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DEP’s Debra Durham v Patti Rebmann: Round One

Friday, March 28, 2008
Posted in: Dark Eden Press, Debra Durham, e-book authors posting under the influence, e-pubbed authors behaving like fucktards?, Patti Rebmann AKA AP Miller

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I know you guys are just about done in with all the NCP shenanigans, but never fear my loyal readers, I bring you a new example of fucknuttery within E-Publand.

I received this e-mail a few hours ago:

Mesage posted to Dark Eden Authors group by Debra Durham today. Ms. Durham had previously emailed “Patti” AP Miller and threatened her with a law suit in regards to remarks “Patti” AP Miller had made to others on the Extasy group and in private emails to certain authors that Debra Durham’s illness was not real. These emails found their way to Debra Durham. Cat fight ensues.

You guys remember Patti Rebmann, AKA AP Miller right? What do you mean no! She was one of the crazies who emerged at the height of the Mardi Gras Publishing fiasco. Yeah, the batshit crazy one.

Waddaya mean which one?

*Ahem*

Anyway, here’s what Debra posted on her loop: Erm, you guys remember Debra right?

Anyway, this is a long old e-mail, so grab yourself some tea and popcorn, because you’re definitely going to need some refreshments. It may be necesssary for me to interpret now and then because as we know from old, Patti Rebmann’s strength doesn’t lie in her communication skills.

{Debra to her loop presumably}: I will post her first and second reply and then my response to her this morning…

1St message

Subject: My phone number
From: “Patti”

Date: Thu, March 27, 2008 9:57 pm
To: debra.durham@…
————————————————————————–I would rather we speak on the phone this is my number 702-629—- if you dont have long distance I will call you.

Patti

Erm.. I’m not sure why she wants Debra to call her either, so don’t ask me.

2nd Message

Subject: Re: Your posts and comments about Dark Eden Press
From: “Patti”

Date: Fri, March 28, 2008 4:19 am
To: “Debra DurhamWhat was said was taken out of context, illegally removed from a private author loop without permission, by AJ LLwelyn and RD Solange. If you read the rest of those posts you would have also seen that I mentioned I didn’t know who the owner was and that I felt very bad for her. I also had my opinions and I was entitled to them. I am an authority on cancer, been around it 23 years and had three members of my family stricken with it, and to clarify your insults, I am an “Office Administrator” not a secretary.

My head hurts already.

So with my experience in the field of medicine specifically oncology, it does make me an expert of this illness and not just cervical cancer. I am sure I would have quite a lively and very detailed conversation with your radiologist on the subject. And for the record you cannot have radiation and chemo at the same time…you can have them seperately. My only hope for you is that you can find an alternative in holistic medicine…have you researched that?

Christ on a cracker. Is she really claiming to be an expert on oncology, or did I read that wrongly?

I also never personally attacked you, your company or your authors, nor did I insult you, so an apology will not occur. My co-author and publisher have been following this very closely as well as several collegues, and now so will my team of attorneys who will find your letter along with the posts I wrote in their fax machines in the morning.

Crap, I missed something, why is Patti mentioning her lawyer?

It apears you have black mailed me and made threats to my own personal career as well as my co-author who never did a thing to you, I would call that libel and slander on my own part and his as well. ( If I don’t receive your apology by 5pm Sunday my next letter will be to your publisher ( the loop I spounted off on? I speak very clearly…I don’t spout) And after that it will be to every blog I can think of that would love to have the chance at you again…) Umm blackmail… Slander and of course libel. I never said anything about your company, and never mentioned your name because I never knew it until you sent me this letter. So honestly you have no case…I am the one who does.

Erm, am I the only one totally confused here? Who’s saying what, and more importantly, why?

I am sorry you have this illness. I was diagnosed with the very same when I was 26, but was cured with cryosurgery, it wasn’t plesant. It’s hell and something I would never wish on anyone.

You did mention you had cervical cancer in your post at Coffeetime, maybe you need to go back and read what you have been writing. I can show you the link. (“And for one thing Ms. Page, I never said what type of cancer I had to anyone” ) This was in your post dated March 24th in Coffeetime…”It started as “cervical cancer” 10 years ago and at which time has spread to other places”

As far as what I posted I am entitled to my opinion although some may feel otherwise. I wish you all the best in your treatments, but I do not feel that I have personally offended you nor did I attack you. I don’t know you at all. It was you who attacked me.

God, this woman needs to learn to write coherently.

If you want verification of what I did say you can ask my publisher and attorneys to show you the posts, dated in yahoo mail and on the author list. I am sure both my co-author and publisher would be more than happy to speak with you regarding this issue. As long as you feel up to it in your delicate condition. As a matter of fact we were just discussing taking in some of your authors at Extasy if they wanted to submit. So I would imagine I’m not such a bad person after all.

Erm, is she an editor at Extasy or something? She sounds like she has the power to take on authors. Somebody tell me it aint so.

As far as your accusations that I posted on other loops, well, that’s impossible since I only posted within my own author loop and made two posts to the above mentioned authors to their own private emails with explanations of what I meant by pity sales…Mind you I was not the only one who saw it this way. There are many others and they are still talking about it and researching your background to make sure this isnt a scam.

Subtle as a brick huh? *g*

If you have proof of the posts I made in other loops please show me, I would like to see that. If they are there I know for a fact that they were put there by both RD and AJ..so they can feel free to challenge me at any time. And they can also explain to our publisher why they took it out of a loop that was confidential. {K: Do these people never learn, nothing on a public forum is ever private, dammit!}

I only heard through the grapevine that there were authors taking donations for you. So therefore I didn’t have the entire story. Your insults upon me are unprofessional as well. I never once attacked you on a personal level. I don’t expect that from you towards me. You have no clue who I really am and I am sure that if you did you would never attack me in this manner. {K: Anybody want to take that bet?}

To threaten that if I don’t apologize to you, your authors or the loop I am in, within a certain amount of time, by airing my posts on a blog, again will not bother me, and if you mean karen’s blog where they actually didn’t have anything nice to say about you not too long ago then I have no worries.

