Holly Lisle On Making Friends And Influencing Readers…

Apparently Holly Lisle is getting political on her blog, which annoyed one of her readers so much, that said reader, wrote her an e-mail telling her so.

I received this e-mail yesterday evening from a concerned reader. I have no time to paraphrase, so I’ll just post the pertinent bits:

Holly Lisle posted about some of the internet rumors going on about Obama, with links. Despite that it has been stated elsewhere that these are rumors and will be addressed by members of his staff, she said she was withdrawing her support for him and would be voting for McCain instead — and urged her readers to do so as well.

Now, a reader took exception to this and sent Holly a private e-mail, saying that she did not find it appropriate that Holly was using her influence in attempt to sway her readers’ voting choices with misinformation. She told her that she would be resigning from her mailing list and removing her books from her home, because she could not, in good faith, support someone who found nothing wrong with doing such. She sent the e-mail because she hoped that Holly would see that the way she was acting on her blog was actually losing her readers and damaging her career.

Holly re-posted this e-mail publicly, first in the comments on her original post, and then in a separate post on its own, calling the reader a “book destroyer”, continuing to defend the misinformation, and then demanding that she apologize. This resulted in Holly’s fans jumping to her defense, and calling the reader no amount of names.

(Ironically, Holly has threatened lawsuit against people who post her e-mails publicly.)

Here are the referenced posts:

Original Post 1
The second post
The third post by the reader’s friend

Here’s Holly, reposting the e-mail:

hollylisle Says:
June 11th, 2008 at 7:42 am
Waiting in my e-mail last night when the power came back on.

Holly, I know this won’t matter at all to you, but I’ll tell you anyway. I have been a fan of your work for a very long time. I’ve shared your books, helped build your fandom, respected and supported you. I’m not much of a joiner, so you don’t know me at all, but I’ve been there for you since 2000. I can’t respect you or support you any longer. You have a right to your opinions, but you don’t have a right to use your influence to spread misinformation.

Today your books went out of my house directly to the trash. After sharing your recent political blog post with others I know, I can tell you that my copies of your books aren’t going to be alone in the landfill. Because I once respected you, I ask you to please consider how much damage you’re doing to your career with your current direction. Ask yourself if it is really worth it. All the good you might do with your work is undone for me and a number of other readers. Is that really what you want?

So someone who has decided destroying the books written by someone whose opinion she disagrees with—and who is proud enough of her actions to announce them—has spoken. And it sounds like she’s putting some effort into encouraging others to destroy the books I wrote as well.

How, exactly, is that different than book-burning?

I see she totally got the point then. *g*

89 Comments »

89 piped up to “Holly Lisle On Making Friends And Influencing Readers…”

  1. AvatarShiloh Walker
    1

    Reason number one I don’t discuss politics. Gets too easily heated, folks forget that others are entitled to their own opinions and viewpoints.

    I’m sure we’re all going to see more than we want to on the candidates over the next coming months just in the news. I don’t wanna see it everywhere.

  2. AvatarGhetto Diva
    2

    I’d never dicuss politics on my blog, newsletter, or anywhere online. People are allowed to come put with their own opinions on who they want to vote for.

  3. AvatarAngelia Sparrow
    3

    I deal in politics, just not national level politics. Racism, sexism, misogyny, LGBT issues, etc. come up on my writing blog because I write books involving these things.

    On my livejournal, it’s pure grab-bag. You never know what you’re going to get: kid and cat stories, movie reviews, memes, writing whining, cover art. Whatever is there.

  4. AvatarDS
    4

    Well, I was disgusted by some of the ideas expressed in a book so I sold my copy on Amazon. That way someone who might have bought the book new got the book and the author did not get the royalty.

    May not have hurt the author but it made me feel better.

  5. AvatarDalia
    5

    Why is it wrong for Holly Lisle to use her influence for political ends?

    It’s neither business savvy nor professional, but what’s the big deal about her doing it? I dont’ understand the fan’s (over)reaction re: throwing her books out. Ok, that’s a lie. I can understand the emotion behind it, driven as it is by politics but I don’t find it particularly logical.

  6. AvatarGrowlyCub
    6

    Can’t say as this newest bit of info makes it more likely that I will ever pick up a book by Lisle. I really didn’t dig the last post of hers we discussed here either.

    She just doesn’t seem all that smart to me with regards to her interactions with her (potential) readers.

  7. AvatarCasee
    7

    The only person I discuss politics w/ is my mother. I can’t even talk w/ my husband.

    I think the email that the reader sent Holly Lisle was extremely well written and not at all rude or snarky.

    Dalia, I don’t think the issue was her using her influence for political ends. It was using her influence for political ends w/ mis-information. Or at least that’s what the original email from the reader suggests. I didn’t read the post in quesiton.

  8. AvatarMeljean
    8

    All I know is, I heart Monica Jackson more than ever after reading through the comments.

  9. AvatarBernita
    9

    “It was using her influence for political ends w/ mis-information.”
    If these rumours are the ones I suspect, that would turn me off the writer entirely.

  10. AvatarFae Sutherland
    10

    Religion, Money and Politics, three subjects I avoid like the plague because it never ends well.

