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	<title>Comments on: Quartet Press Are Dead?</title>
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	<link>http://karenknowsbest.com/2009/09/09/quartet-press-are-dead/</link>
	<description>The book crazy blogger who has an opinion on everything, from Britney Spears to the global economy</description>
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		<title>By: Anon76</title>
		<link>http://karenknowsbest.com/2009/09/09/quartet-press-are-dead/comment-page-3/#comment-45367</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon76</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenknowsbest.com/?p=4696#comment-45367</guid>
		<description>Okay, Melissa, I do have to call you on your post about AJ supporting your visions of &quot;smut or not smut&quot;. That because she posted articles on that one site she is then in your camp, but a hypocrite because she won&#039;t say so. 

This is copied from the second weblink you provided, and it states: 

Links in the left sidebar lead to an eclectic mix of articles offering advice, insightful commentary, interviews, and information about erotica in the news and in society. Links in the right sidebar lead to a variety of book and movie reviews.

AJ is in the left sidebar and the posts are all about digital technology. And many of the articles on the left sidebar have nothing to do with erotica, per se. They are indeed an &quot;eclectic mix&quot; of articles dealing with a number of topics in the publishing world.

Now, I&#039;m not an AJ cheerleader, but I certainly give her the right to squawk on this account. I call &quot;bullshit&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, Melissa, I do have to call you on your post about AJ supporting your visions of &#8220;smut or not smut&#8221;. That because she posted articles on that one site she is then in your camp, but a hypocrite because she won&#8217;t say so. </p>
<p>This is copied from the second weblink you provided, and it states: </p>
<p>Links in the left sidebar lead to an eclectic mix of articles offering advice, insightful commentary, interviews, and information about erotica in the news and in society. Links in the right sidebar lead to a variety of book and movie reviews.</p>
<p>AJ is in the left sidebar and the posts are all about digital technology. And many of the articles on the left sidebar have nothing to do with erotica, per se. They are indeed an &#8220;eclectic mix&#8221; of articles dealing with a number of topics in the publishing world.</p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;m not an AJ cheerleader, but I certainly give her the right to squawk on this account. I call &#8220;bullshit&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Shiloh Walker</title>
		<link>http://karenknowsbest.com/2009/09/09/quartet-press-are-dead/comment-page-3/#comment-45307</link>
		<dc:creator>Shiloh Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenknowsbest.com/?p=4696#comment-45307</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Woah! Shiloh, do you realize that romance publishers &amp; editors are actively courting people who write “smut”?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Melissa, I think I made it pretty clear that I don&#039;t consider romance &quot;smut&quot;.  Nor do I consider erotic romance &quot;smut&quot;.  I view the term &quot;smut&quot; as something that has little or no value, and that is certainly not how I view romance or erotic romance.

please note, I very clearly said:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
However, I see smut as a far different cry from good romance or good erotic romance.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If I choose to get irritated over the term &quot;smut&quot;, it isn&#039;t because I view &quot;smut&quot; as the same as erotic romance.

It isn&#039;t. For me, the term &quot;smut&quot; is interchangeable with &quot;trash.&quot;  And for me, the term &quot;smut&quot; is NOT interchangeable with &quot;erotic romance HIM&quot; or &quot;romance&quot;.


&lt;blockquote&gt;Don’t like smut? Don’t write for folks who ask for it and publish it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;ll write for whom I choose, thank you.  

If EC, Samhain, Berkley and Ballnatine suddenly start putting out a call for &quot;smut&quot; versus &quot;romance&quot; or &quot;erotic romance&quot;, I may well reconsider who I write for.  But they ask for romance or erotic romance, and that&#039;s what I deliver. 

