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And People Wonder Why I Hate Organised Religion So Much...

Check out this utter knob jockey called Bruce, who had this (and loads more besides) to say:

“It is funny to see the charge of misogyny leveled at the Church by women who promote the female version of pornography. Both “romance novels” and porn objectify and destroy the dignity of men and women. The Church opposes this, because she believes in the dignity of men and women, and rejects our objectification.

The Church is the only institution which, for the last 2000+ years, has regarded a WOMAN as the greatest human being to ever live. Better than any world leader. Better than any king. Better than any president. Better than any man or any other woman in the history of the universe. She is the Mother of God, Mary, and only the Church venerates her above all other human beings. The Church – that “misogynistic institution” considers a woman to be better than all other human beings who have ever lived, or will ever live, and venerates her as such. The Church – that bastion of “misogyny” – which has exalted countless women saints as exemplars of the human race. The Church is the ONLY institution which upholds a woman’s natural sexuality – no poisons or barriers or mutilation – and exalts her fertility as a gift, not a disease.

The Church knows she is the BRIDE of Christ. (K: Absolute wackjob alert!) And that she serves Him, and no one else. Christ gave His life for HER and no one else. The Church, and John Paul II in particular, exhorts husbands to love their wives like Christ loves the Church – to DIE FOR THEIR WIVES.

I’ve never seen an institution so completely in love with women, and in particular mothers, than the Church.

You see, your ignorance has blinded you to the only institution which actually upholds your dignity in a world of unbridled objectification, pornography, and abuse of women. The sexual revolution only brought misery and pain.

Look at your own lives. Those who indulge in porn and “romance novels” have consistently poor relationships. The divorce rates are sky high for women and men who participate in these things.

In contrast, men who believe what the Church teaches, and live by it, treat women so well, they never divorce. Our divorce rate is 4%. Yours is above 50%. We treat our wives with respect, love, and a level of devotion that requires us to die for them if need be.

That is the kind of love you only find in fictional romance novels, and in the Catholic Church.

Pax,
Bruce – husband, father, and disciple of Jesus Christ.”

He is everything that I hate about organised religion. Rampant intolerance for other people’s lifestyles, all in the name of God. Fucking hypocrite.

I bet as well as being Catholic he’s a Republican, it’s the only thing that makes sense. Twat.

105 Comments »

  • Regarded a woman as the greatest human being who ever lived? Does he mean Mary? A woman whose specialness is defined by her reproduction (and her virginity – not coded language At All). And amazing how women are so revered yet a woman being a spokesperson for the God she birthed is forbidden?

    Ooooh a woman’s “natural sexuality” whyyyy do I think that there’ll be a lot of women not agreeing with that? And hiow is her fertility a gift – the whole process of impregnation is skipped!

    Ahhh but at least they don’t read the dirty dirty dirty porn.

    And I’ve never got why divorce is considered a bad thing. As a Family lawyer I’ve had the pleasure to see many a relaionship that stays together for various reasons – there are times when you need to split and times when people need to be free.

    On a related note, I’ll be the first to agree with my loathing of the bigotry of Organised religion. But to use an anti-gay slur (knob jockey) as an insult to do it, especilaly since gay people are some of the victims of organised religion… well, at best it’s a trifle ironic

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  • Jeannie S.
    April 26
    1:16 pm

    I have been hanging on to being loyal to the Catholic Church, but this guy really makes me want to give up. I have seen good priests that seemed to be understanding and very likeable, and others who were judgemental and condemning. The attendance in our church has fallen way off, it just isn’t welcoming anymore. People want to feel hopeful, not told how they are sinners every week. Most Catholics do feel this way, and want change. If the church (those who have position of power and authority) continue to ignore this, they will lose more and more parishioners.

    And equating romance novels with porn and divorce?? Being told I should read non-fiction? It’s my life, please worry about your own.