  11. AvatarMonica
    11

    I felt like a little political rant yesterday. Why not do it on a conservative’s blog? Gets the blood rushing. I even insulted Reagan!

    I thought the threat over Holly’s books was made in a comment, not a posted e-mail. I wasn’t paying close enough attention.

    I don’t think readers should choose their reading materials based on an author’s personal opinions, religion, obnoxiousness, race, fashion sense, level of hotness, or degree of body odor but rather strictly on the book’s merits.

    However, I have even more distaste over posting private e-mails without permission.

    Shouldn’t be done.

  12. AvatarBeverly
    12

    What I think is funny is that the very thing she decries about Obama (that his team tracks down rumors on the internet and then addresses the people spreading them directly) is the very thing she did in that third link above.

  13. Avatarkerry
    13

    Authors have every right to have an opinion and express it on their blog. But they have to realize that people might not like that opinion and that can - unfairly or not - influence their decision about whether to buy that reader’s books. Readers are human. If I had an author that I really loved and read things on that author’s blog that upset me or that I didn’t agree with, I would probably think twice about buying another of that author’s works. It might not be “fair” but honestly, I’d rather buy books from authors who don’t voice their opinions, or whose opinions I don’t know.

    I’d really just rather not know an author’s political leanings. If Ms. Lisle’s personal opinions are so important that she has to post them on her blog, and risk alienating at least half of her readers - more power to her. But to be surprised when someone says that affects their purchase of her books? Naive.

  14. Avatarsistergolden
    14

    Religion, Money and Politics, three subjects I avoid like the plague because it never ends well.

    Wise words, Fae, and something I practice as well.

  15. AvatarRosemary
    15

    “Book destroyer” is….it’s just….she’s using it to be incendiary, and that pisses me off more than anything.

    Look, I’m a librarian, so I’m around a fuck-ton more books than your average person. I’m desensitized to them. Yes, I love books and read voraciously, but I see a book as a book, not a glorious and holy item of reverence.

    I honestly can not tell you how many THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of books that I have thrown away in my career from working in a bookstore to the various libraries.

    Throwing away a book YOU OWN because you don’t like it, or because it doesn’t interest you anymore, or because the information contained is no longer valid is not something to consider wrong.

    Snatching it out of someone’s hands because you don’t agree with the information it’s presenting IS wrong AND considered censorship. Saying out loud “I don’t like you and threw away your books,” is slightly childish, but sure as shit NOT wrong.

  16. Avatarkate r
    16

    I frequently make the vow to shut the hell up about politics in public or on my blog and I never manage to keep it. And I know I’ve lost readers because of it–they’ve written to me and told me so.

    It’s just that I spent years being so careful of people’s feelings, that I barely expressed my own opinions to myself. I hit my mid 30s and started making up for lost opinionated-asshole time, I guess.

  17. AvatarEmmy
    17

    What Kerry said.

    If you have a blog where you talk about your books and WIPs, and post links to purchase your books, it’s not really a personal blog. It’s an extension of your business. Authors are their own PR person. What you say and do can and likely will be reflected upon your business.

    As has been proven more than once right here on this very blog, acting like a feckin eejit WILL cost you in sales.

    But hey, it’s a free world (in most places), so say what you want. Just make sure Plan B for another job is in place if you’re planning on paying bills next month.

  18. Avatarrae
    18

    It’s not her comments about Obama that bother me. I can ignore that. Its her reaction and behaviour to that email that has put me off. Don’t think I’ll be giving any of my money to her online store

  19. AvatarNonny
    19

    I don’t mind people who can talk about politics calmly and rationally. Everyone has a right to their opinion. I do think that it’s in poor taste to post links that can be disproved and then continue to insist that they are accurate. Considering how much mud-slinging gets tossed around during any political campaign, it’s not surprising that there’s misinformation out there. I find it sad when people take rumors as fact, however.

    Overall, like Rae said, it’s not her comments about Obama that bother me. It’s her reactions to a reader who disagreed and said that it bothered her enough she was disposing of her books. That’s no excuse to post a private e-mail and make the reader target of a flame-squad, whether or not you think the reader overreacted.

  20. AvatarChantal
    20

    Well, there is another author to go on my do not buy list.

  21. Avataranon
    21

    These egomonster rampages of authors behaving badly and especially slapping down any reader with a differing opinion is getting depressing. I’ve already crossed Deb MacGillvray, Orson Scott Card, Patricia Cornwell, Cassie Edwards, and a few others permanently and forever off my reading list. Add now Holly Lisle, hypocrite extraordinaire.

    I have to stop reading author blogs.

  22. AvatarJesbelle
    22

    I don’t know. I think both of them over-reacted and neither was particularly well-written about it. The reader’s letter is very much a rant and a little over dramatic.

    Lisle posting the letter for mockery is petty. It would have been simpler to a) ignore it, or b) reply privately to the effect of “I’m sorry you feel that way, but this is my OPINION…”

    I just think we’re a little too ready to boycott and attack authors in blogland these days. Yes, she did something stupid, but really that reader was no peach either.

    And really, to both sides, who can say what’s misinformation in politics anyway?

    (edited for coherence.)

  23. Avatarbam
    23

    All I know is, I heart Monica Jackson more than ever after reading through the comments.