If you view &quot;smut&quot; the same as &quot;erotic romance&quot;, that&#039;s perfectly fine-I&#039;m not say you have to see it the same way I do.  But likewise, you also can&#039;t tell me that I&#039;m not entitled to view the issue exactly as I choose to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Woah! Shiloh, do you realize that romance publishers &amp; editors are actively courting people who write “smut”?</p></blockquote>
<p>Melissa, I think I made it pretty clear that I don&#8217;t consider romance &#8220;smut&#8221;.  Nor do I consider erotic romance &#8220;smut&#8221;.  I view the term &#8220;smut&#8221; as something that has little or no value, and that is certainly not how I view romance or erotic romance.</p>
<p>please note, I very clearly said:</p>
<blockquote><p>
However, I see smut as a far different cry from good romance or good erotic romance.</p></blockquote>
<p>If I choose to get irritated over the term &#8220;smut&#8221;, it isn&#8217;t because I view &#8220;smut&#8221; as the same as erotic romance.</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t. For me, the term &#8220;smut&#8221; is interchangeable with &#8220;trash.&#8221;  And for me, the term &#8220;smut&#8221; is NOT interchangeable with &#8220;erotic romance HIM&#8221; or &#8220;romance&#8221;.</p>
<blockquote><p>Don’t like smut? Don’t write for folks who ask for it and publish it.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ll write for whom I choose, thank you.  </p>
<p>If EC, Samhain, Berkley and Ballnatine suddenly start putting out a call for &#8220;smut&#8221; versus &#8220;romance&#8221; or &#8220;erotic romance&#8221;, I may well reconsider who I write for.  But they ask for romance or erotic romance, and that&#8217;s what I deliver. </p>
<p>If you view &#8220;smut&#8221; the same as &#8220;erotic romance&#8221;, that&#8217;s perfectly fine-I&#8217;m not say you have to see it the same way I do.  But likewise, you also can&#8217;t tell me that I&#8217;m not entitled to view the issue exactly as I choose to.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://karenknowsbest.com/2009/09/09/quartet-press-are-dead/comment-page-3/#comment-45304</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenknowsbest.com/?p=4696#comment-45304</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your response, Angela.

I have to admit that when I think of the word &quot;smut&quot; I immediately go to my great-aunt and her mountains of Harlequin romances back in the early 80s. She&#039;d read one a day and as she did so she would grumble about the amount of &quot;smut&quot; in them, yet she would keep reading. The word gives me the giggles and when I see it inspiring such heated debate I can&#039;t help but chuckle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your response, Angela.</p>
<p>I have to admit that when I think of the word &#8220;smut&#8221; I immediately go to my great-aunt and her mountains of Harlequin romances back in the early 80s. She&#8217;d read one a day and as she did so she would grumble about the amount of &#8220;smut&#8221; in them, yet she would keep reading. The word gives me the giggles and when I see it inspiring such heated debate I can&#8217;t help but chuckle.</p>
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		<title>By: Angela James</title>
		<link>http://karenknowsbest.com/2009/09/09/quartet-press-are-dead/comment-page-3/#comment-45302</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenknowsbest.com/?p=4696#comment-45302</guid>
		<description>On a different note, I don&#039;t think anyone is going to argue with you about the fact that everyone&#039;s definition of &quot;smut&quot; differs, but I don&#039;t believe that&#039;s the issue at hand. The issue seems to be more about what we call it, or label it. And at any point in our life, labels matter. What I see the authors and readers here arguing is not even so much about content, but respecting the product by respecting what you label it. Sure, you can write some very hardcore erotic romance, but it&#039;s not something to be ashamed of. I think (and I&#039;m not trying to speak for anyone, just stating what I&#039;ve gotten from the conversation) is that by using a label that many consider negative, it gives the appearance of not having respect for what you&#039;ve written, or published, as the case may be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a different note, I don&#8217;t think anyone is going to argue with you about the fact that everyone&#8217;s definition of &#8220;smut&#8221; differs, but I don&#8217;t believe that&#8217;s the issue at hand. The issue seems to be more about what we call it, or label it. And at any point in our life, labels matter. What I see the authors and readers here arguing is not even so much about content, but respecting the product by respecting what you label it. Sure, you can write some very hardcore erotic romance, but it&#8217;s not something to be ashamed of. I think (and I&#8217;m not trying to speak for anyone, just stating what I&#8217;ve gotten from the conversation) is that by using a label that many consider negative, it gives the appearance of not having respect for what you&#8217;ve written, or published, as the case may be.</p>
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		<title>By: Angela James</title>
		<link>http://karenknowsbest.com/2009/09/09/quartet-press-are-dead/comment-page-3/#comment-45301</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenknowsbest.com/?p=4696#comment-45301</guid>
		<description>No distress, but I felt that your point was that my articles appearing there meant that I was endorsing whatever the site may say. If that were true, no author, editor or publisher would ever be able to guest blog or have articles anywhere (magazines, websites, newspapers, etc), because we&#039;d be considered...liable? Not sure if that&#039;s the word I&#039;m looking for, but we&#039;ll use it for argument&#039;s sake. We&#039;d be considered liable for any opinion or statement ever expressed on said blog or in said publication. Giving a series of articles about digital publishing doesn&#039;t mean anyone should or can extrapolate from that my feelings on the word smut, or on any other subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No distress, but I felt that your point was that my articles appearing there meant that I was endorsing whatever the site may say. If that were true, no author, editor or publisher would ever be able to guest blog or have articles anywhere (magazines, websites, newspapers, etc), because we&#8217;d be considered&#8230;liable? Not sure if that&#8217;s the word I&#8217;m looking for, but we&#8217;ll use it for argument&#8217;s sake. We&#8217;d be considered liable for any opinion or statement ever expressed on said blog or in said publication. Giving a series of articles about digital publishing doesn&#8217;t mean anyone should or can extrapolate from that my feelings on the word smut, or on any other subject.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://karenknowsbest.com/2009/09/09/quartet-press-are-dead/comment-page-3/#comment-45300</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenknowsbest.com/?p=4696#comment-45300</guid>
		<description>Glad to hear you have no second thoughts, Angela, and I&#039;m sorry if by bringing up your name I caused any distress. I did enjoy your articles and had hoped you would contribute more, seeing as e-publishing seems to be the way erotica is going since print publishers are accepting less and less submissions.

