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Black Men Who Have A Problem With Black Women Dating Non-Blacks, What The Hell?

As long as I can remember, black guys around me have always dated non-black women. Always. When I was at school, it was the norm, and in fact it was a surprise when a black boy dated another black girl. This is not an unusual story, as far as I can tell, this has been the norm the world over for the last twenty years or so.

When I was a teen, the only boys who were interested in me romantically were white guys and bi-racial guys. The black guys were just not interested, they preferred my white friends. That’s just a fact. I on the other hand wanted to go out with black guys, I guess that’s how I was programmed, especially in those days, when it was virtually unheard of in my circle for a black girl to date a white guy.

I remember going on a date with a white boy when I was maybe thirteen or fourteen. To be honest, the reason I went out with him was because he asked me, but still to this day, I remember how uncomfortable I felt when he tried to hold my hand in public. And now that I know better how the world works, I’m really sorry that I made such a big deal about the whole thing. I guess I never thought about it from his perspective. Here was this white boy who had managed to get up the courage to ask out a black girl to the cinema (I’m pretty sure it was Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade) even though it wasn’t really the done thing, and I wouldn’t even let him hold my hand or express any other public displays of affection.

Whenever I think about how horrible I was on that date, I want to go back and slap that stupid girl upside the head. It wasn’t till a few years later that I thought about how I would have felt if somebody I was interested in had acted as if they were ashamed to be seen with me whilst we were on a date.

Anyway, the rest of my dating adventures didn’t differ much as I got older – I got asked out by white guys and mixed race guys, but still mostly ignored by black boys. A couple of black guys did ask me out, and I happily went, but they were both a bust. One of the black boys was the kind of guy who expected payment in kind for him spending a few pounds on a Big Mac meal. Needless to say, we didn’t last very long.

My long time readers will know that TTG is mixed race, and prior to meeting him, I’d mostly been dating bi-racial guys. Actually, I did date a white guy just prior to TTG, but he turned out to be an obsessive psycho, who threw battery acid all over my car when I dumped him for TTG. He was one messed up dude. *Shudder*

Anyway I’ve written all of the above to say that what angers me more than anything is when black guys take umbrage when they see black women with white guys. Black women have had to accept their lack of interest in them (me included) for years, yet they have the sheer audacity to have an issue when they see us with white guys. It’s happened to me quite a few times. I have quite a few clients who are white and male, and when I take them out to lunch and we’re in the vicinity of a black guy, I see the look of disappointment on their faces, like I sold out or something. It enrages me no end. It doesn’t even matter that they’ve made an erroneous assumption, what makes me mad is the fact that they dare judge me for apparently being with a white guy. I mean seriously wtf?

It’s something that drives TTG crazy too, he just doesn’t get the whole territorial race thing.

Anyway, it’s become very obvious that the more things change, the more they stay the same. The Youtube vids featuring interracial couples where the woman is black, are filled with comments from black guys expressing their disgust at the union. Of course they’re filled with comments from KKK type people, but that’s not something that ever surprises me. A lot of people are racist, and that status quo will remain for many a year. No, what angers me are the number of black guys talking about how wrong it is for ‘sisters’ to date non-blacks, when black women have had to watch black men date outside their race for years.

The following Youtube vid features an older black woman who happens to be in a relationship with a white man. She’s responding to an email that she received from a black guy condemning her for marrying a white guy. It’s bloody long, but you more or less get the gist within the first ten minutes.

Wouldn’t it be great if people could be left alone to love who they want to love?

Anyway, question to black woman, or in fact any other women out there who have dated outside their race, what kind of reception did you get from guys of the same ethnicity as you? And to black women specifically, what was your dating history like? Was it at all similar to mine?

Side note: I know these are sensitive questions, and not all of you guys will be interested in the subject matter, but unlike the late Monica Jackson, (God rest her soul) if I get radio silence, I’ll just assume that nobody’s interested in these types of blog posts, and I’ll go back to random stuff. It takes way more effort than I usually like to expend to write them, and so the more responses from you guys the better:)

28 Comments »


  • Lori
    August 22
    11:16 am

    Karen, this has been a great feature you’ve been doing. And if the subject is important to you don’t let radio silence stop you.

    Anyway, I’ve never had an issue, though the one time I went out with a black boy in high school I thought my mom would pass out. Not sure if it was worse that he was black or that he wasn’t Jewish. Heh. Generational thing, I always thought.

    I love that my kids aren’t uncomfortable about race. One of Oldest’s friends has a black girlfriend and as far as I know, none of thei group, including her brother, has any issue with it. Gives me hope for our future, ya know?