    I second Meljean. I’m naming my first child Monica Jackson, regardless of sex.

  24. AvatarPatricia
    24

    Let me ask you something. Haven’t you ever admired someone, and watched as they were turning into someone else, someone who was losing the qualities that made you admire them? And if you really cared, wouldn’t you consider saying something harsh to them, if you thought there was a chance that a shocking remark might get through to them when lots of polite, subtle remarks had failed?

    That reader wanted Holly to stop and think. Look at what she said to Holly. Those are words of disappointment that come at the end of a long journey, if she’s been reading Holly’s books since 2000. And I happen to know she has been a very long-term admirer, because I happen to *be* that reader.

    I posted that message to Holly. As I was unsubscribing from her newsletter, I took the time to tell her why. I didn’t make a long, drawn-out list of my reasons or my feelings because I honestly thought it very unlikely that she’d even read what I wrote. I didn’t post that message to her blog, or stir up trouble for her there. I just said what I honestly felt. Not to be childish, but in the misguided hope that harsh words might get through to her. Because I see her lashing out and I see her offending readers, and I wish she would stop. Because I cared. What else could I say that would get her attention? Do you think she listens to her fans when they dare tell her anything she doesn’t care to hear?

    I didn’t expect her to publish my remark (which was sent to her via private email, and was a hastily composed message in response to the “comments” field as I unsubscribed from her newsletter–not a careful, articulate message meant to be made public).I certainly didn’t expect her to call me names and encourage others to do so. How would you like to be an admirer of a writer, and have her turn on you like that? It wasn’t particularly enjoyable. Yes, I did say harsh things to her. But I can tell that no one knew *why* I said those things, until now.

    I did post a handful of angry things about Holly in comments to a friend’s blog. I kept my anger off Holly’s blog, stayed out of her personal space, to say what I felt. I shouldn’t have said anything anywhere, of course, but this was in comments on a personal blog belonging to a friend. I didn’t expect Holly to follow me there and keep up the abuse.

    Bottom line? I wish it had somehow helped Holly to see that she’s pushing readers away, but all my remarks accomplished was me getting chewed a new ass by Holly and any number of strangers. Valuable lesson to readers everywhere: if you don’t want to be treated like dirt by a writer and countless strangers, don’t waste your time caring. Walk away when your favorite writer is being an ass. Don’t try to tell them. They’ll make you regret it.

  25. Avatarkirsten saell
    25

    I’m with Jesbelle. The letter was unnecessarily dramatic, and the response was uncalled for.

    I don’t even know what the rumours are, and I don’t care. Of course, 1) I’m Canadian, and 2) I prefered Hilary to Obama. In fact, on a strictly visceral level (that has nothing logical about it) I prefer McCain to Obama. I have the same reaction to Obama as I do to Sarah Jessica Parker. I can’t stand either one of them, and I don’t even know why, but there you go.

    Not that the opinion of a Canadian has any pull in American politics!

  26. Avatarkirsten saell
    26

    I shouldn’t have said anything anywhere, of course, but this was in comments on a personal blog belonging to a friend. I didn’t expect Holly to follow me there and keep up the abuse.

    Now that response was really uncalled for. I can’t imagine why she would feel it necessary to smack you down like that. It’s a shitty situation, and it really didn’t need to be.

    If I were in your position, I would not have written that letter (unless the author were a personal friend), because really, I know how it would be received, nine times out of ten. But as an author, if I received a letter like that, the last thing I would do is post it and encourage abuse. I would possibly reply with an email expressing my regret at having lost a reader. That’s it. That’s what Holly should have done.

    What she did in following you elsewhere is foolish and bound to reflect poorly on her.

  27. AvatarJane
    27

    Ah Holly. I love how she slags off on readers on a site where she sells her advice on how to get published. The irony is so precious.

    I guess in Lisle’s world, everytime a reader throws away a book, an author’s angel’s wings are burned.

  28. AvatarPatricia
    28

    Kirsten, you are so right. I shouldn’t have said anything at all. Very misguided on my part, thinking I could make a difference. Holly doesn’t care what her readers think.

    Jane, thanks so much for the laugh. I really needed it today. :D

  29. AvatarBernita
    29

    That’s no way to treat a reader.

  30. Avatarveinglory
    30

    I would have to agree that a modern paperback is not exactly the book of Kells. People dispose of books every day for any reason they like.

  31. AvatarTracyS
    31

    And really, to both sides, who can say what’s misinformation in politics anyway?

    Ain’t that the truth! I hate this time of year. (every four years I should say)

  32. AvatarTracyS
    32

    adding to my above comment:

    If we were all to take off our “defensive caps” and be completely honest~no matter where we get our news~there is a bias and an agenda. No matter what news organization we are talking about. They will either favor the left or the right, but no one is completely balanced. So, it doesn’t matter what links we provide, someone is going to say the link is suspect.

    just my opinion of course!

  33. AvatarCinnamon
    33

    Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion. However I think authors who are blogging strong political views are just wasting their time and that of their readers. Voters, I feel, usually aren’t swayed by blogs, and certainly not by an author’s political sentiments.