Hey, I’m special, she mentioned me by name, wake up Mr West!

Besides, Teresa Jacobs, former owner of Mardi Gras Publishing had green eyes back then and blamed me for the demise of her business and did everything she could to bring me down…”vengeance is karma” she said and it came around and bit her in the ass because I am still standing and very successful.

Teresa Jacobs had green eyes? Oh I get it, she means she was jealous of her. Dammit, that nearly tripped me up.

No one in that blog knew who I was until Teresa began to flame me. Everyone who knew her knew she was a liar and didn’t believe a word of it and I had a huge support system of people behind me because of that including e-publishers and NYC and still do and that list includes the authors who were with me at MGP who knew the truth.

Needless to say we all finally stopped Teresa from ever becoming published or opening up another scam operation. Thousands of people were around when Karen was trashing my good name {K: What?}…but did it effect me? Not in the least. I have no real use for blogs and don’t bother reading them. People make fun of others everyday it just goes to show you how stupid they really are.

God I’m exhausted.

I never had anything to do with MGP except as an author which was my biggest mistake. Not only was Teresa inexperienced in the publishing industry, but was highly jealous of our success so she did what she could to ruin it including doctoring my flawless manuscripts making me look like a real ass {K:*snicker*}…but it didn’t, it made us more popular and readers came out of the woodwork that we haven’t seen since the release of our first e-book several years back. It really doesn’t matter what people say about me in blogs. It just shows their ignorance and makes me shine…so if they want to post, knock themselves out. Where I am right now in my career won’t affect a thing.

She still has a career? Dude, who gave her a contract?

I literally had to open up a private yahoo group for the authors of MGP ( We still have it) to keep issues away from Teresa and that’s what pissed her off. She wasn’t MIA, she was stealing our royalties and knew everything that was going on. She claimed her two computers crashed..they didn’t and she had another working one in the house. She ran out of money.

Crap, when did we switch topics?

I made the same assumption with all the publishers that were closing this year alone so I’d hope you would understand the nature of my concerns yet once more for a publisher suddenly closing up shop. But I commend you for your bravery and the way in which you are doing this.

I smell back-tracking.

So you see why I felt this way about the situation. I was wrong in doing so and for that I will apologize, I never should have judged, but to apologize for my own personal opinion I will not. What I said was not a blatant attack on you, your company, or your authors, nor did it effect the closing of your company or the reputations of your authors. (I know some of your authors)…it was merely my own personal opinion which is exactly what your attorneys will explain to you. My opinions came after the fact…when it was announced that the company was suddenly closing. And for that I cannot be held responsible for.

Damn this conversation is confusing. Anybody figure out where Mrs Giggles is yet?

I do not wish you anything bad at all nor would I ever wish such a disease upon anyone. Things were said through the grapevine and you should know how they end up. If you want to accuse me of anything then accuse me of being compassionate because if this makes it into blogs, those posts will be placed in them for all to view and readers will make their own assumptions and read your accusations towards me as well. They will also read and see that I meant no harm and again, it was just my own personal opinion.

If you are so unsure about what I actually said, ask RD and AJ to show you the full emails I sent them so you will finally have some clarity on this issue and cease and desist any further harrassment, libel and defamation on my person, my co-author, publisher or career.

Defamation and libel? That’s heavy. *g*

It has already discontinued in our loop and only a few posted about it including my publisher.

Again I am sorry for your suffering. I would like to put this behind us and would like to stop my attorneys from filing against you. It just isn’t right, and I don’t feel it is something I wish to do, but if my career is threatened I have no choice. I don’t take kindly to idle threats.

She doesn’t take kindly to idle threats huh? I wonder if she ever goes back and reads what she writes? *g*

I don’t think with the way you are feeling right now, that you need to have one more issue to take care of while you are in treatments do you? Unlike some people I can afford to pay lawyers if I need to. And I can drag on a case for years. {she can drag on an e-mail too by the looks of things}

I hope you get through this, I honestly do. Your company has a future in the e-book world and you should find a way to keep it going. Not many publishers will publish outside the box and you offer those authors a place for their books. Surely your EIC can run things temporarily? Is there anyway you can continue to keep it open and have your authors hold off on the sales for a while, and possibly sell what they do have published with other houses until you are back on your feet? They seem loyal…it’s worth a shot.

Hey, is it me, or has the tone of the e-mail totally changed? Talk about doing a 360. She even confuses herself it seems.

I do wish you all the best and a speedy recovery…Chin up, take care, you will get through this God is with you. And I too will pray for you. If you want to chat I am here. You may find Ii am not the wicked witch of the west after all. As I am sure that you also are not.

Lone Huntress, Beyond the Looking Glass,
Management Training,Librarians Dont Get Married
Amelia, No More Roses for Lily, Poseidon’s Passion
www.Extasybooks.com…myspace.com/pattipaige {K:Wait a minute, she’s published by Extasy? Are they nuts?}

Bloody hell, that woman can rabbit on can’t she?

Anyway, Debra’s reply coming up:

MY (Debra) REPLY

I believe Ms. Page, that some of what you said was in an author loop, and some of it was said in private emails, so no there isnt anything illegal in anything. You posted on a loop, that makes it fodder for everyone that can get ahold of it.

Second, I do not know who AJ Llwelyn is but I do know RD, and it was not RD that I received this information from. In actuality, I received several emails forwarded to me from people I do not even know. {K: Funny how that happens, isn’t it?}

So because you have had three famil members stricken with cancer and you were a glorified secretary in an oncology office, that makes you a doctor now does it? Maybe you can come to Texas and cure me of cancer…Amen and Hallelujah sister.

Is it just me, or does this seem like a waste of energy?