The point I&#039;m trying to make is that everyone&#039;s definition of smut differs. I doubt that Harlequin, EC, Samhain, etc. would put themselves into the same slot as Hustler and other explicitly pornographic publisher, but when you get right down to it the two are diverging. Just as Playboy/Playgirl wouldn&#039;t want to be painted with the same brush as Hustler, I can see why romance publishers would want to avoid being painted with the same brush as erotica. 

However, there&#039;s no getting away from it and there&#039;s no denying that much of the content you find in erotica is the same content that you&#039;d find in erotic romance and no single publisher can legitimately make the claim that they&#039;re not dipping their toe into the same pool. I&#039;ve gotten into heated debates with authors who tell me that what they write is romance and not erotica - and since the theme of the day seems to be to cite RR, the most lengthy discussion I had was with an RR author who loathed the smut/erotica label - and it&#039;s too easy to cite publications from publishers who bill themselves as erotic romance yet manage to &quot;out-smut&quot; with their content. RR is not alone in publishing explicit material - they&#039;re just the most referenced because they are so hated.

I&#039;m one of the authors who comes from the &quot;smut&quot; side of the fence. After successfully publishing &quot;smut&quot; it was suggested to me that I start looking at romance publishers and when I did I found little difference between the two. With very few adjustments and by tacking on a HEA I was able to submit a manuscript to one of the bigger-named romance e-publishers and get published on the first try. From where I sit the grass is the same shade of green on both sides.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to hear you have no second thoughts, Angela, and I&#8217;m sorry if by bringing up your name I caused any distress. I did enjoy your articles and had hoped you would contribute more, seeing as e-publishing seems to be the way erotica is going since print publishers are accepting less and less submissions.</p>
<p>The point I&#8217;m trying to make is that everyone&#8217;s definition of smut differs. I doubt that Harlequin, EC, Samhain, etc. would put themselves into the same slot as Hustler and other explicitly pornographic publisher, but when you get right down to it the two are diverging. Just as Playboy/Playgirl wouldn&#8217;t want to be painted with the same brush as Hustler, I can see why romance publishers would want to avoid being painted with the same brush as erotica. </p>
<p>However, there&#8217;s no getting away from it and there&#8217;s no denying that much of the content you find in erotica is the same content that you&#8217;d find in erotic romance and no single publisher can legitimately make the claim that they&#8217;re not dipping their toe into the same pool. I&#8217;ve gotten into heated debates with authors who tell me that what they write is romance and not erotica &#8211; and since the theme of the day seems to be to cite RR, the most lengthy discussion I had was with an RR author who loathed the smut/erotica label &#8211; and it&#8217;s too easy to cite publications from publishers who bill themselves as erotic romance yet manage to &#8220;out-smut&#8221; with their content. RR is not alone in publishing explicit material &#8211; they&#8217;re just the most referenced because they are so hated.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m one of the authors who comes from the &#8220;smut&#8221; side of the fence. After successfully publishing &#8220;smut&#8221; it was suggested to me that I start looking at romance publishers and when I did I found little difference between the two. With very few adjustments and by tacking on a HEA I was able to submit a manuscript to one of the bigger-named romance e-publishers and get published on the first try. From where I sit the grass is the same shade of green on both sides.</p>
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		<title>By: Angela James</title>
