58 piped up to “E-Publisher Does A Runner And Screws Her Authors? Say It Aint So J.M…”

1. Darlene Marshall Posted: Jul 19th, 2009 at 6:09 pm

   1 Sigh. Another day in e-publishing. Two steps forward, one step back. I feel for all the authors who got caught up in this.

2. sallahdog Posted: Jul 19th, 2009 at 7:19 pm

   2 I want to feel for them.. but I keep getting reminded of people who keep falling for the Nigerian lottery scams…over and over and over… At what point do you start to question their intelligence or gullibility…

3. Anon Y Mouse Posted: Jul 19th, 2009 at 8:20 pm

   3 It’s impossible to feel sorry for people who, like these, were given more than one big red waving flag and still continued to cry ‘mean girl’ and kermitflail defensively. Too bad, so sad, I don’t feel sorry for them at all. They attacked everyone on this blog for daring to ask a question about their publisher’s affiliation with a known scam artist, now they’re paying for not having asked any questions themselves. And the next time one of their fly by night “sells 10 copies in a quarter” pubs goes under, they’ll be just as surprised. Because people like that never learn.

4. Michelle Marquis Posted: Jul 20th, 2009 at 1:05 am

   4 Before I heard any rumors about her, Jennifer came to me with this big sob story about staring her own epub because it was a dream of a now dead friend of hers. So I gave her a few short pieces to help her get started. I mean, every small business has to start somewhere right? But when Karen came out with who she belived this woman really was, I got concerned. However, I’ve been getting royalty checks from MMP on time for the past year and a half. So everything looked on the up and up. But then things started leaking out, like when her assistant at the company up and quit stating she had been told by Jen that her identity was stolen when in reality Jen got greedy and cashed the Fictionwise check for her own private use. The identity story was just a lie to hold off the authors for a while. Jen is a very stupid girl because now she’s going to have problems with the FBI, her state Attorney’s Office, and the bank she wrote checks on. I plan to have a VERY busy week writing letters and making phone calls. I’m not looking for sympathy, I just wanted to get the word out so everyone would know the truth. I don’t feel bad for trying to help someone start a business, but it is a shame that she took advantage of people’s trust. All I can say is I hope that Fictionwise check was a big one, because it’s gonna buy her a whole hell of a lot of trouble.

5. P A Matthews Posted: Jul 20th, 2009 at 1:44 am

   5 At the time of the original blog post I didn’t post anything regarding MMP because I felt the entire situation questioning J.R. Mitchell and MMP was justified. I had those same intuitive feelings and didn’t submit anything else to MMP. Some people prior to the meltdown terminated their contracts, now almost everyone has terminated their contracts and the staff has given notice. I am one of the authors involved and have ended my series there. As of this date I have terminated my contract with them and look forward to not receiving any compensation for my work and my rights hang in limbo. I don’t ask anyone to feel sorry for me, I’m an adult and able to make correct or incorrect decisions and take the brunt of the ill-fated ones. If someone wishes to put me in the category of never learning, then that is their choice and I do hope nothing ever happens in their life which will cause them undo stress. The reason I am here is to let you know and you get to say I told you so again, is Keeley McGregor was never a real person, but one made up to suit Ms. Mitchell’s whims. Ms. McGregor died an unseemly cancerous death, had no family, didn’t want anyone to worry about her, and was supposedly buried under a tree on federal land because this was her true wish. Honestly, I couldn’t write that stuff with a straight face, but here we are several years later finally digging through all the mess and not finding Ms. McGregor’s skeleton anywhere. And in the I told you so I hope you will also let everyone know not to purchase anything from MMP or third party affiliates since none of us will be paid. In the end it will be the court of law who will deal with Ms. Mitchell, but even that, I don’t believe, will stop her since she can start up anywhere with a new name and a new game. Thank you for hearing me out. I’m sure you have more interesting things to comment on. I guess I will get to be called a name now.

6. Myra Willingham Posted: Jul 20th, 2009 at 2:35 am

   6 This whole mess sounds a lot like Gina Haldane, the broad who ran Romance Foretold West. The rumors about some of the things she did just boggle the mind. Her shenanigans are why several of her former authors banded together to form Amber Quill Press. Smart ladies made hay from barf because they never were paid the money owed to them by RFI West and from what I understand, the man who did the artwork was left not having been paid tens of thousands of dollars. It wouldn’t surprise me if these two women were one and the same. This is why so many epubs have a bad rap.