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  • I hope you do continue with your feature as I am the mother of a mixed race boy. I have tried to make it clear that he is both, but it has been hard because dad is absent and so that side of his culture has also been absent.

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  • Dawn Brookes
    August 22
    11:27 am

    As a black woman (albeit) very light skinned, I’ve dated both black and white. When I was growing up it was mainly white because of the area I lived in, but when I moved to the more cosmopolitan (LOL) Milton Keynes there was a wider dating pool.

    I’ve married a black man who’s family comes from the West Indies, so of course, there is some white going way back in his genes.

    I too, don’t bat an eye when I see black men and white women – it’s the “norm”. But it almost seems “exotic” when I see a BW/WM, and I like it.

    My brother who is a bit darker than me has married a white woman, and my sister who looks Indian has married a white man.

    I don’t care who dates who and those black men who slag black women off for dating out race really need a strong kick in the nuts for one of the worst kind of double standards.

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  • I don’t get too much of this crap in person anymore. IMO one of the best benefits of getting older is that people fuck with you a lot less. But online? I’ve learned to avoid pretty much anywhere black men congregate. I had a stalker for quite a while. He drew cartoons of the baby I lost, mocked the death of my mother, and accused my husband, who has no online presence at all, of cheating. I don’t talk to black men online andwon’t friend them on FB i just don’t need the grief. There are a few, that I’ve known long enough to know they’re sane, or they’re personal friends. Otherwise no way!

    All this sturm und drang is informed by one thing, they’re pissed because their back up pussy got away. Here’s one comment I got in an email.

    “I saw your comments complaining about Black men on “Clutchmagazine’s” site.  But when I was led to your website, it all made sense to me when I saw your book — a Black woman hugging a White man.
    Some believe love is blind, but to actually write a book with a Black woman hugging a White man on it is a mindset I hope you arrived at responsibly.
    In other words, whether you like it or not, White men, in general, are the most racist people on the planet because of our culture of racism.  So when a Black woman in 2010 dates, marries, or otherwise, a White man, you have to wonder if she’s engaged in a long process with him about racism? I doubt it.  When White men have the hardest time with race in our society, it makes you wonder what’s going on in the mind of a Black woman who would embrace someone who historically simply doesn’t “get it” when it comes to race because they benefit from racism but still don’t like to talk about it, don’t have to deal with it much, and still whine.  There are very few White men who will love not only you, but also your Black father, brothers, and uncles.  Thus, his love for you is probably superficial.

    It’s no different that wondering why a Black woman would jump into a relationship with a brother who just got out of jail — why hasn’t she done her homework?
    I mean, really, how silly is it that a Black woman would write a book about loving her oppressor?  So, yes, it’s not hard to figure out why you’re on “Clutchmagazines” back — you have serious issues with Black men.  Funny thing is, however, all the Black women that do, usually have a history of bad choices regarding the Black men they’ve dated.  And now they’re mad.
    I hope your son doesn’t grow up hating himself because you hate Black men, obviously.”

    Yeah, it’s so irresponsible of me to have a book with a black woman hugging “her oppressor.” Guess he doesn’t want to know how much time my characters spend fucking their “oppressor”? And that bullshit about a white man not loving my male relatives? Fuck, I don’t love all my male relatives. Why would I hold him to a higher standard than I hold myself, or black men I’ve dated? Note also how they never talk about white women being racist. And Lord knows those of us who’ve survived repeated #racefails have seen buckets of that shit. But oh no, white women aren’t racist even when they’re all over YT talking about black men and their horse dicks. So yeah, they couldn’t be more transparent if they were made of plate glass.

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  • @Lori: I think that younger people have less of a problem with it than we do, my sister happily dates within and outside her race, and doesn’t bat an eyelid, in fact her current boyfriend is a white guy that she met in Qatar.

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  • I’ve never been directly confronted but I did get the stink eye from a black guy when I was out in public with my husband and this guy was hugged up to a white woman.It made absolutely no sense but me. Basically I ignore the kinds of people who have a problem with my relationship. This is a great series, keep posting.

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  • kerry
    August 22
    2:45 pm

    I don’t really have anything to add to the conversation as I am married (white, to someone white also) but I am enjoying reading your posts on the subject so I hope that you keep them up.

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  • Is TTG phenotypically biracial? Because I got some blowback when I dated a biracial guy. He was more along the Vin Diesel look, but not quite Wentworth Miller. To me he looke biracial, but a perfect stranger got in my face about him.