As far as personal attacks…what exactly do you consider what you said about me and my company? One you offered an opinion as an ‘expert’ on a situation you one dont know anything about, and two you made statements that not only made me look bad, but made my company look bad. If my company didnt have an outstanding reputation and if it wasnt as upstanding as it was, you could have affectively ruined my authors chances anywhere else. I have the posts you wrote, I have the personal emails you sent. Yes I have also spoken to my lawyer so I know exactly what I am talking about thank you.

Nor did I blackmail you in any way. I said, you owe me and my authors an apology and I will do what is necessary to receive it. Nor did I make personal threats to your co writer, basically what I said was I am sure that your co writer will once again appreciate you running at the mouth and spouting out your ass. I am sure that is good for his career.

I’ll say it again, somebody gave Patti a contract?

And yes, I will notify your publisher if necessary, as is my right, considering you did some of this on their loop. You never mentioned my name? You didnt have to, you talked of my company, that includes me as the owner. You tried not only to make me and my company look bad, you made it look as if I was lying and trying to scam my customers. If your lawyer didnt tell you that sweetie, then you need a better lawyer.

All you did really Patti was make yourself look like an ass. For the simple reason that I do have a good reputation and so does my company. Not only that, but everyone remembers the ass you made of yourself last year.

We do remember, yes, but didn’t we pretty much decide she was cuckoo?

Also, I never made a post on coffeetime, nor have I ever. I have never even been in one of their chats. So I am not sure what exactly you are talking about here. Whatever post you are referring to was put up by someone other than me. DEP ended their relationship with CoffeeTime Romance months ago.

It may have been your personal opinion but you posted it in a public place as an ‘expert’ remember? Your opinion was that I was a liar and trying to scam people for more money before I closed. That makes it defamation of character unless you can prove that what you said is true.

Really, does anybody believe that Patti understands the written word? She can barely spell her own name.

Not only that, I highly doubt that any court is going to take you or your charges against me seriously considering the mess you made of yourself last year on your own blog and others.

Which by the way can be entered into evidence. Seriously Patti, you need a better lawyer.

After all that, I am surprised Extasy Books took you, I had more respect for them and expected better. Guess which company my book dollars will NOT be going to again?

Yes, I’m damned surprised that Extasy books took her too. What the f*ck were they smoking?

You proved yourself last year to be a liar and in need of some serious mental health help. My OPINION has not changed in the least since then, after all this.

You seriously did not think I actually expected to get an apology…people like you never do. You want to spout off about things you know nothing about, but hide behind others when your called on it. But that is ok Patti, because I know what people think of you and about you, especially after what you spouted about me and my company. The only damage you truly did was to yourself. You have a tendancy to do more damage to yourself than anyone else can do, and you keep proving it time and time again.

You think the sun’ll come out tomorrow? Just wondering…

See the problem with voicing your opinion in the manner you did, is that when a person and/or company has an impeccable reputation people pay attention. That reputation is something I have worked very hard at, the loyalty I have from my authors, I have worked my ass off for. So in trying to pick on me in the guise of ‘voicing your opinion’ you have only made yourself look bad. That on top of the reputation you earned yourself last year makes you look even worse.

Quit while your ahead sweetie, because you are only continuing the notion that you are a nutcase in serious need of an asylum.

Debra Durham
Dark Eden Press

“Quit whilst you’re ahead”? Shouldn’t that be quit whilst you’re behind

Anyway, nothing like a bit of girl on girl drama to get the juices flowing, but seeing as I only understood about fifty per cent of the conversation, I’m pretty sure I missed out on some good juice. *g*

How are you guys holding up?

Thanks to you-know-who for the e-mail.

65 Comments »


  • SHayne
    March 29
    12:25 am

    WTF? *blinks* I may need to read that multiple times before it makes sense? Will it make sense?

    Should I worry, cuz like I had a heart attack ten years ago, and one of these people has seven people in their family who have had heart attacks and can tell a fake one a mile away?

    Should I care?

    Should you care?

    Is this a circle jerk of care?

    ReplyReply

  • My eyes glazed early on, and there’s no way I’m trying to read that pile o’ crap again.

    But thanks for the popcorn, Karen :wink:

    ReplyReply


  • Nora Roberts
    March 29
    12:43 am

    Did this weird and utterly inarticulate woman actually say she believed Debra was faking cancer? And that she believes this because she once had cancer and is an office administrator–ergo a cancer expert (and apparently a cancer psychic as I can’t imagine she’s privvy to Debra’s medical records).

    Jesus, every time you think no one can sink any lower, they find another level of bad.

    ReplyReply


  • Jane
    March 29
    12:44 am

    I need a summary.

    ReplyReply

  • What Jane said.

    ReplyReply


  • Jane
    March 29
    12:51 am

    okay so Patti thinks that Deb is faking her cancer claim and Deb responds, despite having chemo and radiation, with a lawyer rattle of her own complete with misspellings and inappropriate use of “your”.

    ReplyReply


  • Indida
    March 29
    1:12 am

    Karen, I’m sorry but I can’t make it. I just can’t.

    Crazy cow for sure.

    An expert of oncology? Really? Then how has she never heard of CHEMORADIOTHERAPY?

    That is a combination of chemo (meds) with radiation. They use this approach before resorting to surgery.

    I’m not going to toss in some sob stories as proof. Anyone can ask a doctor or do a little searching and read all about it.

    Karen, you deserve a medal for sifting through this croc. Maybe you should add a little certificate of completion at the end as a reward for those who finish it.

    ReplyReply


  • Mary
    March 29
    1:25 am

    Okay, so what I could glean from all that (plus what I’ve seen elsewhere) is that Patti made some comments and opinions on various lists about how Debra’s closing because of her cancer might be an untruth, and she is using it to milk sympathy and make more money before she closes.