  34. AvatarShayne
    34

    I’m wondering why readers seem to invest too much time and/or emotion in a particular writer. I have my favorites: Chelsea Quinn Yarbro, Douglas Adams, Kim Harrison, Terry Brooks, Jim Butcher. I love their books, not them. They could be ass hats all they want, I don’t really care. It’s their books I want to read; I have no desire to know them personally. Only thing that would piss me off about them is if I found out they were plagiarists.

    So what is the deal between readers and authors that I keep seeing?

  35. Avatarsallahdog
    35

    I love their books, not them. They could be ass hats all they want, I don’t really care.

    word… which is why I avoid author websites like the plague of authors I truly love… I made that mistake long ago after a little book by LKH, and was I ever sorry I did.. I have a hard time reading her books at all now…

  36. AvatarFae Sutherland
    36

    I feel similarly, Shayne. If I like the writing, I’m going to read the book, period, asshat or no. On the other side of the coin, I have friends whose books I’ve never read. Being my friend or someone I agree with doesn’t influence what I read or don’t read.

    And I’ll leave it there because I almost veered into the politics arena and that’s a no-no for me. Signing off!

  37. AvatarLaura
    37

    Patricia, am I correct in reading that HL followed your comments about her Obama post to another blog, and re-posted those on her own blog? If so, how does she justify that as being much different than Obama’s rumour chasing team looking for blog posts about him and responding to them?

  38. AvatarShayne
    38

    sallahdog,

    I’ve read Anne Rice. People believe her to be bat shit insane, and Ms. Rice acting however she wants, it doesn’t influence me about her work. Same with LKH. I stopped when Anita became porn. I don’t give a damn about LKH’s or Rice’s behavior. It’s the stories I care about.

    I try to understand that with some readers they do take author behavior personally, but it is hard for me to comprehend. So I see Karen posting stuff like this, and I’m left scratching my head. I don’t mean to make light of it, but I truly don’t understand.

  39. AvatarAztecLady
    39

    Shayne, I don’t think it is much different than people not watching an actor’s or a director’s movies because of that person’s behaviour away from set–Tom Cruise scientology thing, Jane Fonda Vietnam visit… you name it.

    Can’t speak for anyone else, obviously, but in the case of writers, for me, it’s a matter of not wanting to reward asshat behaviour by contributing to that author’s royalty checks. My way of ‘voting with my dollars’ if you will.

    Plenty of good books out there written by people who don’t insult their readers, be it because of the readers’ political beliefs or any other reason *shrug*

  40. Avatarkerry
    40

    I guess for me, if I think a writer is an asshat, I don’t wish to support them in their asshattery by buying any of their books. I have a limited amount of money and I’d rather it NOT go towards someone that I don’t respect.

    Am I heartbroken to find out authors that I read are asshats? Nope. But I don’t feel like buying their books, either. My very limited money will go to someone who’s either polite enough to keep their religious/political opinions off their blog, or say them in a way that doesn’t offend everyone who holds different beliefs.

    Maybe I’m an anomaly but I have to think a lot of readers are like that these days. Of course, I’m sure a ton of book readers don’t even read blogs or websites and wouldn’t even witness some things that authors have written that have made me go “ugh.”

    But here’s another example - I waited in line one time for about 3 hours to get a Patricia Cornwell book signed for a friend of mine. I liked her books well enough, but my friend was a huge fan. I eagerly told Cornwell that the autograph was for my friend - and made a couple of comments about how much she liked Cornwell’s work - and she said something snotty and snide. I don’t even remember what she said. But I do remember she wasn’t nice, and from that day on, I decided I wouldn’t buy a single one of her books. Blah.

  41. AvatarShayne
    41

    AztecLady,

    People are going to behave differently on something like this. I do realize that. It might be I so rarely find authors I genuinely like, and when I do, it’s rather hard to shake me from reading them. *L*

    I mean really hard. You couldn’t shake me off Douglas Adams HHGTTG if I found out he was the worst POS human in existence. I love those books. Heh.

  42. AvatarMonica
    42

    I think spurning authors for their obnoxiousness or irritating opinions is a bit of a woman thing, don’t you? Male authors seem to get away with being opinionated asshats way more frequently. Why is that?

    Folks seem to be more eager to diss women authors for bad behavior. It’s as if women are supposed to be ladylike and shit all the time.

    I linked to author John Scalzi’s fine rant this morning.

    Fox News Would Like To Take a Moment To Remind You That the Obamas Are As Black As Satan’s Festering, Baby-Eating Soul

    He let it fly, deleting comments and calling names. I read a comment recommending his books, but I didn’t notice anybody saying they’d throw his books away. But if he’d been a women author writing the same sort of stuff…

    (edited because I could)

  43. Avatarrae
    43

    If I disagree with an author’s opinion but I respect them I won’t stop buying their books. However I’m not giving my hard earned money to someone I have lost all respect for. Sadly the list of authors that I have lost all respect for just keeps on getting longer.

    @Monica I’ve seen people ‘dissing’ Scalzi before now. Perhaps its the circles you’re moving in naturally have more female authors & readers. So you naturally see more people complaining about women authors.

    If a male author behaves in a way that causes me to loose all respect for them then I will boycott their books.

    I can think of two male actors who’s work I avoid like the plague because I don’t like the way they behave.

