56 piped up to “Author, Cheryl Holt Dissed And Dismissed By New Editor?”

1. Myra Willingham Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 10:59 am

   1 I’m sorry but that whole response reeks. Why would any author admit such things to a reader? It makes her sound pathetic, ineffective and self-pitying. I seriously doubt ANY editor would re-write someone’s book. If her schedule is such she can do that, she isn’t editing at all. I barely have time to wipe my summer flu nose much less re-write one of my author’s books. The whole thing smacks of bizarre and if she really did write this: “Poor, poor pitiful me”. Nope, not buying it.

2. Emmy Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 11:23 am

   2 Bitter much? I have a very hard time believing that an author would unload on a fan that way after a simple question. And if she did…well, she really needs to find a happy place. Hopefully she’s not sending out a version of this to everyone who sends her an email, or she shan’t have many fans left to buy the new release.

3. Angela James Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 12:22 pm

   3 I seriously doubt ANY editor would re-write someone’s book. Yes, it does happen. And it does happen without the author’s knowledge. (I feel obligated to say that not every editor does it, and I think it’s a terrible breach of the editorial relationship, but it certainly does occur.)

4. Anonymous Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 12:31 pm

   4 I’m guessing there’s some truth to this. First, I know some authors with Grand Central, and they are notorious for demanding rewrites. Second, this is the Publisher’s Marketplace data reported on Cheryl Holt: March 24, 2009 Fiction: Women’s/Romance NYT bestselling author Cheryl Holt’s next three works of sexy historical romance, to Cindy Hwang at Berkley, in a very nice deal, by Karen Solem at Spencerhill Associates December 10, 2007 Fiction: Women’s/Romance Cheryl Holt’s three historical romance novels, to Amy Pierpont at Grand Central, by Irene Goodman. Those Grand Central books really did never go anywhere, and it looks like she changed agents, got a new publisher, and got a SERIOUS reduction in advance money.

5. MB (Leah) Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 1:33 pm

   5 Wow, what strikes me here first thing is that I’m appalled that the “fan” posted this “private” email publicly unless she got Cheryl Holt’s permission to do so. I know that emails can’t be counted on as private, but still, this isn’t from an author loop, it’s a private communication between Ms. Holt and a reader. As far as an author being a bit naive writing like that to a “fan,” I think there are authors who get closer to some readers and feel comfortable bitching or sharing more personal things. It’s not that far fetched that an author would write that to a reader. Although in this case, it comes across as Ms. Holt not really knowing Sue personally, since this email has a more formal or newslettery tone to it.

6. vanessa jaye Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 1:57 pm

   6 Not picking on anyone here, we all have our own individual opinions/reactions to this email. Also, I do not know Cheryl from Adam nor would I say I’m a fan girl, although I have read a couple of her books in the past. But Karen wasn’t the only person whose attention I drew to the post at RT. I also included several crit partners in the email, and while we all felt it should be taken with a grain of salt, I’d say we were all in sympathy with CH. As Angie stated it would seem to be a breach of the editor/author relationship. I don’t see the email as bitter or reeking of self-pity, but it’s definitely emotional. All the references to the makeover, the new and improved her, the attached picture and the new fan club absolutely points to some serious damage having been down to her self-esteem prior to this re-launch. Whether that damage came wholly and specifically from this situation (as alleged) is another matter. Although you’d think her agent would have been a huge buffer in the situation so perhaps the opinions attributed to the editor were more inferred or reading between the lines than actual statements. But I will agree that this wasn’t an email to reply to a ‘fan’ with. Better she should have commiserated with friends/family in private. Also don’t think it was a great idea for her fan to post the email in its entirety on a popular web site. A simple: “I’ve been in touch with CH, she has changed publishing houses and is currently working on a new series that should be out sometime in 2010″, would have sufficed.

7. Christine Rimmer Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 2:56 pm

   7 Who knows who did what, in the end. I’ve never had an ed try to rewrite a book on me, but I have friends who have had that experience and it is terrible, trying, destructive of the author’s creative process. And that’s without the added serious blow to a career. Had it happened to me, I actually might have done what Cheryl Holt did (No, don’t know her;never met her) if without good author friends to order me to write whatever I wanted to the fan–and then wait 24 hours to send it. My butt is constantly saved by friends who understand–and by the “write it and do NOT send it for a whole day” technique. Some things may need to be written. But they don’t need to be sent.