    Someone sent these posts to Debra who retaliated with a post back to Patti threatening her with a lawsuit if she didn’t apologize. Then Patti sent this interesting and LOOOOONG email back, telling her all about her cancer expertise, and bringing up MGP for some unknown reason. (And btw, she WAS an editor at MGP as well as holding several other positions) She ended her tirade with a threat of her own which Debra answered right back and as Karen said, thus began the cat fight!!!

    Why oh why do these people think that anything they are doing is professional and sensible????

    ReplyReply

  • Well Mary,

    After reading that, the above makes a little more sense.

    WOW!

    ReplyReply

  • Can someone give me the Coles Notes version?

    ReplyReply


  • KM
    March 29
    2:35 am

    What I find particularly amusing is that DEP did not, in fact, have a very good reputation. I constantly heard they were not recommended.

    ReplyReply


  • Mrs Giggles
    March 29
    2:36 am

    Debra Durham should have composed that email to Patti and then delete it instead of hitting that “Send” button because dealing with people like Patti Rebmann is useless and, as we’ve seen here, embarrassing when the whole thing becomes public.

    If Patti is contracted with Extasy, does this mean that there is chance that her librarian/group sex/community breeding program/let’s impregnate the neighbor’s daughters story with Mardi Gras get reprinted? I’m always curious about that one…

    ReplyReply

  • o_O
    Why do I feel like I was just transported back to eight grade?

    ReplyReply

  • Woooooooow. :shock:

    I can’t believe the gall of somebody to accuse a cancer patient of faking their illness. That’s just sick.

    ReplyReply

  • From WebMD

    Chemotherapy is used to shrink cervical cancer and decrease tumor growth. Chemotherapy may be used to treat later stages (stages II, III, and IV) of cervical cancer. It may be used alone or in combination with radiation (chemoradiation). Compared with radiation alone, chemoradiation improves survival.7 It is usually used as the primary therapy or after a hysterectomy.

    Other than that… I don’t really have much to add to this one. But I hope Debra concentrates her energy on getting better and not this mess.

    ReplyReply

  • Okay, I have to state something all authors know as fact.
    All publishers have author loops and once an author accepts a contract, they have the right to post to the author loop, but know that nothing ever posted on the author loop is ever to be removed and posted anywhere else.
    I just have one small question and that is what insensitive person would forward any private such note to a person who is supposedly so ill just to start a soap opera rolling?
    And why on earth would anyone want to keep it rolling by forwarding private letters between the two involved parties to a blog?
    As for eXtasy Books, it is a fine and upstanding company, which I would recommend to anyone. I have been with eXtasy since 2003 and have had no problems EVER.
    There are many dissatisfied authors across the net who will stop at nothing to try and hurt other authors and publishers.
    I think it is rather sad that blogs like this will try and blacken people’s names and make fun of them or a company with a good reputation.

    ReplyReply

  • To answer one of the other matters posted, yes, sometimes it’s far better to talk things out over the phone so I don’t blame Patti for asking Debra to call her or vice versa.
    As far as Patti being an editor at eXtasy Books, the answer is no, she is not an editor. Patti is an author.
    To verify my information, I contacted Tina, the owner, and she confirmed the EIC is Jay and there are several other editors on board, but Patti is not one of them.

    ReplyReply


  • Keishon
    March 29
    4:45 am

    Okay, so what I could glean from all that

    I couldn’t glean shit from it. Pardon my french.
    [shaking out a couple of Advil tablets]

    ReplyReply


  • Tracy
    March 29
    6:08 am

    I tried to post a few other times but 2 hours later nothing showed up, so if other comments sounding like this one show up later~that’s why LOL

    The one thing that stood out here (since I didn’t understand like 98% of what I read) was the “I’m an expert because I worked in an oncologist’s office, and I think you are lying because you can’t get chemo and radiation at the same time” That didn’t sound right to me. So, I took 10 seconds and googled it. Many, many, many hits talking about doing the two together. I won’t link or quote anything since Shiloh took care of that ;)

    My thought was that if you are going to slam someone and call them a liar, don’t you want to make sure you know what you are talking about??!! I mean, I’m not a doctor, a nurse, nor do I work in an oncologist’s office (and I don’t play any of these on TV!) but I found the info in less than 10 seconds.

    I just find it sad all these cat fights. Don’t people learn that “private” loops are not private and be careful what they say?

    ReplyReply

  • This past week, over here (and Karen’s other blog), Dear Author, and at Selah March’s blog, I’m learning about all kinds of fruits…apples, oranges, bananas….

    ReplyReply

  • And why on earth would anyone want to keep it rolling by forwarding private letters between the two involved parties to a blog?

    Private letters? Are you kidding? Don’t be so obtuse. These were posted on a public loop. There’s no such thing as a private loop. Private is e-mail to e-mail, not Yahoo list to Yahoo list. Unfortunately, neither party kept any of this stuff between the two of them.

    I think it is rather sad that blogs like this will try and blacken people’s names and make fun of them or a company with a good reputation.

    I can tell by the tone of your post that this is your first visit here. Well, stick around, you may learn a thing or two about my blogging habits. Hey, you may even sell an additional book or two, God knows, I have no idea who you are, and I’m guessing that most of my readers wont know you from Adam either.

    As for eXtasy Books, it is a fine and upstanding company, which I would recommend to anyone.

    Fine and upstanding e-publisher eh? well, I’d have to take a closer look to determine that wouldn’t I? Because as far as I’m concerned, anybody who would give a contract to Patti Rebmann, can’t be all that fine or upstanding.

    By the way, just to make it clear, who is it that you’re here to defend again? Because if it’s Patti Rebmann, well, you just landed yourself on The Fucktard list, and that aint a comfortable place to be here at Karen Scott Central.

    ReplyReply

  • Dear me.
    Karen, you’re correct in calling it a cat fight.

    ReplyReply

  • I think it is rather sad that blogs like this will try and blacken people’s names and make fun of them or a company with a good reputation.

