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You know, sometimes I just don’t get other black people.

I was talking to the husband of a friend the other day, when the subject of gay men came up. According to my friend’s hubbie, being gay is totally wrong, and “they should all be shot”.

I looked at him incredulously to check to see if that statement was his idea of a joke, but alas, it wasn’t. He totally meant it. Wanker.

I obviously wanted to know why he felt like that, but to be honest, he couldn’t give me any answers that made sense. I think he trawled out the usual “It’s supposed to be Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” bullshit. Can’t these twats ever think of something new and original?

I did ask him if he genuinely thought that somebody’s sexual orientation was a good enough excuse to beat them up, or even kill them. He of course back-pedddled like a mother-f*cker, and acknowledged that people shouldn’t be killed just because they happen to be gay. Gee… ya think?

I’ve never understood why a race of men people, who have been marginalised throughout history because of their colour, can justify such homophobic attitudes.

If that wasn’t bad enough, today I read that Brokeback Mountain has been banned in the Bahamas because of it’s gay theme.

What. The. Fuck?

How the hell does that happen in this day and age? More to the point, which fuck-wit let it happen?

No wonder so many black, gay men today, refuse to come out of the closet. With attitudes like that pervading our very existence, is it any wonder some black men prefer to kill themselves or endeavour to live dual lives, rather than face people knowing their ‘shameful’ secret.

25 Comments »


  • Tara Marie
    April 4
    8:24 pm

    Unfortunately, there are enough homophobic white men to go around too.

    I have a friend who has a theory why men or more homophobic than women:

    Men are pigs, everyone knows men are pigs and we women know how to deal with men who hit on us on a regular basis and can actually say no. Men have difficulty saying no when hit on and homophobic men aren’t sure they can say no even when hit on by another man.

    Convoluted, but might make some sense in a strange man way. *g*

    In all seriousness, it’s rather sad that in today’s world, people have a problem accepting different lifestyles.

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  • Reese
    April 5
    12:15 am

    Karen, I love the way sometimes you write “f*ck” and sometimes you just write “fuck.” I once had a roomate who surprised me by saying that she thought all gays should be “lined up and shot.” This girl was into S and M. No shit. You would have thought she would have been a little more open minded. F*ck that girl was gross.

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  • Rosie
    April 5
    3:42 am

    Even though you know people with great prejudice are out there it ALWAYS startles me when someone says something as obviously ignorant as your friend’s husband. (That Adam & Steve thing makes me want to choke someone.)

    My family is a large one. We have many different religions and many different races and cultures represented just in my immediate family between my husband’s clan and mine.

    So for me a rude remark about religion, race, or sexual orientation is usually going to be about someone I love…it’s personal. But the person making the remark only sees what I am, a white middle-aged woman and not who I am.

    I’m not saying you have to be related to a person to be offended by the sorts of remarks your friend’s husband made, I’m just saying people say things all the time without knowing who or how they might be offending the listener.

    To me it’s not about being PC. It’s about being tolerant and compassionate.

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  • Anonymous
    April 5
    5:08 am

    Er…no comment.

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  • Dawn
    April 5
    9:39 am

    It’s a sad truth. My youngest brother has been single for the longest time, and occasionally I ask him if he’s got a girlfriend, then I ask if he’s got a boyfriend. If he does turn out to be gay, frankly, I don’t care – I just want him to be happy.

    My aunt is married to – and is – a Jehovah’s Witless. Her husband says that being gay is wrong. I’ve asked him several times what he would do if one of his sons turned out gay. He said he would disown him. How stupid is that?

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  • Scott
    April 5
    10:58 am

    Gee thanks Tara Marie for lumping in all of us men as pigs and homophobic. There are many times when I see a guy acting like a complete ass and feel embarrassed to be a part of my gender. But when women like you just make sweeping generalities, it sure doesn’t help us.

    Though there is one thing that I do agree with you, is that it isn’t just black men that are homophobic.

    Fortunately some of my best friends honestly don’t have a problem with gay men, following my opinions and feelings. I feel very uncomfortable when men start making comments like “They should round up all the fags and shoot ’em!” I just can’t understand where that comes from. It is like they think they have no rights. And these guys that make the comments like “It’s supposed to be Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” aren’t he church going types either, so don’t start playing the religious card because it’s hypocritical.

    The funny thing too is that there are guys that are not good looking and are complete idiots, yet they think that EVERY gay man wants them. I would tend to think that if the guy has a hard time getting women to even talk to them, why do they think all gay men would lust for them.