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  • Aw Karen, that’s such a sad story. I don’t think you should give yourself a hard time for not being ready to defy society at 13, though. Especially if you didn’t even really like the guy to begin with.

    I’m kind of surprised, because I always get the feeling from t.v. that England is much less racist than the States. All the colorblind casting on Dr. Who, etc. Just a beautiful dream? Or do you think you were in a particularly conservative area? I don’t remember any flack from dating a black guy when I was a teen, but it was a very (self-conscoiusly) liberal area. Or maybe I just didn’t notice because I was the white one.

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  • @Roslyn Holcomb: Hi Ros, TTG looks bi-racial to me, but I do think it would be hard to mistake him for anything than a mixture of black and white. We’ve never been given ‘the eye’ by black men in all the years we’ve been together, and whites only see the black in him anyway.

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  • @Willaful: I definitely think we are a lot less racist than the US, but I think that the whole slavery history makes a complicated past, even more complex and nuanced. And in all honesty, I think black men across the world are similar, they may not want to date black women, but they really don’t want us to date white men either. It’s annoying.

    Funnily enough, I don’t get weird looks from white guys, when I’m in the company of other white men, which happens frequently. It seems to be a bit of a black issue, more often than not.

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  • @Willaful: Oh and I meant to add, I think white people who are comfortable dating outside their race don’t notice the stares as much, I think blacks – especially women – look for the stares and the looks of disapproval. I think naturally we feel more defensive about dating outside our race.

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  • @Dawn Brookes: Dawn, I think you make a good point, the more you’re exposed to different races and cultures, the more you’re likely to not have a problem with dating outside your race. I’ve been surrounded by whites, blacks, and Asians (the Indian and Pakistani variety) all my life, so I rarely bat an eyelid when I see interracial couples. I totally agree with you re seeing black women and white men, I like it. I feel as if we’re finally doing what black men have been doing for years, instead of just staying with ‘our own’ out of fear of being condemned. I think it’s liberating, and the more it happens, the better if you ask me.

    I often wonder if the lack of exposure to other cultures is one of the reasons why the US seem so much more racist than the UK. Of course we have our own racist fringe, but I do think the fact that we’re happy to go to far off places means that we get educated a lot better and quicker than a lot of Americans who never venture out from their state. Americans, do you agree or disagree?

    And by the way, that’s not to say that America isn’t multicultural, but generally most foreign-born or ethnic American people, are under a lot of pressure to become westernised.

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  • @Karen Scott: That’s an interesting point — I do get the sense from media that it’s much easier & cheaper for people in England to travel outside the country, so much more common than it is for Americans. Our big cities e do have non-Westernized pockets (Chinatowns, etc.) but there’s a lot of America that isn’t big cities.

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  • Matt
    August 22
    7:39 pm

    @Karen Scott:

    Enjoyed this post, never visited your blog before Karen, but this was good.

    I’m a white guy married to a black woman, I live in a very racially mixed area of London. In the early days when we began dating my wife was quite concerned about publicly showing affection. I just accepted this was the way she wanted to play it, if she wasn’t comfortable, I just supported her on what she wanted to do. Like you said in another reply, I think she used to go looking for the looks, the reality was they were few and far between, but I suppose it doesn’t take many.

    We moved to this area a few years ago, and we both feel comfortable here. It’s probably one of the more settled areas of town, with a very young average age.. not particularly trendy, but young. Mixed race relationships here are very common and mixed race children are everywhere during school holidays. It isn’t quite utopia yet, I’m sure there’s still plenty with issues… but having been to America, we have it so much better here.

    I’m mildly jealous of the gentleman that has no online presense btw, what must he do with all the extra time ? 🙂

    I’m not sure what I came to say, maybe it was just to tell a happy story. As a white guy though, I find it difficult to comment on some of the above, something I have learnt from my wife is that it can be difficult to understand ‘how’ it is to be her. Intellectually, yes, but the reality with emotions, impossible really. It’s a crying shame that some people feel unable to look amongst the entire population for a mate, whether you want to or not. I would say that personally I have copped more ‘looks’ from black women than men, not sure why….

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  • che
    August 22
    7:51 pm

    I came of age in the ’70’s and back in my residential high school, interracial dating was expressly discouraged, still there were a couple of interracial couples. I wasn’t close enough to those couples to know if anyone gave them grief.

    I’m also from the South, so of course interracial dating was frowned upon, too. So for both reasons, I’ve never dated outside my race, though I was close friends with a few black guys.

    Nowadays, whether at my old school or in my small southern town, no one bats an eye. Progress, I guess.