    Paula, frankly, if somebody was threatening to sue me, I think I’d want to know just so I could be prepared. Although I don’t see how there’s any plausible reason for a lawsuit.

    But I do have to respond to the comment regarding the blog~if it wasn’t for blogs that openly discussed epubs, a number of writers would be less informed than they are. There isn’t a decent group to serve as an information source about which epubs to steer clear of and why, which makes getting info even harder. Granted, anything you read on the net should be taken with a grain of salt, but at least this gives people a starting point.

    As to blackening people’s names, I think the behavior of some does that well enough on its own.

    ReplyReply


  • Dorothy Mantooth
    March 29
    12:18 pm

    eXtasy Books…sigh. Not impressive. The listings on the website make it difficult to shop (the listing doesn’t say who the author is, so you have to squint at the cover of the book itself to find out) and if the free story they’ve posted is any indication of quality…this is the bargain basement of erotic epubs.

    A rudimentary Google search shows several problems and controversies involving them as well. This is hardly a publisher to use as an example of quality. Even if Patti “Crazy beyond description” Rebmann weren’t contracted with them.

    ReplyReply


  • MissKitty
    March 29
    1:27 pm

    Wait… Which stupid “§$%& would accuse someone else of fabricating a cancer diagnosis to get “pitty sales”?!!?
    Oh..on the other hand, I´ve been accused of not having arthritis because a) I´m too young and b) don´t look ill.
    Nevermind.

    But how stupid can you be, to do this on a public loop, without the smallest inkling of a clue or any proof?

    Oh well, so what. Mrs Rebman, here you go again.
    *hands over a spoon* Have fun eating, what you dished out.

    ReplyReply

  • Teddy can’t come to the phone right now, his team of editors is working diligently to translate this mess into some understandable format.

    Please leave a message at the tone.

    *BEEEEEEEEEEEP*

    ReplyReply

  • eXtasy Books

    and another

    Seems to be having issues.

    ReplyReply


  • Anon Cynic
    March 29
    2:12 pm

    If you believe every person on the internet who claims an illness, I have a Nigerian money order I’d like you to cash for me.

    Whether for sympathy, money, or to deflect responsibility, people claim diseases, miscarriages, family deaths, etc on the internet every day. If you say anything against the person, you’re insensitive and callous.

    I don’t know either of them, so I’m not defending one or accusing the other, just putting it out there.

    ReplyReply


  • Dorothy Mantooth
    March 29
    2:23 pm

    Anon Cynic, yes, you have a point. But Durham is using her illness as a reason to close her epub house, and she’s closing it the right way–giving back all rights and not having huge public meltdowns about how haters made her close. So despite the reservations I had about DEP from the beginning (and would have continued to have if they’d stayed open), I really don’t see why her illness is actually relevent to anyone else or why anyone would need to attack her over it. She could have closed the company simply because she didn’t feel like doing it anymore. It doesn’t matter as long as she did it professionally.

    ReplyReply


  • Whacky Author
    March 29
    3:10 pm

    I am and have been an author at eXtasy for a number of years and can honestly say that royalties are all paid on time if any are coming to me. I do know of a number of authors who like to hop skip and jump from house to house and who are unhappy no matter where they are and go and spread nasty rumors. Said authors hover under delusions of grandeur. If they don’t receive royalties because they haven’t sold, of course it’s the publisher’s fault. Not theirs. I also know of authors who tend to fall off the face of the earth for long periods. If authors’ books don’t sell, and I have to admit mine don’t, it’s probably because A: his or her writing isn’t good enough. B: Doesn’t appeal to the reader. C: Author doesn’t promote, as in my case.
    I don’t bitch if I don’t see royalties. I know the publisher has promotional staff, markets, and I, having small kids plus a full time job, just don’t have time. I’d rather write than sit and promote. If only one reader buys my book, I’m happy because I simply love to write stories.
    eXtasy is NOT having issues at all. From what I know, and I’m only an author there, the company is doing exceptionally well, has a huge readership and a bunch of great authors. The staff is great to work with. I’m a buyer there as well as I support fellow authors, plus there are some great books there in the genre I love.
    As for the above soap opera, it was mentioned that said publisher posted those letters on her ‘loop’. What a damn unprofessional thing to do. I couldn’t imagine having a personal correspondence of mine appearing on our loop. I love my publisher, but I’d damn well shoot her if she did something so stupid. It’s also scary to know that even private emails aren’t safe with some people. It’s going to make me extremely cautious who I correspond with from now on and what I say in emails, whether they be personal/private or on a loop.

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  • Ally Blue sums it up poignantly; this is so eighth grade. It has been my experience as a cancer survivor(uterine) that physicians often do recommend multi-treatments. “Authority on cancer”?? What b.s. Individual course of treatment is determined by several factors, including type of cancer, age of patient, overall health, family history, ect. It is also reliant on physician training and experience as much as treatment advances at the time of diagnosis.

    I am stunned by a needless conversation like this between two adults. I wish Ms. Durham all the very best, but hope both women will consider the seriousness of the topic before airing their heated words like dirty laundry.

    -Des

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  • Teddy, you crack me up! Send your lawyers my way when you’re done. I need their help understanding Madris’ last email.

    Des, I agree. If you go by Ms. Rebmann’s claims then because I used to work as a waitress, I can now claim to be a Le Cordon Blue chef. Frankly, if I had cancer and an “Office Administrator” tried to give me health advice as an expert, I’d laugh myself silly and then run like hell.

    Karen, You’re right about the private letters. We’ve learned from the NCP debacle that there is no expectation of privacy on an author’s loop. Right or wrong, immoral or not, the bottom line anywhere on the internet is if you don’t want everyone and GOD to see it, DON’T write it.

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  • ~laughing~
    I’ve noticed that those who make tsk-tsk noises about “private” letters being circulated around the web have no ethical compunction about reading them, in spite of the contextual preface clearly explaining their source posted at the beginning of the reprint.