8. AztecLady Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 3:22 pm

   8 I’m with Leah–posting an email without express permission? Total breach of privacy and good manners, IMneverHO. As for the author writing that to a fan, I agree that it was probably not the best judgement call to air all that laundry to someone Ms Hold didn’t really know all that well–look where the email ended up–but at least there was no naming of the editor in question.

9. Anon Y Mouse Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 3:37 pm

   9 While I agree it’s not the brightest thing to send to a fan, I don’t think it reeks of self-pity either. It sounds like she had a shit hand dealt, got knocked down and is trying to get back up despite the blows. From the sounds of it, she lost 3 full manuscripts in the Grand Central mess. That is NOT something to sneer at, 3 full length novels is a year or two of work for most writers! Would you think it was self-pity if someone had completed an 18 month long construction job, for example, and then got shafted on it? I feel for her, and while I’ve never been a fan of her books I’m still glad to hear she’s recovering from the brouhaha and continuing on with a new agent, new publisher and, hopefully, a not batshit insane editor.

10. Anonymous2 Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    10 There are two sides to every story. Chances are very good that this isn’t exactly what happened.

11. Jill Sorenson Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    11 Many books go through copy edits–smaller changes–without author input. But a complete rewrite, as in 50% or more of the book is changed? I can’t imagine an editor doing that on her own.

12. Jenns Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    12 If this is true, I can definitely feel for Cheryl Holt. Venting to your readers, though … It just strikes me as a bad idea. Unprofessional and inappropriate.

13. Dee Tenorio Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    13 I can imagine it. I can also imagine an author breaking a writer down until it’s like an abusive boyfriend and you’re absolutely sure you have no idea how to write a complete sentence without sounding like an idiot. Been there, done that, got derailed for three years because of it. If this experience has happened to Holt, she deserves some support because she’s trying to put herself and her career back together. She may well come out stronger on the other side, but I’m willing to overlook some bad judgment in sharing this much with a fan on her road to recovery. Especially as–if this is true–backlash will be one more blow she’ll have to take. Dee

14. Jill Sorenson Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    14 I’m not saying I don’t believe her. I’m just…shocked. I’m also a big fan. Loved The Way of the Heart.

15. AztecLady Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    15 You know, the whole thing about “no editor would…”? Editors are no more the borg than readers or writers, are they? So I can easily believe that there would be one (or more) editors who would behave in such an unprofessional manner. I do hope it’s a minority of editors, just as I like to think that only a minority of authors would blast their readers, or that a minority of readers would lie to authors (or work the system, or cheat, etc) to get free books. In other words, I hope it’s a minority of people that’s screwed up that far. If that makes sense…

16. Dee Tenorio Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    16 Nope, that makes total sense. Like they said earlier, I take any fan posted emails with a grain of salt. Maybe a bottle. I’m just in the camp that doesn’t want people thinking it’s not possible. But, as AztecLady reminds, hopefully, it’s a minority of folks who are like that.

17. JulieLeto Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    17 If, according to the Publisher’s Marketplace announcements, the editor is who I think she is, I can only say that I wrote for her and I think she’s hands-down one of the best editors in this business. I worked on three books for her and a novella and I never was asked to do anything that infringed on my voice or changed what I set out to do with my work. I learned so much from her. She’s amazing. Now, maybe author and editor and their visions did not click. It happens all the time. It can be a soul-sucking experience for both the author and the editor. I’ve certainly had it happen to me (though not with this editor!) I would not, however, go around posting about those bad experiences online. Only copious amounts of tequila will loosen my tongue.

18. SarahT Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    18 Cheryl Holt was certainly ill-advised to write such personal information to a fan but the fan shouldn’t have copied and pasted private correspondence. I’m inclined to believe Cheryl. People are bullied in every profession. Why not writing? Why would we assume that every agent and editor is nice to their authors? Whatever the truth, I wish Cheryl every success in the future.