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  • Mireya
    April 26
    1:31 pm

    There isn’t much more that I can say that I haven’t said before. I had a neighbor like the guy above, who was also the biggest GOSSIP in the whole neighborhood, that decided I was gay based on the simple fact that I never brought any dates to the house. I didn’t bring dates to the house because I was NOT dating either males or females. Period. My being gay would have been a rather juicy bit of gossip for the asshole as my dad was a practicing Catholic as well and went to the same church and all. Nevermind that that same asshole OWED a lot of favors to my dad as dad was a doctor and he saved him a LOT on free med consultations and prescriptions… but I guess that’s irrelevant *rolling eyes… again*

    M.

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  • @Fangs for the Fantasy: Oh my good dog, Mary, of course!

    Virginal, obedient, submissive: perfect woman.

    knob jockey: huh, I didn’t realize what it meant until you pointed it out, but then again, what with Karen being a Brit, there are all sorts of new-to-me slang here.

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  • @AztecLady:

    Heh I’m British as well hence my noticing

    But yeah – Mary on a pedestal is the very definition of the “Madonna/Whore” (she named the trope!) dichotomy. Sexless, virginal, obedient and her worth is defiend by her motherhood and reproduction

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  • Patrice
    April 26
    7:49 pm

    Oh that guy was such a troll! Most of that quoted passage was in response to my post of “specific objections” which, in retrospect, I knew would rile him up. So I apologize for baiting him. He got worse as he went along! lol

    The dogma of the Catholic Church is archaic and not known for adapting to current times. Among other things, contradictions that could only be accepted “on Faith” abound. Immaculate Conception. Rising from the dead. Annulments or Dissolution of Marriage (even in cases where there are children) are sanctioned, but Divorce is wrong. Oh and lets not forget that reproduction is a virtue and sacred duty, but in vitro fertilization is “intrinsically evil” according to a court case featured on Today Show this morning. Makes me spittin mad, it does! 😉 Had to give religion up for Lent many years ago. lol

    Peace, Love and all that hippie dippy stuff! 😉 XO

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  • @Fangs for the Fantasy: Knob jockey is an anti-gay slur? Not in my town. It’s no different to knobhead, or twat to me, and I use both insults liberally.

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  • @Karen Scott:

    Yes it is. “Knob” = penis “Jockey” = rider. Many people use anti-gay slurs as a generic insult – in the same way people use “gay” as an insult – the core of the insult is homophobic.

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  • @Fangs for the Fantasy: Ok, if you want to get specific, here are all the different meanings for knob:

    A rounded handle that one pulls or twists:
    Doorknob, a round handle one turns to open any door
    Control knob, controls a device
    Brodie knob on the steering wheel
    A prominent rounded hill or mountain, particularly in the Appalachians and the Ozarks
    A slang term for the penis
    A derogatory epithet similar to “idiot”
    Another word for tow ball or hitch ball
    Protrusions on the surface of erythrocytes associated with Maurer’s clefts in malaria

    And let’s look at all the ways jockey can be interpreted:

    jock·ey? ?[jok-ee] Show IPA noun, plural jock·eys, verb, jock·eyed, jock·ey·ing.
    noun
    1.
    a person who rides horses professionally in races.
    2.
    Informal . a person who pilots, operates, or guides the movement of something, as an airplane or automobile.

    to ride (a horse) as a jockey.
    4.
    Informal . to operate or guide the movement of; pilot; drive.
    5.
    to move, bring, put, etc., by skillful maneuvering: The movers jockeyed the sofa through the door.
    6.
    to trick or cheat: The salesman jockeyed them into buying an expensive car.
    7.
    to manipulate cleverly or trickily: He jockeyed himself into office.

    Like I said, to me, it’s just another generic insult. It’s not as if only gay men ride penises is it? If I can call somebody a twat, a pussy, (which no doubt is probably sexist at its core) or a dickhead, then I can certainly call them a knob jockey. If somebody wants to presume that I’m being homophobic, that’s their look-out.

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  • Bruce
    April 27
    1:39 pm

    “Regarded a woman as the greatest human being who ever lived? Does he mean Mary? A woman whose specialness is defined by her reproduction (and her virginity – not coded language At All”

    Mary is the greatest human being ever created because she willingly chose to give birth and be the Mother to God Himself.

    It was her CHOICE. God was “pro choice” when He asked her, through the angel, to give Him flesh – to be His Mother and the Mother of us all.