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  • Jenns
    March 29
    5:26 pm

    My eyes are still glazed over. My brain is numb.
    What, what and what? I think I only comprehended about 40% of that. Maybe.
    I must get my team of investigators to confirm whether this woman really has sold any written words. Or I could save time and ask her team of lawyers about it.

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  • Karen, first, I put my name out there and you can Google it and find me with no issue. I am who I am and I believe in being upfront. I have nothing to hide and nothing to gain. I am disappointed that someone made a simple comment expressing their personal opinion on what is a private author only loop.
    The reason it is private is you must be an author to access the loop and it is protected by a disclosure statement.
    What I know started out as little comment that was someone’s opinion has apparently grown into the muck you have. What really irks me is that one little comment grew into this horrendous fiasco and will never cease.
    To me, the original act of spreading this is nothing less than a disgruntled author trying to stir the hornet’s nest in as many places as possible. In truth, all that’s being done is to hurt innocents who are not involved because now that the name slinging is everywhere, DEP authors, eXtasy as a company and eXtasy authors will be slammed because of who they publish with.
    This entire ordeal started between one lone DEP author and one lone eXtasy author. Nothing of it should involve anything to do with eXtasy as a company and her other authors or the DEP’s uninvolved authors.
    The fact is, whether I write on paper with pen or on a screen with a keyboard, once I seal and mail that envelope or click that send button, my words are only for the eyes of the recipient. When someone takes an email I write and posts it across the web, that is no different than taking a letter I wrote and printing it in the newspaper. It’s an invasion and the letter/email can be considered stolen property. It’s unethical.
    Please feel free to verify such with a copyright attorney.
    Said letters/emails were never posted on an eXtasy site, where do you think they came from? I don’t know, but I know that emails were NEVER posted on an eXtasy loop.
    Oh, and if nothing posted on the internet is private, then how does the copyright protect those who post stories or pictures on their site?
    I put my name out there on my words while Patti and Debra, along with eXtasy and DEP, were slung out there, but the person who started the ball rolling is hiding in the shadows. Why?
    I’m not here to defend anyone. I’m here in hopes people will consider the sources, look deeper to find the cause and not rail the innocent.
    There are countless authors who stir trouble and are always given a chance. People are human and make mistakes. I forgive and quite often forget because it’s the humane thing to do.
    Shiloh, lawsuits are ridiculous anymore, I agree.
    As for where authors can go to get prevalent information on editors and publishers, preditors and editors offers an overload. There is also Piers Anthony’s site, which he’s currently in the process of updating. Both can be found via a search.
    This whole ordeal started between two people and I’m paying for it as an author of one of the companies? Is that right? Is one person’s behavior a fair and reasonable assessment of a company?
    Since this is between two people, why are the companies even slung into it?
    Dorothy Mantooth, all publisher’s purchase links are different and some more so than others, but it is what it is. The old saying you can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time, is a sad fact. I would love to figure out to do the desired effect and market it. I’d be rich.
    To each their own as opinions are something everyone has and most vary.
    What are the dates on those complaints? What amazes me is that one complaint by a disgruntled author stands miles above forty-nine compliments that counter it.
    MissKitty, it was originally done on the publisher’s author only loop meaning it was done on a private loop.
    Anon Cynic and Wacky Author, I applaud you.

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  • all publisher’s purchase links are different and some more so than others, but it is what it is.

    But it shouldn’t because it greatly decreases usability. That’s something a professional web designer would have ingrained in his or her brain.

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  • Paula, given the nature of the internet, it really is high time that companies (meaning owners, managers, staff, subcontractors–which in this case means authors) learned that no matter how many times the words “private loop” or “private group” are used, sooner or later what’s said there will leak out.

    Whether ethical or not, nice or not, responsible or not, sensitive or not, etc. ad nauseam, it is what is going to happen.

    Therefore, private tantrums or quibbles or disagreements or what have you end up being exposed to the light of public opinion, if not always, damn near close enough as to make the difference irrelevant. That is reality in the internet, no qualifiers.

    All any individual person can do is behave herself, in all venues, in a manner they won’t regret when the chips fall down. ‘Cause they’ll fall sooner or later.

    As far as I can see, neither of the two parties involved in this particular cat fight is behaving well. But hey, we all have the right to behave like asshats :shrug:

    As for the negativity garnering more attention than its opposite… pardon the sarcasm, but welcome to humanity.

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  • Tracy
    March 29
    6:35 pm

    Oh, and if nothing posted on the internet is private, then how does the copyright protect those who post stories or pictures on their site?

    Private is different than copyright. Things may be copyrighted on a website but it’s not private~others can view it, right?

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  • SHayne
    March 29
    6:59 pm

    Paula,

    The internet is indeed VERY serious business. Because every idiot in town takes it seriously. And cat fights generate much interest in all the cats, don’t ya know.

    It’s the most base of human nature.

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  • Damn, Tracy stole my post. Post stealer! I’m gonna sue!

    Oh, and if nothing posted on the internet is private, then how does the copyright protect those who post stories or pictures on their site?

    Privacy and protection are two different things. People snag copyrighted photos to post their “hunk of the day” all the time on their websites. If you didn’t get permission to use the photo or pay the photographer a license fee, you’re wrong. But nothing would happen until the photographer found out and then decided whether it was worth it to take legal action. Copyright only protects when someone sues for copyright infringement–and a court agrees with them.

    Did you learn nothing from Savage Gate? If copyright can’t prevent ferret-stealing, what makes you think it’s going to protect an email sent to a list populated by dozens of people you didn’t personally vet?

    I think Nixon and the tobacco companies learned that private communications aren’t.

    If you don’t want people to react to your opinion, you might want to keep it to yourself. Besides, I don’t have to forward an email to call up a friend and say, “guess who’s behaving like a fucktard now?”

    You’re only guaranteed privacy in your own home. And even then, you might want to pat down your relatives/guests. Dog the Bounty Hunter learned that much.