  44. AvatarMonica
    44

    @Rae I was going by his comments (almost 200). Tho’ Scalzi would simply delete any comment that threatened him in that way. Gotta love the balls.

    I admit there is a male SFF author that burns me and I no longer read him. But I know he’s an obnoxious racist asshole who deserves dissing. I guess everybody has their buttons.

  45. AvatarShayne
    45

    Monica,
    Damn good point, and thanks for making it.

  46. AvatarNonny
    46

    Monica, I refuse to buy Terry Goodkind for the express reason that he is a complete and utter self-centered asshole. To give you an idea, the man has dissed the entire fantasy genre and said that there are no books out there with true heroes but his — oh, and his books don’t count as fantasy, they are heroic fiction. Riiiiiight. He’s also poked fun at the genre’s readers, and that so does not fly with me.

    In regards to Scalzi, I would point out that he has kept that blog, with his political opinions, long before he became a published author. I think the audience he has includes people other than readers, as he’s mentioned receiving e-mails from people when he went a long time without posting anything political. Holly’s blog was created after she was published and established in the field, and her posts have always been primarily writing-related. I think that (audience) is more to do with it than whether the author is male or female.

  47. AvatarAztecLady
    47

    Perhaps you mean that more female than male readers do this, Monica? or perhaps that female readers are more likely to announce publicly that they’ll do this?

    Or even, that given how small the online romance community seems to be, we are more likely to hear about both the (female) asshat authors and their (female) readers going at it?

    Most of the books I read these days are romances or have strong romantic elements, and so happens that the overwhelming majority of the books I read and keep are written by women.

    Women are also who write, lemme see, yup, all of the blogs I visit daily–and a few of them are published authors.

    The probabilities of my hearing about a female romance author behaving badly are that much higher than those of my hearing that a biographer or a non-fiction ethnographer is a bigot or psychopath. If I were to become aware of that, though, I would totally not buy works by that person, regardless of gender.

    (edited to add missing words, and I see that rae posted it while I was typing; oh well)

  48. AvatarLauren Dane
    48

    I can’t see the point of publishing an email sent to me, filled with honest emotion from a reader. It seems to me to be a terrible betrayal but again, it’s not my blog, not my letter, simply my Monday morning quarterbacking on the issue.

    At the same time, I believe it’s Holly Lisle’s right to speak her opinion whenever and wherever she wishes. But she, like anyone else, needs to be ready for the consequences.

    I am a very political person. There are issues I care about deeply and sometimes I speak about them on my public blog. Most of the time, I try to keep it to my private journal and with my friends.

    There are things I hear about people and I can never feel the same way about them again - and they’re quite usually to do with politics (yesterday I read someone making light of the news media referring to Michelle Obama as Barak’s “baby momma” which i find repugnant and intolerable. And there are some authors whose consistent romance bashing means I’ll never buy one of their books because I’m not financing asshattery.

    In the end, we’re all adults. If we are big enough girls to say it in public, we should be big enough girls to deal with the outcome without whining.

  49. AvatarMonica
    49

    Subjectively and in general, it seems that male authors can get away with being opinionated and outspoken easier than female authors (not just with readers, with everyone).

    Folks may disagree and that’s fine. Like I said, it’s a subjective observation.

  50. Avatarsula
    50

    Well there goes another author on the never-to-buy list. *shrug*

  51. AvatarMichelle
    51

    Such petty behavior by an author seems very unprofessional. I too am influenced by an author’s behavior. I hate it when authors use their rabid fans to harass others; reminds me of that Tess G. fiasco. There were a few mystery authors that I added to my do not buy list.

  52. AvatarGrowlyCub
    52

    I don’t think readers should choose their reading materials based on an author’s personal opinions, religion, obnoxiousness, race, fashion sense, level of hotness, or degree of body odor but rather strictly on the book’s merits.

    As a reader, can I mention how I have a really visceral, negative reaction when anybody, but especially an author, tells me how I should or should not select my reading material?

  53. AvatarMonica
    53

    Nobody can tell anybody else what to do, but most people have opinions. Voicing opinions are what comments are about.

    I select my reading material based on whether I think I will enjoy it or not. Period.

    Some readers very well may spend time sussing out an author’s personal opinions, religion, obnoxiousness, race, fashion sense, level of hotness, or degree of body odor before they decide to spend hard-earned money on a book and of course that’s their right.

    Personally, I prefer to read the reviews, the back blurb and the first few pages.

  54. AvatarPatricia
    54

    In my view, Holly is something of a special case. If you don’t know much about her career, let me explain.

    At one time, she maintained a very lively online community. She used to give away a huge amount of free advice for writers. She was terrific about encouraging people and focused on paying forward. In return for that, many of her readers felt a genuine connection to her. We supported her in myriad ways because she was one of the good guys, working so hard behind the scenes, helping new writers to get started, being open and accessible to her readers. Many of us had a chance to hang out with Holly online, and get to know her. It’s not like being real-life friends, of course, but it did make a number of her readers really care about her personally, not just as a writer.

    We watched as she went through a lot of difficult challenges. It is certainly not easy for most people to make a living as a writer. When Holly would hit a bad patch, she’d ask for our support and we’d gladly give it. Buy extra copies of her books, recommend her work to new readers, keep her in our good thoughts or prayers. Over and over. Not in some kind of sick relationship like in Stephen King’s Misery, but out of genuine caring for a human being who was struggling.