19. Amarinda Jones Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    19 I could see talking to a friend like that but not a reader. As for all the problems Cheryl is having – I’m sorry for her but it happens all the time in this book writing business and you have to publicly have a tough skin and deal with it

20. vanessa jaye Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 8:04 pm

    20 I was just on Cheryl’s site to see if there was any info on her upcoming releases and noticed that there’s a somewhat sanitized version of this email included in her lastest newsletter posted on her site (bolding mine): I was presented with a great chance to change my life by moving to Grand Central Publishing, where I was to be the lead author in their Forever line of romances. However, after I delivered the first manuscript, my new editor hated everything about it, and I was forced into an exhaustive and pointless round of rewrites. I spent 8 1/2 months trying to fix the manuscript, and she still did not feel that it was satisfactory for publication. I threw up my hands in frustration and left the company. There’s definitely some bad blood there between her and her past editor. The thing, is none of us (general public) should know that. Maybe she’ll snip that bit out with her next site update. :-/

21. maddie Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    21 I just want to know why some are questioning why she disclosed something so personal like it’s a weakness to say that you were done wrong by some one you trusted. Look what she wrote “In early ’08, I had left my long-time publisher, St. Martins, and moved to Grand Central Publishing to be the lead author in their Forever line of romances, but when I delivered the first manuscript, my new editor hated everything about it. She constantly told me that I didn’t know how to write a book, that I didn’t know how to write a character or draft a hero! It was very destructive to my morale and my confidence” She made a choice to move to another Pub, a choice that did not end well so of course she is going to be hurt, something that should have been a joyful moment of celebrating turn sour to the point of her questioning her own judgment, like Dee said it’s like an abusive boyfriend chipping away at you, you do not know what going on until your self esteem is in shambles.

22. AztecLady Posted: Aug 2nd, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    22 I think, maddie, that it’s like this: it’s not fair, but authors are also their own PR people. Complaining publicly (first to a reader that Ms Holt had no way of knowing was trustworthy, then in her own site) about her difficulties with an editor and a publisher–regardless of how innocent Ms Holt may or may not be–is liable to create the impression, in some readers as well as in some industry professionals, that she may be difficult to work with. Generally speaking, that can make things difficult for the author in the long run. Mind, that is exactly the kind of veiled threat that some less than legit publishers use on writers (i.e., “we’ll make sure you get blacklisted if you complain”)so many authors find themselves caught in the middle of untenable situations with very little recourse. Again, not fair, but a reality of the business side of writing that authors (published and aspiring) may want to keep in mind.

23. Ames Posted: Aug 3rd, 2009 at 1:01 am

    23 Now, maybe author and editor and their visions did not click. It happens all the time. It can be a soul-sucking experience This is what I was thinking–and of course, I’m sure there’s more to the story–but I also agree that it wasn’t the wisest email to send to a fan–a friend yes, but not a fan. I’d send something like that to Jen (because I know her and she’s a fan and a friend) but any other reader? No. And Anon even though we don’t know the whole story, I’d *guess* that she didn’t write the other two books for Pocket. I don’t know for sure, because I’m not a reader of hers, but that would be my guess.

24. Ang Posted: Aug 3rd, 2009 at 4:21 am

    24 Wow. This is why I grow irritated with the romance blogosphere. Whenever something in this vein crops up, it seems folks are extremely quick to castigate an author for revealing her situation and “naming names” and doubt their truthfulness. What I find extremely alarming is that if Holt were an e-pub author, everyone on the outside would be falling all over themselves to point their fingers and say “see, I told you XXX e-publisher was a fraud!” and “we need more transparency in e-publishing!”. Yet, because this is a major NY publisher, the author is in the wrong for speaking out, she’s “self-pitying,” and “pathetic” and of course the situation could never be 100% true. Is everyone (writers mainly) so frightened of being “blacklisted” if they even take a side in this sort of situation that they’ll throw a fellow author to the wolves to save their (potential) career? Yes, this is an individual situation, but sympathizing with Holt and shaking your head over the actions of the editor is not going to put your name in the vat of “You’ll Never Work in This Industry Ever Again.” Isn’t this nervous tittering and turning your back on a wronged author why newbie authors end up in bad situations (like bad contracts, shady e-pubs, etc)? Seems to me the quest to get published and remain published turns everyone into dog eat dog and who cares about the truth. Also, I find Holt’s candor refreshing. Note, she didn’t say “Grand Central sucks” or “my agent/editor sucked so I left them.” It was a parting of ways after things didn’t work out. I don’t understand why her speaking out on it is so horrifying. I think that if everyone feels entitled to an author’s personal life (hence the push for blogs, twitter, myspace, etc), this comes with it.