		<link>http://karenknowsbest.com/2009/09/09/quartet-press-are-dead/comment-page-2/#comment-45298</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 22:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenknowsbest.com/?p=4696#comment-45298</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Btw, love how you skipped over the part of my post where I linked James’s willing contribution to the site as a columnist. Wouldn’t want to burst any bubbles, now, would we? Why don’t you ask her about the time she was forced at gunpoint to become a contributer? I’m sure she sits around gnashing her teeth about how she was wronged and heaven-forbid anybody find out about that and accused her of being a smut-peddler.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Nothing nefarious in my contributions there. They approached me about doing a series of articles for their visitors on digital publishing. Since I&#039;m pretty passionate about evangelizing the word of digital publishing (that was tongue-in-cheek, btw) I was happy to. I hadn&#039;t heard of the website before that, I&#039;m still not very familiar with it, so I can&#039;t speak to what they do or say about romance or erotic romance. I don&#039;t think my articles there can be construed as support of their opinions, whatever they may be, any more than my presence at RWA presenting a workshop or at NINC doing the same can be construed as supporting all of their beliefs or policies. The articles and workshops are the only opinions I&#039;ll own as mine, I don&#039;t think that&#039;s unreasonable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Btw, love how you skipped over the part of my post where I linked James’s willing contribution to the site as a columnist. Wouldn’t want to burst any bubbles, now, would we? Why don’t you ask her about the time she was forced at gunpoint to become a contributer? I’m sure she sits around gnashing her teeth about how she was wronged and heaven-forbid anybody find out about that and accused her of being a smut-peddler.</p></blockquote>
<p>Nothing nefarious in my contributions there. They approached me about doing a series of articles for their visitors on digital publishing. Since I&#8217;m pretty passionate about evangelizing the word of digital publishing (that was tongue-in-cheek, btw) I was happy to. I hadn&#8217;t heard of the website before that, I&#8217;m still not very familiar with it, so I can&#8217;t speak to what they do or say about romance or erotic romance. I don&#8217;t think my articles there can be construed as support of their opinions, whatever they may be, any more than my presence at RWA presenting a workshop or at NINC doing the same can be construed as supporting all of their beliefs or policies. The articles and workshops are the only opinions I&#8217;ll own as mine, I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s unreasonable.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://karenknowsbest.com/2009/09/09/quartet-press-are-dead/comment-page-2/#comment-45296</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 22:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenknowsbest.com/?p=4696#comment-45296</guid>
		<description>lol Seressia if you want to think that publishers have nothing to do with their calls appearing on the more nefarious sites &amp; mailing lists and don&#039;t have their own contacts in the erotic market you can go right ahead. It never ceases to amaze me when people assume that romance editors, publishers and writers steer clear of their dirty little cousins in erotica. If you had any idea how many authors wrote real smut under pen names no doubt you would be disgusted. Some of them don&#039;t even write under different names. One author I know wrote an incredibly &quot;smutty&quot; book years ago and when her pub went tits-up it ended up at EC under the romance banner and did very well.

There are even more that come out weeks before the call even goes up on the publisher&#039;s website and sometimes it doesn&#039;t even appear on their website but comes exclusively down the pipe with a request that the information not be posted elsewhere. &quot;Smut&quot; didn&#039;t go knocking on romance&#039;s door - romance came knocking on smut&#039;s door. I can&#039;t imagine why they chose not to share with with their readers. Heard it was something about a giant stick and needing colorectal surgery ...

Btw, love how you skipped over the part of my post where I linked James&#039;s willing contribution to the site as a columnist. Wouldn&#039;t want to burst any bubbles, now, would we? Why don&#039;t you ask her about the time she was forced at gunpoint to become a contributer? I&#039;m sure she sits around gnashing her teeth about how she was wronged and heaven-forbid anybody find out about that and accused her of being a smut-peddler.

Just like the pubs have no idea where their calls are going.