7. Shiloh Darke Posted: Jul 20th, 2009 at 7:55 am

   7 Honestly, as this was the first time I have been published, I was a stupid, trusting, naive child. It was something I wanted so badly that I told myself it was an answer to my prayers. Until this year, they had been paying me at the end of each quarter. Hell, I received copies of my stories in PRINT. Almost ALL of us did. The warnings you gave out back then wasn’t even anyone that was ON the Editorial staff at MMP at the time, but a cover artist. PERIOD. In my eyes, that wasn’t a big enough reason to doubt them. Especially when I was getting paid. Then the first quarter came due for this year, and NOTHING. Honestly, not even any word. Until our chief editor gave us the Jen has been a victim of Identity theft, speech. In this world, anything is possible, right? So I felt sorry for POOR Jen, and agreed to wait until more news came. Then it just turned into one excuse after another. Do I feel stupid? Yes. Did I fall into this trap like a trusting idiot? YES. But something that MOST of us had in common with MMP is we were first time authors and we were too trusting. Shame on me. Now, all I can do is pick myself up. Dust myself off. And start over. What fun. . .

8. Karen Scott Posted: Jul 20th, 2009 at 8:49 am

   8 @MMP authors Listen guys, I’m not above saying I told you so, because let’s face it, I was asking questions as a reader that you guys as authors should have been asking yourselves. At the time, your blind defence of Jennifer Mitchell surprised me, because I’d have thought that you guys would have perhaps dug deeper, and given what had gone on previously, would have been a little bit more cautious. I can appreciate the burning desire to be published, and to see your name on a book, but this is precisely the reason why you should have approached MMP carefully. People like Jennifer Mitchell feed off that desire, and use it for their own ends. Whoever said that start-ups have to start somewhere was right, but there are ways of mitigating the risk. Did you guys ask to look at the long term and short term business plan? As a start-up, JM should have been prepared to prove that she wasn’t just Fly-by-night publisher, seeing as you guys were entrusting your masterpieces to her. As for her paying you guys in the beginning, were they 3 figure and 4 figure sums, or were they tens of dollars, which she’d be able to meet easily enough with a bank loan? What was the overall marketing plan? Did she talk about how MMP were going to be launched to potential readers? Did you show up at conferences touting your wares, or did she just simply put a website up, and hope that the readers would somehow find you guys all by themselves? What was the increase in book sales over a 12 month period? 10%? 50%? What? What questions did you guys ask her before you signed on the dotted line? Did you ask how she was funding the business, and how she would cope if those thousands of readers didn’t immediately flock to MMP? These may sound like very personal questions, but actually they’re not, they are business questions that need to be asked when considering working with a company with no history. Just one piece of common sense advice from me; If your next publisher starts using terms like “small and family-like” instead of sticking to business terms, you probably need to run a mile. Publishing is a business, not part of your extended family, and it should be treated as such. And that goes for the author and the publisher.

9. Shiloh Darke Posted: Jul 20th, 2009 at 9:10 am

   9 I know you told us so. Now, I know better. I did ask some of those questions and the answers she gave me seemed quite reasonable to me at the time. What I knew upon joining was that Keeley was her business partner and was funding the creation of MMP through her inheritance. (As well as it being her dying wish (yada,yada,yada) I had a friend who is a lawyer look over my contract before I signed it and he didn’t see anything that looked shady or not on the level. And he’s a seasoned Lawyer. Not a kid just fresh out of law school, so if she can B.S. her way past him, then — I was an easy target. As far as the rest… she had told me that breaking in to the business of being a well paid author is touch and go and the best thing you can do is get as much of your work out there as possible. She assured me that in time, as my popularity increased, so would my sales. In some ways that was true. But then I never saw an increase on paydays. As a matter of fact, if anything, the money decreased, despite the fact there were now five stories out. (a fact that I hope can be remedied soon) Your advice was and is sound and I must apologize to you for not taking your warning more seriously. Forgive me.

10. Nonny Posted: Jul 20th, 2009 at 11:10 am

    10 *comment for e-mail*

11. Ghetto Diva Posted: Jul 20th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    11 This is why I only primarily write for Loose ID. I have been shafted not by 1, but 2 epublishers (OMP being one of them) that have stolen royalties, and disapeared in midair. And hearing shit like this, makes me glad that I’ve stuck with Loose ID. Yes, I’ve had offers to write for “start up” companies. But no matter, how nice they put there offer and hopes for there “start up” company, I’ll stick to Loose.

12. Shiloh Walker Posted: Jul 20th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    12 I can appreciate the burning desire to be published, and to see your name on a book, but this is precisely the reason why you should have approached MMP carefully. This needs to be put on a plaque and given to every aspiring author. I do feel sorry for those end up getting screwed-it sucks, and unfortunately, there’s not a whole of lot of places one can go for solid, concrete, unbiased info-which is one of the reasons I’m so huge on trying to get RWA to approach epublishing differently. You have to research, you have to google, you have to talk to people-because if you don’t, you can end up screwed. I feel bad for those who ended up getting screwed this time, and I’ll feel bad the next time it happens. And there will be a next time, because as long as people are so determined to get ‘published’, there will be those who end up making bad decisions.