    She is the greatest because she is a mother, and there is nothing greater in the world and in the Church than a mother. If one rejects the celebration of mothers, I question his or her very humanity.

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  • Bruce
    April 27
    1:48 pm

    IVF is intrinsically evil, as is contraception, abortion, and sterilization.

    In each case, a woman is harmed and her sexuality is mutilated, distorted, or destroyed, oftentimes at the hands of men.

    Christ and His Body, the Church, recognize the evil of destroying human sexuality for the selfish desires of men and sometimes women. To separate the procreative from the unitive purpose of sex is to destroy it altogether.

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  • Momofthree
    April 27
    2:05 pm

    If you girls don’t think that modern, secular society is bad for women then read this: http://www.scifiwright.com/ (scroll down to “What is Wrong with the World-Part IV”- Hypocritical).

    The Church opposes porn, artificial contraception (but not NFP) IVF etc for very good reasons. I think the Catholic Church understands male sexuality pretty well (although I do think priests should be able to marry if they choose). Men are dogs when it comes to sex. Putting women on the Pill is like serving them up on a platter (John Wright’s analogy, not mine) to the basest nature of men.. “whoo hoo! Come use us and have fun with our bodies, now freed from the product of our sexuality (that took millions of years to evolve). Sex is about procreation? Nah! It is just about fun!”

    STD rate since 1965….up
    Divorce rate since then….way up
    drug use since then….up
    lonliness since then…way up
    women’s depression since then….up.

    Contradict me…I challenge you.

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  • Bruce
    April 27
    2:08 pm

    To accuse me of being “intolerant” is to have no effect at all. Tolerance of evil and sin is not a Christian virtue. We do not tolerate evil or sin.

    So, if that is “intolerance,” then we are happy to be so.

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  • Anne
    April 27
    3:26 pm

    @Bruce:

    Why are you even here? Clearly, it’s not a sincere attempt to win anyone over to your religion. I can only assume you’re here to offer, what? Your condemnation? God’s? Either way, your hubris is showing. And I’m fairly certain Karen was talking about you, not to you.

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  • Bruce
    April 27
    3:28 pm

    I’m here to spread the Truth. Jesus Christ is Lord, and His Church is His Mystical Body on earth.

    I’m here to combat the lies, bigotry, and hatred spewed at Christ and His Church.

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  • Anne
    April 27
    3:30 pm

    I see no lies here. She quoted you warmly and accurately.

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  • @Bruce: You are a total troll, and preach to somebody who’s interested. I’m not. Your bullshit, just validates my reasons for hating religious freaks like yourself. I’ve been polite, now I just want you to fuck off. Stop posting here, or I’ll just put your details on spam alert, and ban you.

    @Momofthree: As for you, you lost me at “the church opposes porn, contraception for very good reasons” .

    Understand this freak, I don’t believe in what you believe, I believe in the pill, I believe in contraception, I believe in IVF for women not lucky enough to be able to conceive naturally, I believe in the rights of women to choose what happens to their body. I don’t give a flying donkey’s penis who’s getting divorced and why, Your very presence and your views offends me to the nth degree. I find you and people like you an abomination to humanity. You are probably the type of cretin who’d make her daughter have a child sired out of rape. You people disgust me.

    I don’t need to challenge your views, I’m not in the habit of trying to change closed off minds.

    I think you’re a brain washed idiot who’s got every right to believe in your bullshit church, (a church that allows pedophiles to get away with the greatest sin known to man by the way) but please, I beg of you, fuck off from my blog.

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  • Spammed Bruce! Twat.

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  • Anne
    April 27
    5:11 pm

    @Bruce_:

    This is possibly the most blatant concern trolling I’ve ever seen. And the irony? It burns.

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  • Anne, he’s a dick, best to ignore and spam. Disgusting creature.

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  • I’ve banned both of them now. There’s always a first time for everything. Fucking religious zealots. Ugh.

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  • Thank you for taking care of the assholes, Karen

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  • Andrea
    April 27
    7:45 pm

    So, condemning people who are religious (when you are not) or part of another political party (that you don’t ascribe to) is the height of tolerance and understanding?