25. Edie Posted: Aug 3rd, 2009 at 5:24 am

    25 While I agree that it probably would have been better kept amongst friends (Ang has made me stop and think, it would seem not as ‘unprofessional’ from a smaller epub author, mmm) I can also see that after about 8 years of solid releases (from my observations as a bookseller not a fan) that this experience would be totally demoralising, and I dare say she would be getting a fairly regular stream of emails asking after new releases and frustration could lead to wanting to explain the situation. I think it is extremely dodgy that the “fan” posted the entire email though.

26. maddie Posted: Aug 3rd, 2009 at 10:52 am

    26 @ Ang Thank You Thank You Thank You. This world is becoming a scary world where if you do speak out your some how a traitor, or lying, or “batshit” crazy. How about you want to be honest with what you went through!! It’s becoming that if you do speak out you will be punished in some way or another.

27. Ames Posted: Aug 3rd, 2009 at 4:37 pm

    27 Wow. This is why I grow irritated with the romance blogosphere. Whenever something in this vein crops up, it seems folks are extremely quick to castigate an author for revealing her situation and “naming names” Sorry but if it was me, and if it had been an epub, I still would have kept my mouth shut…discretion being the better part of valor and all that. Yes, authors talk to other authors but there is something to be said for NOT airing your dirty laundry. Maybe it is a double standard as far as epub vs print pub. I dunno but the author’s not talking and I seriously doubt the editor will pop in here so it is and probably will remain a story of he said/she said/the truth.

28. Jane Posted: Aug 3rd, 2009 at 4:47 pm

    28 1. Totally indiscreet of Holt to share this with fan 2. Totally inappropriate for fan to share this information without permission, if that is what happened. 3. Authors should be able to comment on an editing process that was unusual or did not live up to their expectations because that is knowledge authors need to know when determining when and where to send their books. 4. As a reader, I don’t care if the author is hard to work with in the editing process. I care about the end product. Now, you can argue that if the book sucks, the posts about the editing process will get referenced. 5. There have been a number of authors who left Warner after Melanie Murray left but there are definitely authors who have stayed.

29. Shiloh Walker Posted: Aug 3rd, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    29 Tricky. While I can understand CH wanting to explain why her books have been delayed, I’m not sure I would have gone into that much detail. I probably just would have left it at “I parted ways with my previous pub but more books are forthcoming.” I do feel that if there is an editor ‘rewriting’ an author’s work, that’s something that will/can affect other authors, so it’s definitely something writers would be interested in. Publicly reposting an email without permission, though, strikes me as pretty much wrong.

30. JenB Posted: Aug 3rd, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    30 This is what I was thinking–and of course, I’m sure there’s more to the story–but I also agree that it wasn’t the wisest email to send to a fan–a friend yes, but not a fan. I’d send something like that to Jen (because I know her and she’s a fan and a friend) but any other reader? No. Thanks, Ames. I agree this isn’t an email that should’ve gone out just to a fan. Maybe a fan that also happened to be a friend or that was also in the business and knew about discretion and confidentiality, but not just some random person. I know some experiences can be so overwhelming that at time it does feel nice to unload on a stranger, but not at the expense of one’s dignity or public image. Looks like CH was having a rough time and had a momentary lapse in judgment. But even though she made a mistake in airing her dirty laundry to a stranger, I still think the “fan” is the bad guy in this situation. Posting private emails is very tacky.

31. Katiebabs Posted: Aug 3rd, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    31 It shows you must be very careful what you say in an email and to whom. I am surprised the fan copied and pasted the whole email. I wonder what Cheryl’s relationship is to her?