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  • foosrock!
    August 22
    8:42 pm

    I want to say, BAH! and MEH! to all the non PDAs expressed by couples who felt self-conscious for whatever reason(s), but that would be non-empathic as I too was in this phase when I got married at 23yrs(we met when I was almost 18yrs) some generations ago to a caucasian male. The saddest thing for me though is that young black women today, in interracial relationships, who are still feeling this way in 2012.

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  • foosrock!
    August 22
    8:46 pm

    …..”I would say that personally I have copped more ‘looks’ from black women than men, not sure why…. ”

    They’re checking you out…..positively. Happened to my (ex)husband a lot. Black women loved him BECAUSE he married moi!.

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  • @Matt: Hi Matt, thanks for commenting, I think as a white guy in an IR relationship with a black woman, you’re in a perfect position to give us the wisdom of your experiences, and besides, it’s good to have a white male perspective.

    I think London is a great city in terms of people not giving a crap who you date. I think it’s one city that I can say is truly multicultural in every way.

    How long have you and your wife been together, and had you dated a black woman prior to her?

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  • @Matt: Hey Matt, I just realised who you are, I thought you were some random, hahaha! Welcome to KKB!

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  • Yes Matt they are so checking you out. My husband gets the same. Fortunately he’s so clueless he has no idea, and I plan to keep him that way!

    @Karen, that’s what I figured. I only ever dated one biracial guy, and I didn’t know he was mixed until he told me. There simply weren’t that many around back when I was single.

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  • Toni
    August 23
    12:09 am

    Hugs to school-age Karen. I graduated high school in the U.S. in the 90s, and there was never any shortage of black men hitting on me and my girlfriends. From the time I went through puberty at age 12 (yes 12!), young and old black men were constantly hitting on me. This is not any special homage to my beauty. Most of the plain to reasonably attractive black women I know have the same experience. Of course, I live in the south where the traditional black female shape of big butt, big hips, small waist and big boobs is still a standard for black men. Not to say there aren’t plenty of black men with white or Latina women, there are. I’m sure there are also many who date those women exclusively.

    Funny thing though, I find that black men who intentionally and exclusively date outside of their race are men I would never consider for a long-term relationship anyway. There is often some kernel of self-loathing that comes out on closer contact that renders them unattractive to me.

    As a woman of approximately your same skin color, I have noticed that fair-skinned and biracial men are particularly attracted to me. In fact, I married a biracial man who self-identifies as black. I never get nasty looks when I’m out with him, but I’m pretty sure that when we’re together, people know he’s black. When he’s not with me, he looks quite racially ambiguous, and people think he is Latino, Middle Eastern, black, etc. A lot of times, they wind up asking him his ethnicity.

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  • Matt
    August 23
    12:48 am

    @Karen Scott:

    I hadn’t dated black girls before my wife. We’ve been together 10 years now…time flies! We have a little girl, who is the cutest. But then, I’m biased. I was thinking the other day just how many mixed race kids we see day to day round here, fairly soon it’s going to become pointless classifying each other at this rate. Though obviously, it’s important to have an identity… The mix is amazing here though, pale skinned with afro, darker skin with lighter eyes and straight hair..

    I’m sure not all the black girls are eyeing me up, I’m a bit of a scruff ball day to day! More likely asking what she saw in me 🙂

    It’s an interesting topic. Can’t help but feel there’s too much generalisation goes on when it comes to things like this. As I say above I’m not sure I’m that qualified to give much opinion on this, I like to keep things simple.

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  • LVLMLeah
    August 23
    3:02 am

    I live in an area that’s pretty liberal as far as mix-raced couples go. I often see, to my delight, older black women with white men. Of course I see a lot of black men/white women, black/Latino, Latino/white as well.

    Interestingly, I don’t see too many Asian/Black or Asian/White couples even though the Asian population is high in my area.

    I’ve also seen quite a few mixed race gay/lesbian couples. Lots of black/white lesbian couples.

    I myself am a white woman married to an Asian.

    I feel that mixed race couples are not a big deal where I live and I love that fact. In a way, any area in which you see a liberal smattering of mix raced couples usually means an open minded community, which I would rather live in.

    However, I know in much of America it’s still a big issue and racism is still simmers underneath when it comes to judgements of people relating with those outside their race.

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  • Dawn Brookes
    August 23
    9:25 am

    I love the cultural diversity of England – I feel safe here and I love to see mixed race couples with their kids.

    The times we’ve holidayed in America, particularly Florida, I’ve felt conspicuous. Because I could pass for white and my husband is, obviously, a lot darker than me, I felt exposed. I didn’t look out for any stares, but I felt very, very conscious of America’s race history.