Not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol Seressia if you want to think that publishers have nothing to do with their calls appearing on the more nefarious sites &amp; mailing lists and don&#8217;t have their own contacts in the erotic market you can go right ahead. It never ceases to amaze me when people assume that romance editors, publishers and writers steer clear of their dirty little cousins in erotica. If you had any idea how many authors wrote real smut under pen names no doubt you would be disgusted. Some of them don&#8217;t even write under different names. One author I know wrote an incredibly &#8220;smutty&#8221; book years ago and when her pub went tits-up it ended up at EC under the romance banner and did very well.</p>
<p>There are even more that come out weeks before the call even goes up on the publisher&#8217;s website and sometimes it doesn&#8217;t even appear on their website but comes exclusively down the pipe with a request that the information not be posted elsewhere. &#8220;Smut&#8221; didn&#8217;t go knocking on romance&#8217;s door &#8211; romance came knocking on smut&#8217;s door. I can&#8217;t imagine why they chose not to share with with their readers. Heard it was something about a giant stick and needing colorectal surgery &#8230;</p>
<p>Btw, love how you skipped over the part of my post where I linked James&#8217;s willing contribution to the site as a columnist. Wouldn&#8217;t want to burst any bubbles, now, would we? Why don&#8217;t you ask her about the time she was forced at gunpoint to become a contributer? I&#8217;m sure she sits around gnashing her teeth about how she was wronged and heaven-forbid anybody find out about that and accused her of being a smut-peddler.</p>
<p>Just like the pubs have no idea where their calls are going.</p>
<p>Not.</p>
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		<title>By: Seressia</title>
		<link>http://karenknowsbest.com/2009/09/09/quartet-press-are-dead/comment-page-2/#comment-45294</link>
		<dc:creator>Seressia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenknowsbest.com/?p=4696#comment-45294</guid>
		<description>Oh see I thought you meant a Harlequin editor put out an call for smut. Every writer site out there can copy from a publisher&#039;s official website (heck that exact same wording is on the RWA market update)

I think you could argue that there&#039;s a difference between an official call for submission and someone aggregating publishing opportunities for steamier works.

Not that I care all that much, just wanted to point that out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh see I thought you meant a Harlequin editor put out an call for smut. Every writer site out there can copy from a publisher&#8217;s official website (heck that exact same wording is on the RWA market update)</p>
<p>I think you could argue that there&#8217;s a difference between an official call for submission and someone aggregating publishing opportunities for steamier works.</p>
<p>Not that I care all that much, just wanted to point that out.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://karenknowsbest.com/2009/09/09/quartet-press-are-dead/comment-page-2/#comment-45293</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenknowsbest.com/?p=4696#comment-45293</guid>
		<description>Guess again, Batgirl. Harlequin, Samhain, the whole lot of them have had their names on the same roll call for those publishers you&#039;re turning your nose up at. In July I received a long list of calls in one email with romance publishers (including Harlequin) mixed in with those who publish pure erotica. 

http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/G/Call_For_Submissions.htm

Recognize any of the pubs on there? Right there alongside of Hustler Fantasies, Penthouse Variations, and Big Tools?

You can be as snobby as you want about it but that doesn&#039;t make it any less true. Even Angela James, former HBIC at Samhain, has contributed some great articles to the ERWA site (which, if you look around, you&#039;ll see proudly owns the word &quot;smut&quot;)

http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/Archive09/Archive_2009.htm 

Azteclady, I assume then that you would *never ever* buy anything from the publishers on the link I posted up there. You can keep shrieking about RR all you want for being smut peddlers but the proof is right there, my dear. Whether you like it or not, these publishers clearly have no objection to being featured alongside of Larry Flynt&#039;s flagship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guess again, Batgirl. Harlequin, Samhain, the whole lot of them have had their names on the same roll call for those publishers you&#8217;re turning your nose up at. In July I received a long list of calls in one email with romance publishers (including Harlequin) mixed in with those who publish pure erotica. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/G/Call_For_Submissions.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/G/Call_For_Submissions.htm</a></p>
<p>Recognize any of the pubs on there? Right there alongside of Hustler Fantasies, Penthouse Variations, and Big Tools?</p>
<p>You can be as snobby as you want about it but that doesn&#8217;t make it any less true. Even Angela James, former HBIC at Samhain, has contributed some great articles to the ERWA site (which, if you look around, you&#8217;ll see proudly owns the word &#8220;smut&#8221;)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/Archive09/Archive_2009.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/Archive09/Archive_2009.htm</a> </p>
<p>Azteclady, I assume then that you would *never ever* buy anything from the publishers on the link I posted up there. You can keep shrieking about RR all you want for being smut peddlers but the proof is right there, my dear. Whether you like it or not, these publishers clearly have no objection to being featured alongside of Larry Flynt&#8217;s flagship.</p>
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