    Over the years, I’ve watched as Holly said unnecessarily rude, even unkind, things to readers. I always thought she must be going through a bad time, as we all do, and taking it out on people without intending to. I’m not the only person she made uncomfortable (after all, I know some of her readers personally since I introduced them to her work).

    It’s not about her opinions, it’s about the way she expresses them, speaking ex cathedra and being venomous on occasion when she encountered disagreement. I didn’t choose her books because of her opinions, and I didn’t speak out to her because of her opinions. For eight years I have watched as she has become a very different person. People change. It happens. Holly changed–first in ways that I found disturbing, then in ways I thought rather offensive, and now in a way I will not tolerate. Why is it difficult to see that there is a difference between expressing a political opinion and doing your best to spread a load of rumors passed off as facts? I am not a particularly political person. I’m not offended by Holly’s opinion, I’m offended by her behavior.

    I agree that readers have no right to dictate to the authors they admire. I didn’t tell Holly what she could or could not think or do. I told her I was deeply offended at her behavior. She chose to slant her comments to me to infer that I wish to censor her. I don’t want to, and would argue for her right to say what she pleases so long as she doesn’t present opinion or rumor as fact. That is an abuse of her influence.

    I’ve never once in all my long years of reading felt the need to throw away books before. This comes at the end of a long descent from respect to serious disappointment. And it happened with an author who once had a particularly close relationship with her core fans, who supported her through thick and thin. For Holly to have finally driven me away says something about her, but you can’t know that since you don’t know me. All I can do is assure you that she has changed to the extent that I don’t know her any more, and don’t want to know her. If there are others who comment here who have been supporting Holly for a long time, perhaps they can shed more light on the issue.

  55. AvatarNonny
    55

    Monica, I don’t think most readers are looking to “suss out” authors’ opinions/etc to decide whether or not to read their books. Personally, I read a lot of author blogs, in part because I want to keep up on news about their forthcoming releases. If an author then posts vitriolic opinions or rants on her blog, I’m not exactly deliberately seeking this information. Depending on what is said and done, however, I may decide not to buy their future books.

    As an example, an author replied to a comment I made on a web community, taking one sentence completely out of context and ranting at me about how a feminist should not use such language. This was during his release week. Guess what book I didn’t buy?

  56. AvatarK. Z. Snow
    56

    A thoughtful and moving post, Patricia. It should give every author pause.

    I seem to have endlessly shifting and conflicting thoughts/feelings about this year’s presidential campaign. Therefore, I refuse to discuss it until some startling epiphany pulls my head out of my ass and blinds me with its light.

    On the other hand . . . Anyone care to bash Fox Notnews with frothing enthusiasm? My bat is ready, I’ll tell ya.

  57. AvatarGrowlyCub
    57

    No sussing out necessary. I regularly read 3 blogs, DA, SBTB and this one and plenty of authors have exposed themselves without anybody giving them any rope.

    I’ve said it here and elsewhere. The internet is a double edged sword with regard to reader-author relations.

    I love to interact with authors and fellow readers and I had a blast with Lena Matthews, Liz Andrews, Eve Vaughn, Yuvonne Marlow, Maggie Casper, Liz Bevarly, Ann Christopher, Kathy Andrico, Jennifer Allison, Lady B and too many others to name at Lori’s Get Together, but what I’ve seen online and in person in other venues from many authors has put them firmly on my never-to-be-bought list, since I refuse to give my hard-earned money to folks who behave as these people have.

    I’m especially allergic to demands, condescension and put-downs of readers by authors.

  58. AvatarAztecLady
    58

    I’m especially allergic to demands, condescension and put-downs of readers by authors.

    Exactly.

    There are ways–and then there are ways–to say whatever it is you want to say, whether you are an author or a reader. The consequences for the former, though, are vastly different than those for the latter.

  59. AvatarMonica
    59

    Nonny, Therein lies the wisdom of keeping a separate author’s site from one’s blog.

    Authors are people too, and are readers also. Many readers want to become and do become authors. Why the divide? Once published do you become a promotions machine, only caring about whether your books sell, hiding your personality and opinions? Some authors do, putting books sales first and foremost, but some don’t change who they are.

    I agree pissing off one’s core readers and fans isn’t a wise thing for authors to do. The core readers who support my career aren’t romance readers even though I did write romance. They are black fiction readers. I always keep this in mind.

  60. AvatarJennifer McKenzie
    60

    Well, I have to say as a reader, an author deeply disappointed me when she basically said we needed to “get a life” because we kept asking her for a continuation of a series she was “done with”.
    As an author, I have posted political opinion. But I’ve been generally dissatisfied, said so and said only MY opinion. The only link I posted was to a recording of Obama’s own words.
    I don’t ever want to make a reader mad, but I also like to reveal a bit about who I am and that may lead to *ahem* a few opinions.

  61. AvatarKayleigh Jamison
    61

    Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and it’s up to that person individually to decide whether or not to share them. Politics is one of those emotionally charged subjects that has a sharp tendency to get people upset.

    Lisle is entitled to her opinions, and her decision to broadcast them, but she’s also got to own the repercussions.