32. Sheila Posted: Aug 3rd, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    32 I think that sometimes we forget that there are real people in our cyber world. Real people who feel like trusted friends because you “talk” to them online. Real people who you feel you can say something private to because you’ve been hurt and you need to vent. Real people who will share private things, gossip and tell secrets. I have worked with CH for a number of years and know that there are a handful of her fans that she feels very close to. She sincerely cares about those people. Now, in addition to her other troubles, she gets to know that someone she trusted shared a private email. I have no additional insight to what happened at Grand Central. I don’t know the editor except in passing. I tend to believe, as someone else mentioned, that there was a difference in creative opinion that couldn’t be resolved. That doesn’t make CH feel any less hurt. I don’t feel the email was pitiful. It seemed to come from the heart to someone she obviously felt she could trust. The fact that she got picked up elsewhere and is going to give it another try shows strength IMHO.

33. Angela James Posted: Aug 3rd, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    33 As an editor, I appreciate the people in this thread who’ve pointed out we probably will never know both sides. I feel guilty, because I didn’t point that out when I originally posted. It’s unlikely that the editor in question will ever post her “side”, and I think that’s how it should be, but I also think that it’s not a great place to be in, not being able to defend yourself. I agree this letter should never have been made public, I was surprised when I read it originally and if I were the one who’d written the letter (no matter how ill-advised the writing) and whose misplaced faith had been violated on top of obviously feeling frustrated with my career, I’d be devastated.

34. Shannon Stacey Posted: Aug 3rd, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    34 Just as “irreconcilable differences” is used in divorce, I think “creative differences” should have been used here. Explaining she’d parted ways with her publisher due to creative differences and is hoping to announce good news soon with regard to her new publisher would have served just as well.

35. Mireya Posted: Aug 3rd, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    35 Editing sorry!

36. Mireya Posted: Aug 3rd, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    36 Sorry about that. First of all, how do people know that the author didn’t know that that information was not going to be made public. Frankly, she’s been in the business for quite a while, I am having some trouble with this assumption. Second, I have been friends with editors ( and one of my best friends was an editor for years). I wonder how that editor is feeling. There are two sides to every story, and like someone very wisely said, we’ll never get to learn the other side of this particular story.

37. Larissa Posted: Aug 4th, 2009 at 1:28 am

    37 “I’m guessing there’s some truth to this. First, I know some authors with Grand Central, and they are notorious for demanding rewrites.” I wasn’t going to chime in, but… (famous last words.) Yes, GCP is notorious for rewrites, BUT…they aren’t rewrites for the sake of making an author just…rewrite. No, I don’t know anything about Ms. Holt’s situation, but, like Julie Leto, I have worked with the editor Ms. Holt sold to, and after 4 books with the company and 3 books where I worked my ass off with that editor, I can honestly say that I don’t ever want said editor to leave me. Her insights are amazing — she doesn’t let me get away with anything, but she is very supportive, even if something is really, really not working. Rewrites are sometimes part of the business. You write each book hoping it’s so perfect that it’ll go straight to copyedits, but chances are…you’ve got a lot of work ahead of you in revisions. You hope it doesn’t go as far as a total rewrite, but sometimes it happens. It sucks, and it IS demoralizing to realize that what you wrote isn’t working in any way. But hopefully you’ve got a supportive editor who helps you through the process and helps you learn as well. I thank my lucky stars every day that I’m with an editor who makes me work my butt off to write the best book possible. Again, I don’t know anything about Ms. Holt’s situation, but my situation at the publisher is a good one, and I just wanted to chime in as one of the happy authors.