    Just weighing in here as a religious woman who finds great solace, affirmation and challenge in being a Catholic. My experience of being in a church where people try (and fail and try again) to follow Christ’s way has been self-defining and self-shaping in what I see as the best ways possible. I am paraphrasing Waugh here (I think), but he was challenged about being a Catholic and a git and responded that he would be more of a git without being Catholic. I know that it true of me and have also seen how this is true for devout (religious) Sikhs, Jews, Muslims, etc. that I know.

    Perhaps dismissing/degrading religious people and their experience is not the way to show tolerance and understanding of the experience and beliefs of others.

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  • @Andrea: Andrea, I’m not religious, and I don’t pretend to be tolerant, which means that I can be as rude as I like to religious freaks who try to preach to me. I have no tolerance for people who tell me that a woman doesn’t have the right to choose what she does with her body, that IVF is wrong, or that contraception is the devils doing. I certainly don’t have time for people who tell me that reading romance books equates to reading porn, and thus I will burn in hell. Make no mistake, this blog is not a democracy, and I don’t tolerate zealots like Bruce, or fanatical arsewipes, like that Mary bird.

    You wanna preach to me, go elsewhere and practice your free speech, because that type of free speech isn’t welcomed here. My blog, my rules.

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  • Andrea
    April 27
    8:38 pm

    So tolerance and decency toward others is only reserved for those you deem acceptable? Or words and actions in the internet don’t count? Or only count in the ways you want them to count on your own blog?

    It’s hard to follow your logic here.

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  • Anon 76
    April 27
    8:38 pm

    Well hell, I was gonna tell Bruce “talk to the hand.” LOL

    This whole type of thing is what turned me away from organized religion to begin with. I fundamentally find no difference between people like Bruce and that crazy guy in Waco, Texas. It’s all, “my way or the highway.”

    This based on texts written by men, for men, and relentlessly interpreted by yet other men.

    I’ll stick with my one on one conversations with Jesus and God, thank you very much. No mouthpiece needed.

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  • @Andrea: I was tolerant until he started preaching at me. At that point, my tolerance and decency expired. And my intolerance towards intolerant people makes perfect sense.

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  • Anne
    April 27
    8:55 pm

    Do we know how Bruce found this blog? Clearly, he’s not a fan of romance, though they do say it’s the squeaky wheel that wants to get greased (or words to that effect).

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  • Anon 76
    April 27
    9:59 pm

    I’m pretty sure he googled the subject or “tags” brought him here from the original post.

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  • @Anon 76:

    I’ll stick with my one on one conversations with Jesus and God, thank you very much. No mouthpiece needed.

    This, exactly this!

    Andrea, not only is this Karen’s blog (aka, definitely not a democracy), it is rude to come to a person’s space to condescend to her (which is what Bruce did, if you could be bothered to read the entire sequence of events).

    Personally, you (and Bruce for that matter) may believe whatever makes you guys happy. The Catholic church makes you happy? Go you.

    That is tolerance, by the way–I won’t try to convince you not to believe what you do.

    Now you can be tolerant when I say that there is no way in heaven or hell I could live with what I see as the hypocrisy and misogyny of the Catholic church–or any organized religion for that matter.

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  • Lol, well I got to the bottom of where the religious freaks were coming from. Our banned friend Bruce wrote the below in a couple of Catholic blogs:

    If it is a fight Catholics want, stop fighting each other and start evangelizing those who hate us. This is what St. Francis did – to seek out those who hate us most and preach the Gospel.

    I found a typical front of the culture of death. If it is contraception you want to fight, and women who hate the Church because of her stance on it, start here:
    http://karenknowsbest.com/2012/04/26/and-people-wonder-why-i-hate-organised-religion-so-much/

    I got the ball rolling, and they have predictably hammered me for preaching about Mary and authentic sexuality. Its your turn to help me if you want. These are deeply confused and disturbed women.

    What a mental case. That guy is a news story waiting to happen. Glad I don’t live next door to the nutter. It’s only a matter of time before his hatred makes him do something really bad. He currently has a mild case of the Anders Breiviks. He too thought he was doing God’s work by murdering all those innocent kids.

    Fucking religious zealots, preaching hate in the name of God. Ugh.