13. sallahdog Posted: Jul 20th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

    13 Look, I don’t want people to feel that I am happy they have been shafted. Thats never good. I realize also that all companies start somewhere and there has to be some trust and taking a leap of faith for any new epublisher to get started. The big red flag I saw, and its one I see all the time on the internet (not just in this field), is the “interesting sob story” that accompanies most con artists business endeveours… In this case, the dead friend… If you asked other successful internet businesses why they started their companies, its all about boring business plans, filling a niche in a market they thought was being ignored. Not some incredibly memorable tale of woe that tugs the heart strings.. Putting it in the internet scam artists (the nigerian stuff for example)… There is always some exciting, maybe even improbable story (like to explain why you have won a lottery you never entered, or to explain why they want you to cash a check at YOUR bank and send them proceeds) deposed kings, dead friends, etc, all part of the scam… and of course the promise of riches (because humans are by nature a greedy lot who will swallow a lot if there is a pot of gold.) I guess what is frustrating for me, is that your names will now be put on a “suckers list” and you will be targets for the next scammer… Because people WILL fall for this stuff, over and over… So maybe next time, realize that boring business plans, strictly professional relationships (rather than “family” talk that gets you to let down your guard and serves to stave off questions for months rather than taking charge the second there is a problem) are where you want to send your hard work… I am not in the book business, I am a landlord and I have been burned before by “friend tenants”…. So much so that I have hired a management firm so there is that seperation… These principals apply to any business really..

14. Anon76 Posted: Jul 20th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    14 I’m so with Shiloh on this. Not only do I still feel for the authors who were snookered (even with fair warning) but this is exactly the reason that RWA has to modify its thinking regarding epubs. Epubs have a different business model, yes, and when done correctly, it is a sound business model. The problem lies in the fact that many epubbed authors with years of experience have shunned RWA in reciprocation for being shunned themselves. Hence, the vast amount of knowledge they have about the biz is being shelved and wasted. They have no voice except when sites such as this one bring a problem to the forefront. And even then, they are pooh-poohed as being mean girls with a vendetta. Well, yeah, many of these people have a bone to pick with these fly-by-night pubs and their staff. They have the right. They’ve been shafted and thinking back on it, they, like many of the authors of Mystic Press, now realize they didn’t heed the warning signs. So without a structured voice, we are left with people trying to get out these warnings while knowing full well they may face the wrath of a swarm of authors yet to be shafted. The sad thing is, this really is a small world when it comes to publishing. If you play the game for a while you know the players (editors, authors, owners, bloggers, reviewers) and follow the shifts of these individuals from one place to another. You learn to sort the shite from the shinola. Too bad that type of information is often held back for fear of repercussions.

15. Alisha Rai Posted: Jul 20th, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    15 Bummer. For the MMP authors, and for all e-pubbed authors. Stuff like this hurts the credibility of the industry as a whole. I wish we could administer some sort of competancy exam to any start up e-pub. I mean, every small business has to start somewhere right? Of course it does. I’m grateful to the authors who took a chance on EC, Samhain or LI back in the beginning. Would I have been one of them? Hell, no . It’s nice to try to help someone out, but if writing is your (I mean this as a general you, not specifically directed toward the OP) career, you need to worry about making a profit for yourself first. New authors, don’t let your desire to see your name in print overcome your rational decision-making. And if you are looking to sign with a start-up, keep your ear to the ground and seriously consider every whisper of news and/or gossip concerning the company, whether it’s on a news site or a reader blog. Be suspicious if you hear no news as well. Leave your emotions at home, and be objective. I’m not trying to lecture the MMP authors or say I told you so or anything, I’m sure you guys know all of this by now. It’s the next crop of fresh-faced writers who need to beware of companies like this. From my business background, I can tell you a good rule of thumb is not to tie up any of your projects with a fledgling company until it proves itself on someone else’s back for at least a few years. Cold, and not very artiste-ish, but that’s business. I do feel bad for the authors who got caught in the crosshairs here. Best wishes that you get through this with the minimum of stress and you’re able to move forward in your career.

16. SarahT Posted: Jul 20th, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    16 Ouch! Crap like this doesn’t help RWAChange’s case one bit. I once worked for a company which used the “we’re like a family and need to pull together in hard times” bullshit excuse for only paying the staff half our salaries. I quit. The experience taught me a valuable lesson: no employer is your friend and no company is your family. A publisher is the same as any other company: it begins and ends as a professional relationship. At the risk of sounding sexist, I think more women than men allow themselves to be emotionally manipulated by the “we’re like family” excuse. We’re conditioned to be helpful and accommodating, which doesn’t always work to our advantage in a professional environment.

17. Ghetto Diva Posted: Jul 20th, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    17 I understand that every company has to start out every where. But before authors who want to get published submit there ideas to “start up” companies, why not try your hand at the companies who have proven themselves to be good with editing, royalties, statements, such things like that…Why not give EC, Loose ID, or Samhain a shot? My question is why head to the new companies which are most likely to rip you off? Yes I have been there too, but try your chance at companies that have been around. Yes, you may wait a long while as the submisson process can sometimes take months, BUT wouldn’t it be worth it in the long run when you are published with a decent and successful publishing house?

18. Michelle Marquis Posted: Jul 20th, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    18 Oh yeah. I reported the snake at MMP to her webhost and guess what? She’d down (for now anyway.