38. che Posted: Aug 4th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    38 I don’t think I’ve ever read a Cheryl Holt book, so I’m not defending her. I would hope the fan received permission from CH to publish the e-mail in it’s entirity, and she should have stated so at the RT post. Anyhow, I can see Ang’s point. Let’s pretend Grand Central is an e-publisher, and let’s pretend CH tells Karen that her e-pub hasn’t paid her in months and Karen posts a blog about it. Let’s pretend several GC authors chime in that they have never missed a check, thus trying to invalidate CH’s argument. Imagine what the comments would be to CH and the e-pub supporters? I really feel for the author who get’s a bum rap like that. Did GC send out a call to arms to its authors to defend the e-pub? Loyalty’s an admirable thing, but if there’s problems, don’t you others should know about it? Etc, etc. Man, you can really see the difference in responses vis a vis an author of a NY pub and those with e-pubs,

39. Charlie Posted: Aug 4th, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    39 Wow. And I thought working in the banking industry was rough and tumble. These folks play for keeps!

40. Karen Scott Posted: Aug 4th, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    40 Author Comment To be fair though, I think that traditional publishers have earned the right for people not to automatically believe they’re in the wrong.People are never going to get as heated over authors complaining about a house like Kensington, as they would over a Triskelion. Sucks, but that’s life.

41. Janice Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 12:31 am

    41 The posting is basically copyright infringement. Email is someone’s written work, and technically it can’t be published or posted by someone else without permission. (From “Law for Artists” course, graduate school.)

42. Jane Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 1:03 am

    42 Assuming that the email is subject to copyright protection, Holt would have to register the copyright before she could sue for any damages. At most she could only get an injunction for the email to not be republished.

43. sybil Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 2:25 am

    43 Do editors not read authors before buying them? Holt had a ‘style’ what on earth did she think she was buying? NOT to say she didn’t need an editor but readers liked what she was putting out and uh… it was the same for the last few years… I know I had been trying to quit her for years. I couldn’t understand why I liked her to begin with, I shall blame karen. the email to the fan… not at all shocking… the post without permission less shocking

44. Karen Scott Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 5:41 am

    44 Author Comment Syb, I’ll happily take the blame, seeing as CH was an author I used to read regularly. Even though I knew her work was repetitive, badly in need of editing, and lacked cohesion a lot of the times, her books had inexplicable crack-like qualities, heh. Do you remember when she referred to herself as ‘The Queen of Erotic Romance’? I mean come on, in what universe was that true?

45. Sheila Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 5:50 am

    45 The “Queen of Erotic Romance” title was not something CH made up herself. It came from a review. I think you can find it on the BN.com site. So I guess in the BN.com universe that is true.

46. Karen Scott Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 9:12 am

    46 Author Comment Sheila, by that same reasoning, could we not also label her as the Queen of Skank if that had been included in a review? If I wrote a review that included that title, would I be quoted forever more? Just check out some of the AAR reviews of her work, and see how many of them are calling her the Queen of Erotic Romance.

47. Mireya Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 10:52 am

    47 I am sorry but in an RT Convention a few years back she was announced as “the Queen of Erotic Romance”. I was not there, but at the time, I was very active in the erotic romance world, with friends who attended, and the reports reached me. She may not have coined it, but her RT posse (RT has always had a “thing” for her) sure did.

48. katiebabs Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    48 CH the Queen of Erotic Romance? These are the same books where the heroine doesn’t know what a penis looks like or how it works?

49. Sheila Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    49 Professionally speaking, if someone else in the industry gives you a title, you can use it. Quotes work that way. Her publisher at the time also grabbed onto that and used it as part of her promotional material. I am certain that if B&N (or RT) labeled her as “Queen of Skank” she would not use that, but it would be blog fodder forever by others. All I am saying is that it wasn’t CH who made that up. Her publisher at that time promoted the title. Whether or not CH should go around telling people she is “Queen of Erotic Romance” is a different issue than whether or not it is a self-imposed title. If you hit the NY Times and USA Today and an industry leader gave you a great professional title that you had every right to use would you use it?