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  • Anon 76
    April 27
    11:24 pm

    Wow. Just wow. I desparetly wanted to tell Bruce and hangers on, just “Fuck Your Wife Like You Mean It.”

    Men ejaculate and that process is over for them.

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  • SamG
    April 28
    1:22 am

    Um, I’m atheist. I don’t know all the old stories well. But, it has always been my thought that Mary wasn’t OFFERED anything or given a CHOICE. Didn’t that angel come down and say ‘you’ve been chosen to carry God’s son’?

    She is sort of an original rape, wasn’t she?

    As I said, I am no biblical scholar. But, I never got the
    impression that she was ASKED anything.

    Sam…

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  • Kayla
    April 28
    2:23 am

    You know what I find offensive about organized religion? Each “religion” thinks their rules are the correct ones. Have you ever compared different religions and their rules? I have.

    Catholics don’t believe in “artificial” birth control (aka The Pill, the IUD, etc). They believe there are 3 levels you go to after death; Heaven, Hell, Purgatory.

    Pentecostals don’t allow women to cut their hair or wear jewelry. They must wear skirts.

    Muslims have varying degrees of restrictions on women as far as dress and behavior. The most extreme don’t even allow women to work.

    Baptists require women to be “submissive” and the extreme versions think dancing is a sin.

    Jehovah Witness refuse to recognize birthdays, Christmas or any other holiday.

    Mormons believe there are 6 levels after death.

    This just touches on those that come to mind. The list goes on and on. Who is to say which one is right?

    Religions are all MAN MADE. Each has it’s own made up rules. Many of which you won’t find in the Bible.

    I don’t recall every reading that Jesus said, “wear no jewelry”; “Ignore all holidays”; etc.

    I’ve always had a theory about religions. They are made up by MAN to control each other. And to control women.

    I’m American and I’m appalled at what is going on in my country today. Religious zealots are not only trying to take over the government, they are trying to take back 50 years worth of progress in women’s rights. It just flat pisses me off!

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  • Alana
    April 28
    7:21 am

    Thank you, Bruce for a beautiful reminder of the inherent dignity of womanhood.

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  • Anne
    April 28
    8:22 am

    So, he put out a rallying cry? And this was his attempt at evangelism?

    Didn’t he also claim to have been ordained? You’d think a real priest would be busy performing mass and providing pastural care to his flock.

    Also, what SamG said. Bruce’s grasp on the New Testament seems shaky at best. At worst, he’s deliberately twisting what it says. A Catholic he may be, but he doesn’t seem like a very good Christian.

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  • Siobhán
    April 28
    2:48 pm

    As a girl of 24 who has seen, heard of and experienced much of what the world has to offer, I have to say I agree with Bruce, Momofthree, and Andrea. Yes, I am Catholic – very happily so – and I find great peace in God and in my faith. Do I have doubts? Yes – but reason supports me as well as faith. Thomas Aquinas in particular had a huuuge intellect and it’s shown in his Summae Theologiae. His five-fold argument for the existence of God from reason can be heavy going, but it makes sense.
    An analogy, if I may? (I’m going to make it anyway! :-]) Imagine the best thing that has ever happened to you – it makes you so deliriously happy. You’ll probably want to share it with others, or, at the very least, share how happy you are that it’s happened to >you<. That's like how Catholics and other Christians are when they share their faith – it's an overflow. When you believe you've found Truth with a capital 'T', you want others to know. It's a natural instinct of humankind to desire to know the truth. Not to sound too much like Agent Mulder, but I believe the truth is out there: unchanging and unchanged by what humans believe.
    Looking forward to a heartfelt response (I say that without sarcasm).

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  • @Siobhán: As a woman of 46 who has seen, read, heard and experienced quite a bit of what the world does have to offer, I’m happy for you. Go on believing whatever you want.

    Plus, name dropping aside, there are many exCatholics who believe in God *raising hand* yet feel no need to follow the mandates of a misogynist institution–such as, just as a fer instance, dontcha know, the Catholic church–in order to prove to anyone whether or not their faith is sound and good and proper.