    And for the record, yes I have been hit on by a gay man. It didn’t make me sick to my stomach or make me want to shoot him. Actually, I was kind of flattered. A HUMAN BEING found me interesting or attractive enough to want to get to know me.

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  • Tara Marie
    April 5
    11:53 am

    Scott,

    I am so sorry for offending you, I gave a friends theory, not my own.

    Personally, I think most homophobic men are insecure about something, whether it’s their own sexuality or other issue, who knows.

    And, for the record, I have been hit on by lesbians, and I agree with you, I too was kind of flattered.

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  • Desiree Erotique
    April 5
    1:22 pm

    Whenever a person gets on a podium and preaches vehemently against a certain lifestyle, I have to wonder about their true motives.

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  • Maili
    April 5
    4:36 pm

    My cousin is weird – he’s fine with gay men [probably because one of his brothers is gay], but he has serious issues about lesbians. He thinks they are ‘brainwashed’ or has something wrong with their heads because in his views, women are on earth to serve MEN. *eyes roll* I can’t tell you how many times we fought over this issue. OK, I’m leaving because my blood pressure is starting to skyrocket.

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  • Karen Scott
    April 5
    6:15 pm

    Tara, I’ve always wondered why men have a harder time with gay men. I love gay men, if there are any gay guys in need of a beard, I’m your girl!

    Reese, if I actually write the whole word, it shows that I’m really pissed off, whereas if I insert the star, it shows that I’m just incredulous! *g*

    Rosie, I must admit, it always manages to surprise the hell out of me constantly! But that attitude definitely seems to be more of a guy thing. I don’t know if women are necessarily more tolerant than men, but I know that none of my girlfriends would ever say anything so utterly ridic.

    Anonymous, er, no comment either *g*

    Dawn, I’ve often wondered how I would feel if one of my brothers turned out to be gay, and in all honesty, I really don’t think, in fact I know that it wouldn’t change the way I feel about them. They’re my family and I love ’em no matter what.

    Ahhh Scott, no, you’r right, not all men are pigs, but the thing is, the ones that are really do the rest of your species an injustice. I have found though that generally, men are more of everything. They are more racist than women, they are more intolerant of people in general, and they are more likely to stab you during an argument than a woman. I’m just saying. *g*

    Tara, I’ve been hit on by many lesbians, and most of the time, I haven’t realised I was being hit on until after the event, lol

    Des, it says more about them than it does about anybody else. When people protest that much, it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that they’re leading the very same lives that they are busy publicly condemning.

    Maili, I think I would have probably Liverpool-Kissed your cousin, if he voiced that sexist nonsense to me. Defend that attitude Scott! *g*

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  • Anonymous
    April 5
    6:50 pm

    Let me disagree about the prevailing opinion that men/women that are homophobic have hang-ups or issues about their own sexuality or own selves. This simply isn’t true. That isn’t to say it may not be true in some cases, but I don’t think it is in all cases.

    Do all the people who passionately denounce child pornography or child molestation have hang ups about themselves on those issues? I realize this is a completely different issue than gay/lesbian, but the way normal people feel about it is the same. People find same sex relations and public displays of it just as disgusting and folks should just learn and understand that just because men don’t jump on the “it’s okay to live life per your own hedonistic rules of human existence” bandwangon, that doesn’t mean they have repressed gay feelings or whatever. It just disgusting, that’s all. People can’t express that though nowadays without being labeled negatively.

    And I have to take offense at you Karen for comparing this to blacks and racism. I’m a white female and even I find that incomparable in scope and an insult to the historic injustice imposed on blacks. No I’m not saying someone should be ill-treated because of their sexual orientation, but this idea that have to walk around wearing it on their sleeves like a right of passage or something is ridiculous and shameful. They insist their normal, that it’s just one part of who they are….Well then, keep that crap to yourself…just like normal people do.

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  • Scott
    April 5
    7:32 pm

    I should point out that I was not offended, Tara. Just frustrated. I am not saying that I am any better then the average guy, but I strive to be. And I don’t like befriending other men that don’t think that way either.

    And Karen, though it is a sweeping generality, I do agree with you that men are more intolerant then women on most subjects. This does defend Tara’s point, but from my experience it’s true. However, I just like to stand up for those of us men that try not to be pigs.

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  • Karen Scott
    April 5
    7:43 pm

    “Let me disagree about the prevailing opinion that men/women that are homophobic have hang-ups or issues about their own sexuality or own selves.”

    You’re allowed to disagree with me, just as I’m allowed to disagree with you.