50. Dee Tenorio Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    50 I’m not picking on her, I just always thought that nothing was considered a “fact” unless it could be quoted from at least three sources. If there were three places that referred to her as Queen of Erotic Romance–professional reviewers–before she referred to herself that way publicly, I think folks would snicker less about it. I mean, my Mom says I’m the best writer in the world. I don’t include that in my bio. You know? Dee

51. Mora Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    51 che- There’s a big difference between a publisher not paying or paying late, and between an author who doesn’t like an editor’s editing style. One is unethical. The other might be unfortunate, but doesn’t necessarily mean something nefarious is going on. If someone came on here saying that her editor at Samhain was a big meanie, I surely wouldn’t be in these comments saying how awful Samhain is. I’d say pretty much what I say in this situation–I’m sorry Holt had a bad time of it, but this is only one, very biased, side of the story. Quite honestly, my first thought at reading her remarks was that, after years of being allowed to get away with sloppy writing at her old publishing house, she pitched an Anne Rice when an editor actually wanted her to do substantial edits. But who will ever know either way? Which is why saying stuff like this doesn’t really help anything.

52. Sheila Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    52 If a top industry reviewer gave a quote giving you a fantastic title you would use it. There’s no set rules to that. Though I have to say I like the 3-times rule if you’re going to call yourself something. But, that’s not an industry rule. Industry says you can use a quote if you get one. It just doesn’t say how you can use it. IMHO there is a difference between getting a quote from your friends, a casual blog or your Mom and getting one from Barnes & Noble, RT or an industry expert. I just Googled the quote and I find that it was used by RT (I think someone else here already said that), Barnes & Noble, her publisher’s site, Amazon, LibraryThing and a few other places where CH herself did not post it. One called her “One of the top 25 erotic writers of all time”. But, not the “Queen”. Does that now mean the quote is a “fact”? I don’t know. I guess I just felt the need to discuss this particular issue since I knew the quote came from someone other than CH herself.

53. Karen Scott Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 4:27 pm

    53 Author Comment Sheila, I totally agree that one is entitled to use a quote from such an established company, but I think it was this interview that she did for RT, that put me off her quite a bit. Now I like her books, but I don’t think there’s any getting away from how badly written some of her stuff are. Here are some of her words from that interview: “I’m the Queen of erotic romance and the International Queen of Villains, I write some of the best villains that has ever been created in fiction. “I write some of the greatest love stories ever told” “The pacing, very fast pacing. By the time a reader opens the first page, they are so excited that they can’t stop reading till the end. I write high entertainment value books.” Listen, I don’t have a problem with people blowing their own trumpet, but when that trumpet is old and rusty, it’s hard on the ears. Cheryl Holt’s fans (and I used to count myself as one of them) may love her books, but I do think that the majority of us know that her work really isn’t that great, and had I not been a fan, any review that I did of her books would probably have included the words, ‘Queen of Skank’, because in all truthfulness, some of her books really did suck great big hairy donkey balls.

54. Sybil Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    54 correct me if I am wrong but can’t anyone put a review on B&N just like Amazon… pretty sure if I wanted to I could take a review on tgtbtu, put it on amazon and B&N and poof you got something in three places next And I say this as someone who liked, bought and at one point owned all of Holt’s books. I am almost beyond sure I have gotten rid of them all now. She is the one that loved to do the brother sister villian sexing IIRC but I don’t even think she can claim to ‘own’ that trend didn’t Small ‘do it first’.

55. Sheila Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    55 Karen I have to admit that I had not seen that interview. And I can see how that would put someone off. I can’t really say whether that kind of self promotion is good or not, or if it sells books or not, but in this particular industry (romance) I think it is less accepted to come across as bragging. My interactions with CH, though few, have been very professionally handled. And I have had occasion to speak to her personally and hear how much she cares about people. We all have our flaws. I know I do. I don’t represent CH nor am I here on her behalf. It is just that my own personal experience with that author has been very positive and so I was saddened to see that someone she trusted shared that personal email. I think blogs like this open up a way to communicate these types of events and whether someone agrees or disagrees with me at least we all have the chance to discuss it. Sybil- as far as anyone putting reviews on those bookseller sites, you’re correct. But, these were put up by the booksellers themselves. And usually that kind of thing comes from the publisher. It would be a perfect world if authors could tell BN and Amazon what to say about them on the product page.

56. pingback: Posted: Aug 5th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    56 Jackie Barbosa » Blog Archive » WTF Wednesday: How Much Honesty Is Too Much? [...] Holt revealed on a reader forum that, after changing publishers, she’d had significant disputes with her new editor (who [...]