    Race isn’t a problem with my family (and frankly it shouldn’t be). The entire family are mongrels. From my maternal grandparents BM/WM in 30s/40s England then moving the family to Chicago in the 60s, to my dad’s side – White/Indian/Black in Jamaica.

    I love the way our family is – from me, the pastiest of the lot, to my brother with his light grey eyes, to the newest member, little Ben, with his pale skin and bright blue eyes.

    Roll on the future when we won’t double take when we see couples/families of any combination. And I think the UK is much further along to this time than many other countries (except maybe the West Indies).

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  • Great post, Karen. I have dated only white men, mostly Italian and it has been as you mentioned, old school the eye looks from men of my race. Even my father,although my stepmother was Caucasian, he was fine with that. But his daughters dating outside the race? It was a huge no-no. Then again, his generation was much different and the whole of his perspective, I grew to understand as I got older. Still, my brothers are like that. They will date outside our race,but frown upon us when we do. Will it ever change?Maybe, one day. But I can’t help what I’m attracted to nor will feel shame for doing so. Probably why I write about white knights 🙂

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  • Great post, Karen. Interesting comments from everyone else, too.

    I’m white and married to an Asian man for 19 years now. We started dating when I was in college and he in grad school back in the late 80s. I live in New Jersey within the suburbs of NYC, so this area is pretty racially and ethnically diverse and I guess I can generalize and say people in this type of melting pot are more open minded to mixed race couples and families. Having said that, there are a lot of places in the US [and even in communities within NJ outside the metro area] where we would simply never consider living. Whether we were together or not.. we could not tolerate living among so many intolerant, racist people. Perhaps I’m getting off topic.

    I grew up in the 70s and 80s and lived in a predominantly white suburb. I dated a black guy in high school and tried to keep it secret from my family for fear of repercussions. I eventually told my mom and she pretty much said, “Don’t let your father find out.” I guess I was a lot like the 13 year old you and didn’t really know how to sort my sense of what I thought was right and wrong and what I knew my parents would approve or object to. It was confusing. One time some teenagers shouted out from window on the street, “N*gger lover” when I was walking home from school alone. It was very upsetting to me. I didn’t break up with the guy because of it or anything, but it was so awful. I remember it vividly to this day and that took place in 1983!

    I started dating my now husband–who is Asian, in college in 1989 and by then I had complete confidence to date whomever I wanted and display public affection like holding hands and not care what strangers thought. Sadly my own immediate family were the ones with the problem. At first they were okay with it.. but within a year I was disowned and haven’t been in contact with them in over 20 years. It’s more complicated than that, but that’s it in a nutshell.

    One more thought I’d like to add. In my 20s and 30s as I made friends in workplaces or in the community, it’s natural for the subject of family to eventually come up and when I explained that I am no longer in touch with my family, I inevitably explain that I’ve been disowned because of my interracial relationship with my husband. I can’t tell you how many times my story is followed by, “That’s terrible. It’s not like he’s [my husband] black.” I’ve followed with, “Does it matter? It’s the same thing!” They end up fumbling through some half assed response and the conversation moves on. I’m not sure why that is. I can’t get my head around how some people think.

    The happy thing is that now.. at age 43 and married to my husband for 19 years, I rarely ever think of us as an interracial couple. We’re just us. 🙂

    Every once in a while I’m reminded of it, though. The most recent example is when we traveled this summer and were going through customs. The officers try to put us on separate lines because they don’t realize we’re together. Then the look of surprise and the look from me to him to me to him to our kids after we say we’re together kind of gives it away. I could be wrong, but I don’t think I am. After more than two decades of being in an interracial relationship you kind of know these things.

    Sorry my reply was so long! I guess your posts and all of the comments gave me a lot to think about, reminisce and want to share.

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  • Tommy
    March 17
    3:29 pm

    My name is Tommy and I live in Alabama which is still culturally challenged to say the least , I’m a white guy in my mid 40s and I’ve dated several women of color and have found it quite refreshing , yes times they are a changing !!! As for people staring or giving us looks who cares , I’ve never lived my life but by my own rules and will continue to do so , who a person is with is their own business , be it black white rich poor gay or straight ect …… I personally have never had a problem but one girl I was out with was concerned about being too close to me in public because of others , I didn’t give it a second thought but obviously she had caught some grief in her past which led to this … But anyways , live your own life and love your partner with everything you’ve got no matter who that may be or where they may be from , life is just too short to do otherwise !!!!!!

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