    Any time an author (or actor, musician, artist, anyone who aspires to be or is a “public figure”) swims in these murky waters, they run the risk of alienating their fan base.

    Lisle gets to reap what she’s sowed.

  62. AvatarPatricia
    62

    Monica, the fact that you keep in mind who your readers are shows that you have a deep respect for the intention behind writing–it is more than entertainment, it is the communication of ideas. You are worthy of great respect. :)

    Therein lies the heart of the problem with Holly at this point. I think it is fair to say that many of her readers once felt she kept in mind who we are…and now, no longer cares. The overwhelming focus of her material has always been that goodness can overwhelm evil if good people try hard enough, that friendship and respect are valuable even in the face of darkness, that there are truths worth fighting for even when the fight will carry a great cost. And so she has attracted readers who agree with what she says in her work. She has personally said many times on her blog that what she espouses in her work, she values in real life. Readers felt a kind of bond with that.

    It is, therefore, all the more jarring to watch as Holly acts without integrity. Regardless of her opinions, the way she behaved towards me was uncalled for. Why did she post my private comment? What on earth motivated her to do that, and then ridicule me?

  63. AvatarMonica
    63

    Patricia, thanks for your kind words. I see you’re hurting and feel bad for you.

    I dunno about Holly. I checked out her site when it was first up at sff.net. I admired a great deal of the things she was doing, but she seemed to freely make herself vulnerable.

    I still check on her site once in a while the same way, but I’m not a joiner, much less a group-type of person so I don’t hang out or get involved in personalities. I have no idea how she’s changed or even how she is vs how she was. I do like her books, support her e-book effort and admire what she does with her site.

    Maybe she’s having a bad time in some way? But if she exposes private e-mails, nobody is going to trust her enough to go to her and talk about what’s bothering them. That’s not good.

    Maybe once she cools down, she’ll contact you again and discuss her actions.

  64. AvatarAlly Blue
    64

    Okay, well, now that I’ve spent most of my morning reading these blogs *g*

    Holly can certainly think (and post) what she likes. I think she’s WAY off base politically speaking, but that’s neither here nor there. What I find reprehensible is that she posted a PRIVATE email from a reader on her PUBLIC blog, without permission. There is, IMHO, no excuse good enough for that. It doesn’t matter what she thought of the email, it doesn’t matter what the content of the email was. She took a PRIVATE communication into the public arena for the sole purpose of flaming the author of the email. I don’t buy books based on the author’s politics or any other personal reason, but I will drop an author like a bad habit if he or she exhibits behaviors that I find unethical. If I were to discover, for instance, that one of my favorite authors supported writing a ban of gay marriage into the constitution, I would never buy one of that author’s books again, because that view is so at odds with my own views that I couldn’t support that author without losing sleep over it. That’s a hypothetical situation, btw; so far, at least. Let’s hope it stays that way…

    Anyway. I’ve enjoyed Holly’s books on plot and character development, and found them helpful, but she’s off my list after this little incident. I’m unsubscribing from her newsletter as soon as this post is in. Expressing your political opinion is one thing. Holding a reader up for ridicule and name-calling simply because they don’t like you anymore is just WAY too junior high for me.

  65. AvatarRobin
    65

    I have spoken a lot about my distaste for authors publicizing reader emails without permission — and that includes those wonderful emails that make the author feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

    All I know of Lisle is gleaned from her periodic outbursts, and it hasn’t encouraged me to find out more. I don’t care about her political views (within reason, of course — if she advocated genocide or something, I’d not by buying her books), even though in this case I think they are . . . off.

    What I see with her, though (my opinion only), is a persistent disconnect between her POV and those who disagree with her, and a total unwillingness to see disagreement as anything but a personal attack and/or a lie told about her. So I’m unfortunately not surprised she had the reaction she did to Patricia’s email, and frankly, I would never expect her to change her view. My general sense of Lisle is that you’re either with her or against her, and if you disagree with her, you automatically go into the against group. And while what she did to Patricia I’m sure felt quite personal, I don’t think it was intended to be any more personal than her threat to delete the IMO incredibly sane and thoughtful comments of Dave L.

    I don’t know why she reacts the way she does (could it be the dangling, flaccid penis state theory at work, lol). Ultimately, I kind of formed an impression about Lisle when she promised legal action against those who wrote fan fiction of her work. I think that it’s wonderful for those who have benefited from her advice and support and who have loved her books. I understand from Patricia’s posts the loyalty that was built and then destroyed, and IMO it wasn’t about Lisle’s political views, per se, but about the whole set of dynamics involved in the way she handled the discussion. When I saw that sentence in one of her blog posts about how she doesn’t like conflict, I thought, uh oh, here we go again, this is gonna get ugly, because inevitably those who claim to hate conflict seem to create a lot of it, often without realizing it.

    Everyone obviously has to make up his or her own mind about whether to read an author’s books, whether to toss them in the trash (which is, IMO, a far cry from book burning, which is an intrinsically *symbolic* act of protest), or whether to not buy them at all. In terms of more personal interactions, I don’t know if it’s at all possible to predict when things might go awry. I have just come to expect that things intermittently will.

  66. AvatarAlly Blue
    66

    I kind of formed an impression about Lisle when she promised legal action against those who wrote fan fiction of her work.