19. Myra Willingham Posted: Jul 21st, 2009 at 8:58 am

    19 >> My question is why head to the new companies which are most likely to rip you off? << EC,SP, LI: It could be because they don’t believe those companies will accept them. Those companies are looking for the best writers, those who strive to be pros. The writers who go to companies like Tris or MMP are looking for the easy way to get published. They go to places where there is a damned good chance their work is going to be accepted. New companies crop up every month it seems and they’ll take whatever they can get to have a menu of books. It’s a sad and heartless thing to say, I know, but if you aren’t good enough to get accepted by EC, SP, or LI, you most likely are going to get burned badly. Sure, you’ll get published and you’ll get your name on a cover…likely a piss-poor cover at that…but you can have bragging rights to being published. That’s not always the case; there are good companies other than the top three, but there are more bad ones than good.

20. Shiloh Darke Posted: Jul 21st, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    20 I had met Jen at writing.com and begun to know her as a fellow writer who had a few books under her belt and someone who offered good advice here and there. When she suggested submitting my work to this newer company, I had already submitted to several others and had begun to doubt that I would ever get a serious publisher to even look at me. (Unless you are a newby trying to get your foot in the door, you don’t know how hard it is to make these publishers even look at your work) Don’t misunderstand, I did have some that were interested. Most of them said they liked the stories but they just didn’t fall into the exact genre that they were looking for. I felt somewhat acomplished just to get nicer letters than the usual “We’re just not interested.” The second novel in my Order of Eternals series came out in February, and it has gotten some pretty good reviews. And, just so I can defend my piss-poor cover (good description, by the way). . . I do my own covers. Don’t take offense, please. I’m just joining in. Here’s one review from ParaNormalRomance; http://www.paranormalromance.org/reviews/review.php?id=31484

21. Randi Posted: Jul 21st, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    21 @ Myra: To be fair, there are some really terrible covers at EC, SP, LI, etc, as well. Bad covers do not equal scam artists. Just sayin’.

22. Myra Willingham Posted: Jul 21st, 2009 at 4:51 pm

    22 >>To be fair, there are some really terrible covers at EC, SP, LI, etc, as well. Bad covers do not equal scam artists.<< Oh, I know that for a fact! Most of the truly bad ones were done with Poser…before EC went to live models. They were so horrendous, in fact, I would have been embarrassed to show them had I been the author. We all know of covers that purely suck and EC, SP, and LI have had their share. One company comes readily to mind that has really horrendous covers but I won’t name it because I wouldn’t want to offend the authors who can’t help what they were given. If you do your own cover, more power to you, but a lot of companies don’t allow that. At least if you do them, you have some control over them.

23. Karen Scott Posted: Jul 21st, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    23 For me, Changeling Press still have the worst covers of any of them, by a country mile.

24. Myra Willingham Posted: Jul 21st, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    24 What you said, Karen.

25. Randi Posted: Jul 21st, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    25 Karen, OMG! The cartoon covers! You aren’t kidding. Why? Why would you use cartoons? Just…why?

26. Myra Willingham Posted: Jul 21st, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    26 BTW: Last week I was sent the address for a male model who is doing his own cover shots that authors and publishers can purchase at a vastly discounted rate to what is being offered out there at places like iStockphotos. His name is Jimmy Thomas and you can find him at http://www.romancenovelcovers.com

27. Shiloh Darke Posted: Jul 21st, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    27 I hear what you guys are saying about bad covers. I think if and when I am able to pick myself up and move on, I will try to continue staying on top of my own covers. I know lots of the publishing places don’t let you, but lots of them still give authors the option to do their own. We have been successful on getting MMP down and getting our works off of Fictionwise, Mobipocket, and even Amazon has disabled the buy links, so it looks like everything will be off soon and that is good. One good thing is the review sites that have given us reviews on our stories are keeping the reviews up, but breaking the links to MMP. So the authors really do get to keep what nice things are said about their work. Thanks for being a sounding board. And not judging us too harshly for being the gullible newby’s we were. Trust me, I will think twice before I put blind faith in any publisher again!

28. AztecLady Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 2:00 am

    28 *sliding in for a quick comment before crashing (not yet recovered from RWA exhaustion)* Actually, these are the kind of shenanigans that make it all the more clear that RWA needs to address the lack of information on epublishing in its workshops and loops, etc. And by information, I mean facts–hard figures, contract clauses dissected, publisher costs explained, the process demystified. And to whomever said that she would now be called “new names” for having to accept that she got scammed… I don’t think that Karen gets her jollies out of kicking people when they are down (I certainly don’t), but even if that were the case, it’s more about spreading the word so that aspiring authors learn to trust their guts, to spot the warning flags, to heed that voice droning “Danger, Will Robinson!” so that they do not have to learn by painful experience.