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  • ilona_andrews
    March 29
    7:08 pm

    One is a writer, the other is a publisher. Both are incoherent. Both are catastrophically long-winded. And both raped basic rules of English grammar and punctuation. For example, both don’t know the difference between effect and affect.

    One: “Thousands of people were around when Karen was trashing my good name {K: What?}…but did it effect me?”

    Effect may be used as a verb but it means ‘brought about’. So either this sentence makes no sense.

    The other: “If my company didnt have an outstanding reputation and if it wasnt as upstanding as it was, you could have affectively ruined my authors chances anywhere else.”

    Affectively means in an affected manner or emotionally.

    :sigh:

    It’s not that I am a grammar Nazi. But if you’re wearing a hat that says Chef on it, you should learn how to cook.

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  • Ann Bruce, it is something ingrained in their brain, but web designers work in an entirely different field from programmers. In order for a web master to implement such a program, then a programmer must first make the program real. Would it sell? Like wildfire.
    AztecLady, Shayne and Seressia, you’re right and it’s sad but true. It’s just I often wish for so much more of the most intelligent species on the planet. And it’s never too late to hope respect and common sense become a little more commonplace.
    Tracy, view it, yes, but not trash it.
    I guess I just don’t because I respect others and their property and rights.

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  • As for where authors can go to get prevalent information on editors and publishers, preditors and editors offers an overload. There is also Piers Anthony’s site, which he’s currently in the process of updating. Both can be found via a search.

    There’s also Karen’s site. There have been a few times, if I recall correctly, that Karen had info pertaining to soon-to-be-defunct publishers before news appeared anywhere else.

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  • Dorothy Mantooth
    March 29
    7:44 pm

    Dorothy Mantooth, all publisher’s purchase links are different and some more so than others, but it is what it is. The old saying you can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time, is a sad fact. I would love to figure out to do the desired effect and market it. I’d be rich.

    Okay, I am really having a hard time understanding you here. “All purchasing links are different and some more so than others”? “How to do the desired effect and market it”? Is English your second language?

    What I said was, it’s hard to shop on the eXtasy site because the author’s names are not on the listings.

    Every other epublisher manages to put the authors’ names on their listings. EVERY ONE. If eXtasy cannot even do this basic thing, that everyone else does, there’s a problem. It’s unprofessional, plain and simple. An ebook company should be web-savvy. Look at Liquid Silver’s website. Look at EC or Samhain or Loose-id or any other successful epub. Their sites include real info in the listings (and are actually more similar than they are different), because anyone with half a brain knows that info is necessary. And any web designer with half a brain knows that too.

    And Whacky Author, while self-promo may increase sales, your sales should not depend fully on it. EC and Samhain have enough readers that titles offered there will sell regardless. I did no promo for one of my releases and still got a check in the high three digits. If you’re having titles release and not sell a single copy, your publisher does not have “a huge readership”.

    Look, I don’t know much about eXtacy and don’t mean to turn this into a discussion of them. I’m simply responding to questions others have asked, with my opinion based on my experience and my perusal of their site.

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  • The reason it is private is you must be an author to access the loop and it is protected by a disclosure statement.

    How many authors does Extasy or DEP have? You seriously think that posting an e-mail to a loop with over 100 members can be considered private? Author loops aren’t private, they just can’t be accessed by non-members. This makes them exclusive, rather than private.

    When someone takes an email I write and posts it across the web, that is no different than taking a letter I wrote and printing it in the newspaper. It’s an invasion and the letter/email can be considered stolen property. It’s unethical.

    If you leave the letter in a place where any old person can get hold of it, you only have yourself to blame. This was posted on a public loop, and that makes it fair game. I’ll leave the ethics questions to those people who live in Pollyanna Land.

    if nothing posted on the internet is private, then how does the copyright protect those who post stories or pictures on their site?

    Are you confusing copyright with privacy laws Paula?

    look deeper to find the cause and not rail the innocent.

    And who are the innocents exactly? My opinion is that any publisher that’s stupid enough to give Patti Rebmann a contract is a publisher I’d avoid like the plague. Is my opinion wrong?

    I forgive and quite often forget because it’s the humane thing to do.

    Erm, Paula, who should be forgiven for what here? What are you talking about? This blog post is clearly about taking the piss out of a woman who has a habit of showing her knickers in public. If you don’t like it, you can leave at any time you know?

    and I’m paying for it as an author of one of the companies?

    Oh don’t be so melodramatic. This post is really not about you, or Extasy. Although, I still think they are fucktards for giving Patti Rebmann a contract.

    Since this is between two people, why are the companies even slung into it?

    You really can’t see the wood for the trees can you?

    What amazes me is that one complaint by a disgruntled author stands miles above forty-nine compliments that counter it.

    Do you even live on earth? Do you really not understand human nature? When you watch a news channel, how many times do they report on positive, life-affirming stories? It’s a hard fact to swallow, but good news doesn’t travel as fast as bad.

    MissKitty, it was originally done on the publisher’s author only loop meaning it was done on a private loop.

    No, it wasn’t private, it was posted on an exclusive loop on the internet. That’s really not the same thing as a private e-mail. You can’t call a loop with over 100 members private, no matter how much you may want to.

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  • Its about as private as finding a street location. Information made available is information made available. Hell, just ask the US government.

    And all this talk really makes one ponder: What’s the underlying extasy books connection here? Inquiring minds, you know….

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  • Jenns
    March 29
    10:27 pm

    Paula, I’m sorry you feel that way. However, I think you’re placing blame on the wrong person. If you really feel that you’re paying the price for this catfight (and I really don’t see how it’s about you, no offense), I don’t think you should be blaming Karen. I think you should look at the true source of the conflict.

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  • SHayne
    March 29
    11:01 pm

    Paula,

    You’re failing to understand that all epublishers must be responsible if they pick asshats as authors. It’s a sign of bad epublishing. Just like Karen says they were fucktards for giving this woman a contract.