    The day fanfic of my books starts popping up on the interwebs, I’ll know I’ve arrived. LOL. IMHO, if someone takes the time and effort to think up new stories for my characters, or different ways they think a story might have happened, it indicates a tremendous level of love for and involvement in a book. I’d consider that a huge compliment :)

  67. AvatarLynne
    67

    Posting the private email on her blog was way over the line, IMO, but not exactly out of character for her, given her previous online behavior. I’ve tried to read her books, but I haven’t found one that held my interest. Something in the voice really didn’t ring true with me, and that’s a deal breaker.

    Although I think authors are absolutely within their rights to express political opinions in public, they shouldn’t be surprised if people who don’t agree with them feel disinclined to buy their books. I wouldn’t stop buying someone’s books if I found out his/her political leanings were radically different from mine, but I absolutely *would* boycott if he or she had a hand in fostering hatred or perpetuating lies.

  68. AvatarNonny
    68

    Monica,

    Speaking as a reader, I actually do prefer when authors are “real” in their blogs and online correspondence. But you can be “real” and still not be a jerk. I don’t mind people posting strong opinions — it’s when their response to somebody disagreeing is to start name-calling and tantrum-throwing that there’s a problem. If someone can’t behave like a reasonable adult, they probably oughtn’t be blogging.

  69. AvatarNonny
    69

    Ally,

    I’m with you there! :)

  70. AvatarShreela
    70

    Once I found that many authors had blogs, I subbed to many of them, but have since unsubbed from them after a few months because most of them are just PR machines. I’ve found I prefer reader/review blogs (this blog, SB, DA, ect…) to sub to instead. But before I did the mass author-unsubbing, I had already unsubbed from one male author who posts politically on his blog.

    But because this was such post seemed so dramatic, and the scandalous side of me enjoys the “authors-gone-bad” types of posts, I read the post, then the comments, and was ready to boycott Lisle myself (I have not read her, but I had surfed her website a while back for her articles).

    So then I clicked the links and read what Lisle posted. Um, it’s not that bad to me; I would certainly never quit an author whose stories I enjoyed over that post. But then again, I’m not extremely behind any of the current politicians. If I had been subscribed to her blog, I’d certainly unsubscribe from it, because like I’ve already mentioned, I don’t care for fiction authors blogging political posts on their book blog (same with actors).

    But onto the “OMG it’s so friggin scandalous” subject about Obama’s internet team:

    My understanding of libel/slander is that people can be held liable for making public comments about someone else that aren’t the truth. If someone is saying, or writing in public false statements about someone, they can be sent a notice to either retract or suffer a lawsuit, unless they had some kind of evidence to back up their claims. So, I suppose it would depend on how aggressively Obama’s people acted before I could decide whether they’re within their rights not to be libeled, or were stomping on our rights if they used their power to shut down a site that had some kind of proof to back their claims of whatever.

    I don’t think Lisle’s being concerned is such a big thing, but I’m not dedicated to any of the eligible politicians either. If Obama’s people overstep their right to defend libel, then there’ll be plenty of scandal and outrage to slow it down. But, I’m glad there’s watchers out there, because if everyone was totally complacent, then I truly believe someone would eventually take advantage of it and try to stifle our rights (ahem, I’ll stop there LOL).

    I understand not wanting to support artists whose beliefs/actions are radically opposite of mine (Tom Cruise), had repeatedly been trashy in public (BSpears, LiLo, Paris), or almost went after a reviewer’s family, or plagiarized. But to stop reading an author someone’s followed for some time, because she’s concerned a politician might overstep their power? Through the years, I’ve seen boycotting of actors who supported a politician when someone else supported the opposing politician. I think that’s real, *REAL* dedication when someone boycotts somebody else, or a business, because the artist/business is dedicated to an opposing candidate.

    *Lisle pasted email into comments. I’m undecided about this being all that awful; it was in response to an ongoing thread, so Lisle might have looked at it that way. She did NOT use the sender’s name or IP# to identify who sent it. Lisle asked the sender questions about her views of different topics, and made a reference to book-burning (Ok that was a bit dramatic).

    I certainly won’t be subbing to Lisle’s blog now that I know she posts politically. But I certainly won’t avoid reading her over this incident; I personally do not think it’s all that terrible, even with the questionable posting of the email. I’ve just never been really, *REALLY* dedicated to a politician I guess (I’ve been really against some though 8^)

  71. Avatarrae
    71

    I don’t care about the politics. I’m not into that any of the US politics because I don’t live there. I was subscribed to her email lists and I have unsubscribed because I do not wish to associate with someone who behaves like a school yard bully. If the person had posted on her blog that was one thing but this was a private email she chose to publish without permission. Then she went on to attack this person, which had the effect of blog commenters attacking this person as well.

  72. AvatarPatricia
    72

    After discussing this issue with another author who maintains a blog (I mentioned no names nor none of the specifics during our discussion–I just wanted an opinion of the general issues), I have come to see one aspect of the situation in another light.

    It was suggested to me that perhaps Holly feels any correspondence she receives is her property, and she has a right to publish it. Much as an editor of a print publication would feel any “letter to the editor” was fair to print. If that is the case, then it makes her publicati