29. P A Matthews Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 3:51 am

    29 AztecLady; Thank you for your post. I did come here with the sole intention of stating what had happened to MMP because I think the entire thing is reprehensible and casts a bad light on legitimate epublishing. I thought this was a tough place which might spread the word about MMP and other scam artists. I don’t write erotica or romance per se (dark fiction and thrillers) but have been told in the past RWA has many sub-genres covering a wide range of writing. I will check them out again to see where my writing may fall in their world. I do agree more publishers and groups need to have hard facts for those who submit. I asked hard questions and was told many lies which continued changing throughout my time with MMP so I pulled the plug on my series. Without my magic eight ball to run interference, I too was ultimately scammed. To this day, after a year and a half, I still don’t have hard figures regarding what I actually sold unit-wise on four stories in the series. The money never received took a back seat to principle of character and my integrity as a writer. Thank you for listening and not calling me a name.

30. L.E. Bryce Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 5:36 am

    30 I know, but if you aren’t good enough to get accepted by EC, SP, or LI, you most likely are going to get burned badly. So if EC, SP, or LI don’t want me, then I automatically suck?

31. Shiloh Darke Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 7:23 am

    31 So if EC, SP, or LI don’t want me, then I automatically suck? The big, most sought after publishers are so busy, they con’t always even bother to look at your writing. Many of them just automatically send you the rejection letter just because you are unknown. Don’t feel bad. No, it doesn’t mean you suck.

32. Mary Winter Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 10:11 am

    32 I blogged today after reading this and EREC, because I went through the Venus Press fading and my heart goes out to the affected authors. So if EC, SP, or LI don’t want me, then I automatically suck? Not at all. And you know what, always shoot high. I don’t think there’s a veteran author who will tell you otherwise. You never know until you try. And if, for whatever reason, they pass, there are plenty of other publishers out there who will gladly take a look. There are plenty of smaller/newer/other publishers who are perfectly legit and would be very pleased to take a look at those subs. Sometimes it helps to be a nicely-sized fish in a smaller pond, than a tiny fish in a big pond. Less chance of getting beached…

33. Mireya Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 10:51 am

    33 For those writing romance, check out Amber Quill Press and Liquid Silver Books as well. Both companies have been around for YEARS. EC, Samhain and Loose Id are not the only established game in town as it pertains to epublished romance. I have been reading their books for as long as I have been reading EC books (6 years or so). The other companies I can think of are still relatively “new” (2 years or less in business).

34. Myra Willingham Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    34 <> No, that’s how you took it. I edit for one of the aforementioned publishers. Unfortunately, most of the writers who submit to all three of those publishers plus others like Amber Quill or LSB and get turned down…as many of them invariably will…then they go to the fly-by-night publishers who will cheat them, give them atrocious covers, and wind up folding with the rights to the writer’s work possibly tied up in bankruptcy court. They are so desperate to get published that they will take anything offered and not bother to investigate that company. You can be the greatest writer out there but if you can’t get accepted by the major players and have to resort to the ‘others’ you MAY NOT be doing yourself any favors.

35. Myra Willingham Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    35 Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t submission to Amber Quill by invitation only?

36. Anon Y Mouse Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    36 The big, most sought after publishers are so busy, they con’t always even bother to look at your writing. Many of them just automatically send you the rejection letter just because you are unknown. Don’t feel bad. No, it doesn’t mean you suck. That’s ridiculous and untrue. It’s lies like this that allow the sheisters to get away with preying on people who assume because they’ve never been published before they need to start with someone new and tiny and work their way up. Publishing is not retail. You do not ‘work your way up.’ You write a great book and if the good companies, the established, legit companies, don’t want it, guess what, it’s not because you’re unknown or because they didn’t read it, it’s because it’s not good enough. So you write another, better book and try again. Don’t spread falsehoods and present your disillusionment and naiveté as fact, Ms. Darke. You clearly have no clue what you’re talking about.

37. Ciar Cullen Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    37 Damn, isn’t there an easier way to scam much more money than starting up a publishing house? Oy. Vey. (Triskelion badge of shame wearer here.)

38. Shiloh Darke Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    38 Don’t spread falsehoods and present your disillusionment and naiveté as fact, Ms. Darke. You clearly have no clue what you’re talking about. I sent to one of the big publishing companies. The one where you have to send your things in SNAIL MAIL, years ago. The reason I said what I did was because they sent my package back to me, complete with the wrapping I had originally put it in. UNTOUCHED. I do know what I am talking about. They had not even opened it. of all of the places I sent to, and I sent to MANY, that was the only one that sent me the standard letter of, we aren’t interested. Every one else had critiqued my work, and said they liked the story but it just wasn’t the genre they were looking for. How many places did you send your work to? Completely untrue, huh? Sounds like you don’t know everything.