    The thing is, in my opinion, if anything makes you uncomfortable, it’s a hang-up, and yes actually luvvie, I do have hang-ups about child porn, I have huge hang-ups about pedophiles, and yes, those hang-ups are totally sexual, as in I don’t get how anybody could look at a three year old, and see a sexual object. And yes, I would happily see those bastards castrated and boiled in a vat of oil.

    I’m not sure how you can compare homophobia with the wideley agreed consensus that anything that harms children is just plain wrong. What kind of argument is that for Oprah’s sake?

    “People find same sex relations and public displays of it just as disgusting”

    Hmmm, I’m guessing that you’re a homophobe right?

    “and folks should just learn and understand that just because men don’t jump on the “it’s okay to live life per your own hedonistic rules of human existence” bandwangon, that doesn’t mean they have repressed gay feelings or whatever. It just disgusting,”

    Hmmm so you think that being gay equates to hedonism huh? OK, yep, you’re definitely a homophobe, but don’t worry, I wont hold that against you. I have friends who are just like you’ so I’m totally down with you homophobes in the hood, and shit.

    “And I have to take offense at you Karen for comparing this to blacks and racism. I’m a white female and even I find that incomparable in scope and an insult to the historic injustice imposed on blacks.”

    Now that statement calls for a “Bitch Please!”

    Not only are you a homophobe, you’re also an effing lily-livered do-gooding liberal. If you read my blog regularly, then you’ll know just how much I loathe tree-hugging, cardigan-wearing, vegetarians.

    This blog is all about my opinions, you can take offense at anything you damn well like, but please refrain from telling me that black people shouldn’t remember their history, and use it as a tool to prevent the same kind of atrocities from happening to other people who are perceived to be different also.

    As a black person, I choose to remember the savage cruelty that was deemed acceptable once upon a time. I choose to remember the pain and suffering that man caused his fellow man, because he was a different colour.

    Homophobia is no different to racism, and the fact that you think it is, says more about you than it does me.

    If I had a brother who was gay and somebody beat him up or killed him because of his ‘hedonistic existence’ would I mourn less because he was attacked due to his sexual orientation, rather than his colour? Whatever, go buy yourself a clue.

    By the way, it’s totally up to you, if you want to remain anonymous, but that just gives me carte blanche to be as shockingly rude as I want to be.

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  • madukwriter
    April 5
    9:19 pm

    Black people are pretty prejudiced in their outlook on life. I think it gets worse through lack of integration. People fear what they don’t understand or are exposed to. Homosexuality has been taught in church to be wrong. As a lot of black folks were brought up in church this has seeped into black culture. Whether you go into church or not. How many gay black rappers do you see? Lack of integration with other races does not help to change these viewpoints.

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  • Megan Frampton
    April 5
    11:03 pm

    Karen:

    Thanks for raising this issue, I’ve noticed it a lot. One time I was working on a music industry event and a hip-hop artist refused to be on the same panel with RuPaul because RuPaul was gay. No-one remembers that artist’s name now (except me–it was Positive K), which makes me happy in a mean-spirited way.

    But I have a question: Isn’t it still illegal in some Caribbean countries to be homosexual? I thought I remembered that from when I was in Jamaica (for a family member’s wedding). Which would explain the bias, although obviously not justify it. So the sheep people in the country there would think being gay was wrong, because the gov’t said so.

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  • Lauren Dane
    April 6
    5:45 am

    Ugh! Headdesk! Headdesk! This issue really irks me. Stand back, I’m gonna rant. It’s everywhere, white, black, male, female…

    In the first place anonymous, there is no comparison between hating pedophelia in which people are victimized by those who should be protecting them, and being gay. None. Sorry. Issue non existent.

    In the second place, “normal people” feel offended by gays? Is there a committee now of “normal” people who hand down pronouncements about this sort of thing?

    Normal people keep it to themselves? Really? When I walk down the street with my husband and he holds my hand or kisses me that’s not keeping it to myself and yet, I’ve never had anyone castigate me for my blatant heterosexuality.

    And let me add, anonymous, that it IS homphobic to be so concerned about what other people do or don’t do with their respective willies and hoohaas in their own homes with consenting adults.

    The question is why are people so obsessed with gays and what kind of sex they have? I’ve noticed this about people who love to condemn gays and lesbians.

    Okay, so I write sex. I do actually spend a lot of time thinking about sex and yeah, if you walk past me I may just be thinking about you. But I cannot for the life of me understand why homophobes are obsessed with it to the point of talking about it all the time. Hell, I write it and I talk about it less of the time than homophobes do.

    If you don’t like it, don’t do it. Wow, easy huh? If you dont’ like Brokeback Mountain, go see another movie.