    They should have known she was an asshat to begin with. It isn’t about writing talent at all. It’s about whether you’re a fucktard or not. It’s really simple.

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  • *blinks*

    Have I been drinking? Has she been drinking? Should I be drinking?

    I’m going with that last option. This is just too much craziness for me to deal with stone cold sober.

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  • Grrrly
    March 30
    12:19 am

    how did paula take all that hot confusing mess and decide this post was all about extasy? is there some rabid author batsignal that goes off somewhere at headquarters?
    “Ooh noes! the hallowed name of our beloved publisher has been sullied and defiled by its passage through the keyboard of a mean girl blogger! to the defense, never mind whether it’s actually needed or not!”

    as for the actual topic of the post, deb and patti:

    “you’re a lying stinking poopyhead!”
    “nu-uh, you are, meany stupidpants!”
    that’s about what it boils down to.

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  • laura
    March 30
    1:28 am

    I almost never comment on blogs, because I feel like I don’t communicate very well via the written word.

    But I’m sitting here reading, and thinking “these women are published authors?” (That’s after the initial “sweet baby batshit Jesus!”)

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  • but web designers work in an entirely different field from programmers. In order for a web master to implement such a program, then a programmer must first make the program real.

    WTF? Um no it is called finding a web designer and paying them properly. That is all you need. Smart web designer and the money to pay them to properly create a web site that works.

    Been that way for years now. No magic voodoo involved.

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  • Tracy
    March 30
    4:27 am

    Paula, my comment had nothing to do with trashing or not trashing things. I didn’t say a word about that. I was just pointing out that what you said about copyright has nothing to do with privacy. That’s all. Don’t get me involved in something I didn’t say.

    Seressia~go ahead and sue me for all I’m worth! I’ve been a stay at home mom for 8 years and we’ve been living off my hubby’s income alone all that time. You won’t get much ;) (‘cuz he don’t make much! LOL)

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  • Ann Bruce, it is something ingrained in their brain, but web designers work in an entirely different field from programmers. In order for a web master to implement such a program, then a programmer must first make the program real.

    Ms. Calloway, I don’t know where you’re getting your info, but as a programmer AND a web designer, I can tell you usability has nothing to do with programming. If anything, the latest and greatest gadgets and programs today have DECREASED usability. When it comes to web usability, less is more and simple is better.

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  • Is English your second language?

    Ms. Mantooth, I agree Ms. Calloway’s comments are a little confusing, but that was uncalled for.

    Ann Bruce, someone for whom English is a THIRD language

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  • Dorothy Mantooth
    March 30
    10:38 am

    Ann Bruce, I’m sorry if my comment offended you but honestly don’t understand why it would. I’m asking Ms. Calloway if English is her native tongue because she seems incapable of being coherent in it. That’s a reflection of her own inability and not a blanket statement that anyone for whom English is a second or third language would be incoherent in it as well. Some people are better with foreign languages than others; I was asking an honest question.

    If I ask my blonde friend if she is a slut, that doesn’t mean I’m automatically implying that all blonde women are sluts.

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  • *wincing a bit as I step in the way of the oncoming train*

    Ms Mantooth, I have to say that while I didn’t mention it myself first, my reaction to the language question was the same as Ann Bruce’s. English is not my first language either, and I certainly think that the inability to express oneself clearly has nothing whatsoever to do with whether one is using a first or second or third language.

    I believe we have seen more than enough incoherent rants by native English speakers online to have made that rather glaringly evident.

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  • Dorothy Mantooth
    March 30
    12:53 pm

    No train, Azteclady, at least not on my end. I genuinely don’t see where the offense is, but the comment I made wasn’t aimed at myself either, so my feelings about it are unimportant.

    If you guys found it offensive, I do honestly and seriously apologize. It certainly was not meant as a slur on those who speak more than one language or to imply that all people for whom English is a second or third language cannot speak it properly.

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  • MissKitty
    March 30
    2:39 pm

    Thank you very much. Your considerate thoughts, concerning our sensitive feelings as non-native English speakers are highly appreciated.

    Concerning this discussion:
    Now that DEP is one day away from closing its doors, I can only add one thing.

    Seeing how the closing of the business was handled by Mrs. Durham and having proof (or the lack thereof) of the value of Mrs. “I was a secretary, I can cure cancer” words.

    Some may have seen this as a catfight, but one of the participants leaves the field as a classy lady and the other leaves it as… well… Patti Rebman aka AP Miller

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  • Nora Roberts
    March 30
    3:19 pm

    MissKitty, I agree with you. Do I think Durham should’ve stepped back and ignored Rebman? Probably. But I also imagine I’d've had a hard time doing so in her circumstances–her illness, the closing of her company–then being questioned like this, having her personal difficulties speculated on while she attempted to handle things as openly and fairly as possible.

    My personal take is that Rebman behaved badly, and Durham reacted.

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  • Darleen Cross
    March 30
    4:48 pm

    It’s been rather interesting witnessing how vicious it gets in here, and just how quick someone can turn into hamburger. As a reader, it makes me wonder, just how do some of you treat your readers…

    Go ahead, chew me up. I’m just a reader. :)

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  • SHayne
    March 30
    5:03 pm

    MissKitty,

    Somewhere in there the participants weren’t the only ones to look bad. I almost forgot people like Darleen Cross are around, watching it all. Warms my heart.

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  • As a reader, it makes me wonder, just how do some of you treat your readers…

    Is this addressed to anybody specifically Darleen?

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  • Darleen Cross
    March 31
    1:20 am

    Nope. Just a generalized statement.

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  • Whacky Author
    April 1
    7:10 am

    Far as I know, eXtasy readers are treated with courtesy and the support staff is extremely helpful. If a buyer has lost his or her files, the staff is prepared to send replacement files, as I’m told by the EIC.

    ReplyReply

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