39. AztecLady Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    39 Oh dear. Ms (Mr?) Matthews, RWA is not a publisher but a writers’ association, the purpose of which is supposedly to educate writers (both published and those working towards publication) on both the craft and the business sides of writing. Ms Drake, I confess to being absolutely gobsmacked. Is there truly an epublisher out there that requires authors to send submissions via snail mail? Color me incredulous. On the “the big epubs are too busy to accept/read submissions from unknowns” bit, I call hogwash. People, before hopping to submit to any epub, read around. The information is out there. Read the blogs of people who publish with your epub of choice–Sela Carsen, Shannon Stacey, Lauren Dane, Maya Banks, Lauren Dane, Jaci Burton, Beth Williamson, L.B. Gregg, Shiloh Walker, Beth Kery, and many more I’m forgetting to list, post regularly about their publishing experiences. There are also several readers’ blogs that post regularly on the industry–Smart Bitches and Dear Author are but two of these–with facts to back up their posts. Educate yourselves–YOU are your best advocate, no one out there has as much at stake in your career as you do, so take the time to do it right. Oh, and on the “a lawyer checked the contract” thing: one of the things that have been stressed over and over and over in online discussions of publishing contracts is that an author needs to look for qualified counsel. Seriously, a lawyer specialized in property or insurance will have no clue as to the legal terms specific to intellectual property rights. *stepping carefully down from the soap box*

40. Anon Y Mouse Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    40 I sent to one of the big publishing companies. The one where you have to send your things in SNAIL MAIL, years ago. The reason I said what I did was because they sent my package back to me, complete with the wrapping I had originally put it in. UNTOUCHED. I do know what I am talking about. They had not even opened it. of all of the places I sent to, and I sent to MANY, that was the only one that sent me the standard letter of, we aren’t interested. Every one else had critiqued my work, and said they liked the story but it just wasn’t the genre they were looking for. How many places did you send your work to? Completely untrue, huh? Sounds like you don’t know everything. Okay, first of all, there are any number of reasons a manuscript would be returned untouched and unopened. I’m assuming this is not an epublisher, but a NY print pub. From the sounds of it, researching publishing companies doesn’t seem to be your strong suit, Ms. Darke, so I’m going to go on the assumption that most likely it was sent back because a) the pub did not accept unagented submissions, b) you sent it to the wrong person, c) you sent it some form of signature required mail which publishers rarely bother to accept, or any other form of “You didn’t do your research properly”. Another thing authors need to realize is that what the contract says matters, but not as much as you all seem to think. They can *say* whatever they want and then break it, like many many before have. That is why you need to do more research than showing a boilerplate, probably downloaded off the web contract to your cousin Billy the accident lawyer and calling it vetted. You have to research the company. The principals. The other authors. Everything. You have to learn before you submit. Because a shady publisher can put in the contract they’ll pay you a million dollars, but when that person skips town, who are you going to go after for that fictional money? You have to know who you’re going into business with. Otherwise, a contract means nothing, as you’ve all so painfully learned. Remember that next time. As for me, Ms. Darke, I’ve submitted to all but one of the top five epublishers in the business, and sold books to all but one of them. I have over a dozen books published by legit, respected, high-selling epublishers. If it makes you feel better to think I’m some nobody who doesn’t know anything about the publishing industry, that’s fine. But it isn’t me in this sticky wicket, now is it?

41. L.E. Bryce Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    41 That’s ridiculous and untrue. It’s lies like this that allow the sheisters to get away with preying on people who assume because they’ve never been published before they need to start with someone new and tiny and work their way up. Publishing is not retail. You do not ‘work your way up.’ You write a great book and if the good companies, the established, legit companies, don’t want it, guess what, it’s not because you’re unknown or because they didn’t read it, it’s because it’s not good enough. So you write another, better book and try again. Don’t spread falsehoods and present your disillusionment and naiveté as fact, Ms. Darke. You clearly have no clue what you’re talking about. I had the same experience as Shiloh. It just wasn’t the same old cookie-cutter contemporary/shifter crap the Big Three seem to be looking for these days. I do not suck. I may not be perfect, I may not write formula, but I do sell books, and I’m perfectly open to working with editors. And I would take your comments a helluva lot more seriously if you’d actually sign your name.

42. Anon76 Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    42 I’m going to have to interject on this comment from Ms. Darke: “I sent to one of the big publishing companies. The one where you have to send your things in SNAIL MAIL, years ago. The reason I said what I did was because they sent my package back to me, complete with the wrapping I had originally put it in. UNTOUCHED. I do know what I am talking about. They had not even opened it. of all of the places I sent to, and I sent to MANY, that was the only one that sent me the standard letter of, we aren’t interested.” I’m going on the assumption that you sent your book to a big print pub way back when…based on your opening comment. I’m also going on the assumption that you did not read the submission guidelines for that or the other publishers. Did you send a query and wait patiently for a response? Did you send a query and one chapter and wait for the response? Or did you just go bat-out-of-hell and send a full, even to companies who state they need agented submissions? See, these are the things that get your book bumped straight off as not being looked at. Too many people feel, “but my book is special”. Nope, it is NOT. It’s in the lineup with all the other subs coming in. Hence why many big pubs only accept agented submissions. If you can follow the rules to wind up getting an agent, they figure you can follow the rules in the editing process. It’s a bitter pill to swallow, but verra, verra, true.