    Yes, I have a personal stake here. We happen to have a lot of gay and lesbian people in our lives who are wonderful and loving people who struggle every day against stupid prejudices like they’re pedophiles and hedonists.

    Deep breath. And so, my guise of mild mannered author who never says anything controversial is now gone.

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  • Scott
    April 6
    10:48 am

    Lauren Dane said:

    “We happen to have a lot of gay and lesbian people in our lives who are wonderful and loving people who struggle every day against stupid prejudices like they’re pedophiles and hedonists.”

    Damn straight …… err, well, you know what I mean. 😉

    Stereotypes are not a good thing, but the stereotypical gay man is some that is very caring and would do about anything for their friends. They go out of their way to help those in need. Last time I checked, those qualities are good. So why does what they do with a consenting adult in the privacy of their own home hurt anyone else?

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  • Sam
    April 6
    4:45 pm

    I know guys are going to jump on me for making a sweeping statement – but maybe aggression is a ‘guy’ thing. Out of a hundred men and women, how many men would make a statement like ‘I’d like to kill that f*cker’ and how many women would make it?
    Police statistics show that violent crime is commited 90% by males. I don’t think it’s black/white/yellow/green….I think it’s a male/female thing.
    (JMO backed up by some insteresting statistics, lol)

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  • Anonymous
    April 7
    12:17 am

    Homosexuality is the very definition of hedonism. I’m pretty sure the reproductive results of sex occur when they do it…only no reproduction can occur can it? You let me know when it can. Last time I checked (despite the fact that yes, normal people have sex for pleasure) sex and everything that happens during and because if it had to do with reproduction. Sperm, egg. You get my drift. Something’s missing in that equation when it’s two people of the same sex. Seems to me there’s a lot more that points to it being a purely hedonistic existence than not. You let me know when their “sexual orientation” veers from the process nature created into one that says we’re supposed to do this purely for our own pleasure……..and yes, it is your blog. I never inferred otherwise. Over and out.

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  • Karen Scott
    April 8
    8:31 am

    Anonymous, you’re a bible basher aren’t you? I bet you agreed with Bill Napoli’s stance on abortions too.

    If you only have sex for reproduction purposes, then I can understand why you’re so wound up.

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  • Anonymous
    April 9
    2:57 am

    Karen, now you’re showing how hard you’re trying to be right rather than concede to reality. Where in that did I say that I only have sex for reproduction purposes? But you had to go there and make it personal to me rather than keep it general. Tsk, tsk.

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  • Lauren Dane
    April 9
    5:25 am

    The very definition of hedonism? Well, no actually. The psychological defintion of hedonism is: “The doctrine holding that behavior is motivated by the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain.”

    The basic defintion is: “Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses.”

    Now, I know how much homophobes love to imagine that gay people are only about sex and they have it 24/7 in front of children and helpless old ladies, but no, homosexuality is not the “very definition” of hedonism.

    Homosexuality is where the sexual identity (and most scientists believe this to be biologically determined at birth) causes attraction to the same sex instead of the opposite sex.

    Now, on to the ridiculous (and sadly often repeated) “argument” that as sex is for reproduction gays are against nature for doing it. Bullshit. Does that mean infertile people are against nature too? What about people who are past childbearing age? Are they hedonists? I won’t even ask what you’d think about oral sex or masturbation.

    You’ve got nothing. Your “arguments” hold no water. It’s really that you don’t like gay people and you’re searching for a reason why that doesn’t sound bigoted. But there are no reasons that don’t sound bigoted because it IS bigoted.

    You’re the one who needs to concede to reality and stop making excuses for it. You don’t like gay people cause they’re gay. Period. There’s no legitimate reason for it. Own it and try to deal or move on and wear it proudly.

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  • Karen Scott
    April 9
    5:53 am

    Listen up Bitch, I’m not conceding a damn thing, and If I want to make this personal, I will. The fact that you’re anonymous gives me carte blanche to make this as personal as I want. You’re an effing bigot, you can couch it in as many flowery words as you like, the bottom line is, you’re the type of human being that I’d walk across the street to avoid.

    Now fuck off and go and bother somebody else, either that or get your own blog, and stop pissing all over mine with your warped views of life.

    Is that personal enough for you, because if it isn’t, I could get a whole lot more personal.

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  • Karen Scott
    April 10
    12:05 am

    Dear Anonymous *g*

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  • I’ve gone through some nasty ass shit in my life.
    But… none of it can even remotely compare to some of the stuff I have heard from Black Gay Men. The worst part is the treatment they got from their own families and communities they grew up in when the truth came out.

    Just sad really.

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