    Plus, that bit about how once a person feels s/he has found The One True Truth ™, s/he feels compelled to share it? That’s not the exclusive province of Christians. Everyone does it–Jews, Muslims and whatever else, they all do.

    And while I can take you sharing your acceptance of the Catholic church and its mandates with good humor, there is no way on earth I’m going to take anyone–young, old, female, male, alien–telling me how I’m less because I don’t believe whatever they are sprouting. The first is indeed simply sharing, the second is condescending, arrogant and unacceptable.

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  • Siobhán
    April 28
    3:32 pm

    @AztecLady:
    Thanks for your response. I don’t think you’re less than me at all, or, for that matter, that anyone who isn’t a practicing Catholic is less than me. I certainly can’t judge people, their motives or their characters – there’s way too much hidden from me to do so, and God’s the ultimate Judge, anyway. Actions, words and thoughts are different: every minute, hour and day, we judge as to whether or not something is right and act accordingly. Of course, not everyone agrees on what is right and what is wrong. But if we find what we believe is true, that must also equate to that which is right…right? As in truth = goodness.
    The main thing that I want to say is that I try not to condemn others, and I hope I never will go down the road of being self-righteous. I can’t speak for everyone – maybe there are some folks who talk down to others – but I would hope that they grow more charitable too.

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  • Anon 76
    April 28
    3:42 pm

    Siobahn,

    I have nothing against true faith. God endowed us with the unique ability to reason and my personal reasoning causes me to believe. It is the blind worship of archaic religious statutes that drives me nuts. Statutes written/interpreted and rewritten/reinterpreted on a constant basis by the “enlightened.” Might I also point out the “enlightened” and therefore “holders of the moral flame” are usually the male of our species.

    As to holding one religion more accountable than another when it comes to such things? I don’t.

    True story: Years upon years ago a young man, Born Again Christian, showed up at my door. In tow he had his son. Approximately seven-years-old and dressed like Dad, in suit and tie, both holding some version of the tremendously rewritten Bible.

    When I politely tried to shoo them away explaining that I don’t follow an organized religion, the man would not stop preaching on and on.

    I finally looked him in the eye and said something along the lines of, “I have a rebuttal but I really don’t think you want me to state it in front of your young son. He’s at an impressionable age and you may not want him to think on my words at a later point.”

    Nope, guy wouldn’t go.

    Okay then. “Sir, with all due respect to you, I think your “religion” is a bunch of hooey. You stand here with all sincerity telling me that those who do not follow in “the path” of your religion will be damned to hell. All I can picture is a little Catholic grandmother over in Italy. Momma Leoni. A woman who has never harmed anyone in her life. A woman who believes in God and Jesus with all her heart and practices her religion faithfully without falling into the politics of it.”

    “According to you, this woman is going to Hell. If that is your belief, then you Sir can leave my doorstep because I want no part of it. Goodbye.”

    With that I politely but firmly shut the door and no one from his “cult” tried to shovel feed me on that religion again.

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  • Siobhán
    April 28
    4:09 pm

    @Anon76:
    Thanks for replying. At first, I misread “statutes” for “statues” – heh! (Although I do love the beautiful art in churches and shrines – it makes me want to pick up some tools and get creative.)

    I’m learning a bit more about the wisdom of the Doctors of the Church. Three of them are women: one having died when she was the same age as me (St Thérèse of Lisieux)! One whose feast day will be celebrated shortly is St Catherine of Siena: she was no shrinking violet. She was united with God as all saints are and, against this background, she was a source of guidance for two Popes. I don’t know very much about her, admittedly, but I thought I’d bring her up as I can detect a true womanly fighting spirit in her. St Teresa of Avila was also a marvellously witty saint – fiesty, even.

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  • Anon 76
    April 28
    4:11 pm

    But, Siobahn, the ultimate question is, could any of these women have been made priests, or even a Pope?

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  • Siobhán
    April 28
    4:23 pm

    I don’t see that as the ultimate question. Wherever the truth is, that’s where I want to go. The fact that the magisterium is composed entirely of men is secondary.

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  • Anon 76
    April 28
    4:33 pm

    Ah, but that is the ultimate basis of this blog post and all the responses herein. Women can be saints, advisors to Popes, anything and everything but true leaders of the religion. Never priest, cardinal, nor Pope.