43. pingback: Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 9:22 pm

    43 Learning From Mistakes | Lex Valentine [...] Karen Knows Best – E-Publisher Does a Runner and Screws Her Authors [...]

44. alisha rai Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    44 At the end of the day, publishing houses exist to make money, not crush author’s dreams. If you follow the rules, no editor would send a form rejection without at least looking at your query letter. It wouldn’t make any sense. Publishing is all about timing and luck. If you do get rejected…try again. Revise. Resubmit. Write something new and completely different. Don’t settle. If your aim is to have a career in this industry, not just see your name in print somewhere (and you can just self-publish if that’s your only dream), then you can’t allow yourself to be a victim of your own desperation.

45. Shiloh Darke Posted: Jul 22nd, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    45 It was quite a while back when I sent to the print publisher. But I DID follow their guidelines and they asked for the query letter and the first three chapters. So, yes…. I checked and rechecked what I was supposed to do. And I sent it as their guidelines requested. This experience was NOT based on epub. I never said it was. I used to be so against that idea cause I knew too little about it. L.E. Thank you for sharing that you had a similar experience. It helps to show that I am NOT just naive (whatever it was Anon says In the end, I did end up going with epub. and the experience wasn’t all bad. I Know, in the end I was getting scammed, but you know what else? I have a complete list of reviews that aren’t going anywhere even without the Publisher. I also have a fanbase, and Since this incident, I have had many of my readers send me emails voicing their concern. If I was no good at it, no one would care. DARKE

46. Mary Winter Posted: Jul 23rd, 2009 at 12:28 am

    46 Damn, isn’t there an easier way to scam much more money than starting up a publishing house? I suspect that there are a lot easier ways to raise money than to start a publishing house. If you’re going to start a publisher, like many things, it has to be for more than the money, that’s for sure. *smiles*

47. K. Z. Snow Posted: Jul 23rd, 2009 at 3:34 am

    47 For those writing romance, check out Amber Quill Press and Liquid Silver Books as well. Both companies have been around for YEARS. EC, Samhain and Loose Id are not the only established game in town I believe AQP only accepts submissions they’ve expressly invited. But, yes, there are other solidly established, professionally run, and highly regarded e-pubs out there.

48. Nora Roberts Posted: Jul 23rd, 2009 at 10:41 am

    48 ~The big, most sought after publishers are so busy, they con’t always even bother to look at your writing. Many of them just automatically send you the rejection letter just because you are unknown.~ This is just silly. Every published author, even brand names, were once unknown. How did they get published if the ‘big’ publishers automatically rejected them? How do the ‘big’ publishers manage to have debut authors in their schedule? Why did I see so many First Sale banners on so many name tags at this year’s RWA conference?

49. Mireya Posted: Jul 23rd, 2009 at 10:46 am

    49 Re: Amber Quill, I apologize, since I am not an author, I wasn’t aware of that. But definitely my point was that there are other, established, epubs out there.

50. Karen Scott Posted: Jul 23rd, 2009 at 10:55 am

    50 Ms Darke, you’ve mentioned your reviews over and over agin as if they’re some sort of consolation after getting shafted by your epub, is that really how you feel? Because if so, I’ve got to tell you, positive reviews don’t mean all that much if you don’t have anywhere for the readers to purchase your books. And I’m sure you know that earning a rating of ’5 orgasms’ or ’5 Golden Panties’ from Bumfuck Review Site probably isn’t going to make a huge difference to your book sales. I’m not saying these things to be cruel Ms Darke, but you still seem awfully naïve about this business, and that’s a worry. Please don’t feel as if this is an attack on you personally, because believe me it really isn’t. I just think it’s important that authors do what’s best for themselves, and not get taken in by unscrupulous arseholes like Mitchell.

51. Shiloh Darke Posted: Jul 23rd, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    51 I do not take offense to anything said. At this point I am the first to admit I am still very naive. Hell, I signed up in a company that took advantage of what I did NOT know. FOR TWO YEARS. I only mentioned reviews after it was suggested that work was picked up by this shity* DID I SAY THAT?* publisher, because works weren’t good enough for the better ones. If and when I send my works to other publishers, It can’t hurt to be able to show those reviews.(then again, that could just be my naiveness talking.) Who am I kidding. Maybe I do suck. But I love to write. At the end of the day, it is my biggest joy. Always was. I admit to not being COMPLETELY in the know about all this. I am a teller of stories. I am NOT much on the business side of things. (I honestly admit it.) Truth is, I am shamefully shy and would never even come back to your site if it had not been for my desire to let people know what had happened to MMP. And the fact that I respected you for your open honesty. I like your honesty, Karen. Not many people are anymore. And I am listening to any and all advice from all of you. I have NOTHING but the most respect for all of those that are offering sound advice. Darke

