen. Probably should have worded that differently.

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  • Karen Scott
    February 8
    7:58 pm

    On the lighter side, I find it interesting that there is a great discussion about American politics on a web site of a British citizen. ;)

    Aint it great though? So many interesting and polarised viewpoints.

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  • Karen Scott
    February 8
    7:59 pm

    Oh by the way, just in case I didn’t mention it earlier, I blame Gisele Bundchen for the state American politics is in.

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  • Someone needs to spank her for all the trouble she is causing lately. I will volunteer myself to by the spanker. ;)

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  • azteclady
    February 9
    1:28 am

    The poor *cough* *cough* the poor woman is going to get a complex.

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  • Yes, I am very aware of that. Just trying to tease Karen. Probably should have worded that differently.

    Scott, my apologies. And I knew you were teasing Karen. But Bush really gets my blood pressure rising and it’s hard for me not to jab at him.

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  • Well the whole presidential race has been all over the place this year. No clear winner yet :(

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  • No problems Ann. I know the feeling.

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  • Shirley
    February 11
    8:09 pm

    by sallahdog –

    “not to pick on you, but the problem with Agriculture (we owned a farm till 2 years ago) is that prices, adjusted for inflation, are actually lower than they were 30 years ago… which means profit for growers is LOW, sometimes almost nonexistent with a lot of farmers continuing on because its a family tradition… In the 70s, the family(my husbands) began to get jobs off the farm in order to make ends meet, and we finally gave up the ghost a few years ago when suburban sprawl made it worth it, to sell… So what your really saying, if lettuce goes up 3 times what it is now, is that you won’t have the luxury of buying it grown in this country, because those lettuce growers will be out of business.. You will probably be buying lettuce grown in some 3rd world country,and bemoaning the fact that no one buys American anymore,….”

    ROFL, no honey. I meant what I said. I’ll grow my own. Lettuce is a hearty plant, if you can keep the rabbits and dear away, and potting soil is cheap. I won’t buy lettuce at the market. And if a third world is providing the cheaper produce at the market, good for them.

    And I know all about farming. It wasn’t until the last couple of years that the farmers in Iowa, my home state, finally started to actually make good money – so to speak – thanks to the push for ethanol and bio-diesel. You make the start of a good point though. Why aren’t our farmers making money? Because the middle man, the major corps, and the public want to make as much as they can while spending as little as possible. We want cheap food, so our agricultural community often doesn’t make money on what they provide. And out of the little they do make, aside from upkeep on a farm, they have to pay disgusting amounts to shippers/trucking companies to get their product out to the world. Then the grocer has to pay too. And that gets passed on to the working man. Only mega-growers and corps get to make real money and that’s cause they don’t pay workers shit and they harvest several times what the average farmer can.

    Prime example: the minimum wage increase. It’s supposed to help all those people working for shit pay by getting them more money in the pocket. Except, it never does. Why? I don’t think I have to explain it, but in short it’s because businesses have to pay out more, so they charge more, in effect canceling out any benefit. If we had a government that said you can’t up your prices, you just have to deal with a smaller profit, maybe it would work. We’ll never know.

    Back to the politics, however, while I don’t agree with Scott’s choice, necessarily, I do agree with what he’s said about the political climate of the USA. I don’t care who gets in as long as they actually DO something to get this place back on track. I probably won’t be around for another twenty years, but I’ll tell you I’m praying I won’t be. The entire world is in turmoil, and as one who grew up during at least part of WWII, lived through both Korea and Vietnam, and the gas crisis of the seventies, I have this awful feeling that the shit is about to hit the fan. LOL, I wouldn’t be surprised if I woke up next month or next year and found that I couldn’t go to the docs because gasoline is not available, California and Florida are suddenly underwater, and the middle east has just launched a nuclear attack. That’s an extreme example, keep in mind I’m not saying I think it’ll happen that way. What I’m saying is I wouldn’t be surprised.

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