    “The fact that the magisterium is composed entirely of men is secondary.” Not to me it’s not. It only validates my views, which we are all allowed to have.

    In your research, do look up all the wars and devastation fought in the name of religion. Even predating Christ.

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  • Siobhán
    April 28
    4:48 pm

    I must indeed look up more on the concept of ‘just war’ (along with countless other subjects). I do believe that you have to fight when it is called for. It’s just a matter of discerning when that time is. But thanks for reminding me: whenever human life is involved, we cannot simply block our ears.

    For now, I’ve gotta go to Mass, but thank you for taking time for this discussion. I’ll check back later!

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  • Anon 76
    April 28
    4:50 pm

    And the whole Catholic “confessional” thing drives me nuts too. Go in once a week and admit your sins, get a slap on the wrist, then go commit the same offenses again until next confession.

    It’s a Catholic loophole that irritates the shit out of me.

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  • @Siobhán:

    The fact that the magisterium is composed entirely of men is secondary.

    No, for me and many others, it’s not only not secondary, but the entire point of the argument: in organized religions, with the Catholic church a preeminent example, women are considered less than men–else, why aren’t they even eligible for the ultimate leadership roles within said religions?

    @Siobhán: “Just war”? Seriously? Any war in which men kill other men–and alongside them, innocent bystanders, often women and children–ain’t just, no matter what those men in the ‘magisterium’ say.

    To pick up from one of your earlier response, if truth = goodness, then: it is truth that is misogyny that wreaks havoc on women and girls all around the world, with rape and female genital mutilation and the ultimate denial of equality of rights–to education and to leadership. I don’t see how that truth equates with goodness, unless a person thinks that yes, indeed, since women are inferior, they somehow deserve to be treated thus.

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  • Anon 76
    April 28
    6:47 pm

    Damn, I lubs ya Aztec Lady.

    I didn’t want to address the “just war” thing, but you picked up the ball. Brava

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  • Anon 76
    April 28
    7:05 pm

    And here is a direct quote from the one and only book I wrote. It deals with the war thing of men.

    “Sword play is not a game, Milady. It’s a dangerous sport that can cause serious injury. (more text) and then

    “You are right, milord, it is not a game but neither is it a sport. Some grown men try to make it so.”

    The main text, in the heroines pov was, “There is nothing in the world like watching women and children being cut down because they have no idea how to protect themselves. To see them run screaming, begging for mercy, because their menfolk are unable to save themselves, let alone those they are there to protect.”

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  • I swore that I wasn’t going to get into this, but here is goes…
    I was once twenty-four and at that time I also thought that I had seen and done it all. Now looking back, I realize how wrong I was. I was raised Pentecostal and graduated from a Baptist high school. I even worked for the church for a while. Hell, I taught Sunday school.

    Then as the years progressed, I realized that I had not seen it all, not by a long shot. I also began to realize that organized religion is not all cupcakes and rainbows.

    What happened you ask?

    My then two-year old daughter was misbehaving in day care,members of my church handed me a paddle and told me that if I didn’t use it on her then we were both sinners.

    When I found out my daughter had a learning disability, they told me that it was God’s will. Or even worse, that she was probably destined for a sinful life, so God did this to save her from herself.

    Leading members of the church stood in front of the congregation and told us that unless we give 10& of our income back to the church, we were destined for hell. This was despite the fact that most members made minimum wage while the pastor drove around a luxury car.

    A couple of years ago my son came out. Instead of being loving and supporting, both the church and members of my own damn family refuse to acknowledge him. Worse they fling hurtful statements his way. One street preacher even chased him down and thrust a pamphlet into his hand, one that was full of homophobic statements and pictures. My son was only seventeen at the time. What kind of person does that to a kid?

    Unlike so many others, I then decided to educate myself about religion. I read the Bible twice, took religion courses, then I went on to study other religions. All that led me to one conclusion–there is more than one way to spirituality. If God didn’t want us to question things and make our own opinions then he would have never given us free will;

    And for the record, I am damn proud of both my kids and wouldn’t change a thing about them. They are perfect the way they are and I am lucky to have them.

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