52. Anon Y Mouse Posted: Jul 23rd, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    52 If and when I send my works to other publishers, It can’t hurt to be able to show those reviews.(then again, that could just be my naiveness talking.) Ms. Darke, I’m honestly not trying to attack you, but you seem so very uneducated about this industry and what does and does not matter to publishers. The truth is, you have gained nothing from this experience with MMP. Your reviews mean nothing and mentioning them, or your ‘publishing experience’ with MMP, is going to do nothing but cast you in a poor light. You haven’t gotten a leg up at all. What matter to publishers is the book you’ve written. Believe me when I say you do not want to include this experience in any way in your future submissions/queries. For NY publishers or agents, there are very few epublishers that count as actual writing credits to an author. I can think of only two epubs where it *might* make a bit of difference to mention being previously published with, and even then only some agents/NY pubs even care about those. Informing them that you were previously published by such a sham operation isn’t going to be a positive. Your very best bet is to forget this experience. Write new books and when you submit them, do not bother to mention this debacle. Doing so would only serve only to put a negative mark in their minds. Forget it and move on and please god don’t put your MMP reviews or books in your queries as ‘experience’.

53. Ghetto Diva Posted: Jul 23rd, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    53 The big, most sought after publishers are so busy, they can’t always even bother to look at your writing. Many of them just automatically send you the rejection letter just because you are unknown. Don’t feel bad. No, it doesn’t mean you suck. When I first mentioned LI, EC, and SP it’s because those are the publishers (successful) that first came to mind. It took me a long time to get published with LI, after numerous rejections. But you know what you live and you learn. Not to say that Liquid Silver and Amber Quill aren’t successful too-they have been around for quite some time. My point is you just have to try and try, and keep trying until you get in with a company that’s going to be around for a long time, and then you begin to feel even more proud of your work. My work has been at OMP, Venus, and another dump company. It took me 3 years to be successful at what I do. You can’t just give up, because you get a few rejection letters. I’ve had quite a few of those.

54. Shiloh Darke Posted: Jul 23rd, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    54 You can’t just give up, because you get a few rejection letters. I’ve had quite a few of those. Thanks for that. Believe me, I am NOT quitting. I love the characters in my stories too much for that! LOL… Does that sound stupid? Funny, but to me, if I give up, then that would be like letting them die.

55. Rita Posted: Jul 24th, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    55 I have to say I did go with a small epub. Not becuase I didn’t think bigger epubs wouldn’t have time to evaluate my work, or that they wouldn’t like it. I listened to fellow authors and decided to give a few a try. So far my experiences have been positive. Does that mean I’ll never shoot for one of those bigger houses? No. That would be stupid on my part. However being new to the publishing game I have heard stories about how long ago people would start of with houses like Harlequin while still learning the craft before moving on to bigger houses. So why is it a crime to want to give a newer epub a try? Not all of them are shifty.

56. Myra Willingham Posted: Jul 26th, 2009 at 7:19 am

    56 It’s not a crime to try a new epub. Just be very careful. Ask around about the owners of that epub. If they’ve failed once, chances are very good they’ll fail again. If they’ve cheated writers the first go ’round, you can bet your bottom dollar they will cheat them again. You may regret your involvement or you may rejoice in it. You have to hope for the best and if it doesn’t work out, just remember to maintain a professional attitude throughout.

57. Ghetto Diva Posted: Jul 27th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    57 So why is it a crime to want to give a newer epub a try? Not all of them are shifty. Rita- I never said it was a crime to try a new publishing house, BUT most of them cannot be trusted. It’s a sad fact. OMP, Mardigras, Venus Press, Silks Vault, New Concepts Publishing, and I can name some more-that have robbed people of their royalties. It’s not a crime to try a new epub. Just be very careful. Ask around about the owners of that epub. Myra-Again I never said it was a crime, but most of them don’t last. And basically, most of the owners of the epubs have never been heard of. Who the hell are you going to ask about them if that’s the case? And what if the owners, desperate to steal royalties, spreads lies? Your taking a huge chance of being screwed up the ass. Harsh, but true.

58. Roslyn Holcomb Posted: Jul 27th, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    58 I too agree that it’s nonsense to think that publishers ignore newbie writers. Are you going to get the same attention as a big name? Of course not. After all, they’re in business to make money. And big names are a bird in the hand. But I can’t imagine that there’s a publisher out there who ignores newbie submissions, and I would be very shocked if there was an epub who did so. Having already been hosed by a print publisher I was very careful when I chose epublishing. I asked around. Read the blogs. In a word, did my homework. I knew that no matter what, I wanted to avoid drama at all costs. I submitted my manuscript to five epubs that had good reputations. Keep in mind, I’m no ‘big name,’ but I heard back from Loose-Id in less than two weeks. So far I’ve had two books with them and am about the contract the third. My advice would be to stick with the folks who’ve been around a while and have a good name. If they reject you, table that book and write another. In fact, once you finish a book, you should immediately start working on the next one. When they buy your book the editor always wants to know what else you have. I know that I made the mistake of writing one book and then working so hard on selling it that I didn’t bother to write another. Don’t do that. Keep writing, no matter what.