"Change Takes Time" – A Mid-Way Ramble…
Wednesday, March 21, 2007Posted in: rambling racism shelving and marketing
“We are the sum total of our experiences. And again maybe I’m a fucking Pollyanna about all of this but I believe we are only as pigeon-holed as we allow others to pigeon-hole us (in any way shape or form).”
I read this on Cece’s blog earlier today, and I have to say, Halle-effing-lujah.
I do believe that we are the sum total of our experiences. My experience as a black person, is different from a lot of other blacks.
The racial divide is there, but sometimes you’ve gotta say fuck it, this is who I am, this is how I think. It doesn’t make me a sell-out, it just means that I refuse to get bogged down by racial issues, and see racist intent around every corner. As far as I’m concerned, that way leads madness.
The Shelving Issue
The question that hasn’t been answered to my satisfaction yet, is who is responsible for romance books being shelved in the AA section?
The publishers who believe that niche marketing works? The bookstores who want to make sure that the books are easily accessible to AA readers? Or the AA readers themselves who want the books to be easily accessible to them?
Who has the power to make wholesale changes to the way that AA-authored books are currently shelved?
One question that nobody seems to have asked is, what happens if the ideal compromise re shelving, is reached? What then? What’s the next argument?
In my opinion, it then boils down to one thing. Getting white folks to get over the “But I can’t relate to ‘those’ types of characters” line. That’s a lame excuse, and will continue to be a lame excuse, especially as you Americans seem to love those European hystericals with their lords and ladies, and roguish dukes, and virginal duchesses, whom y’all have fuck-all in common with.
How to achieve this? Bloody good marketing, that’s how.
Coming up next: Shelia Goss (you may want to turn down the volume, as there’s music on this site)
TheVixenne
March 21
9:14 pm
I’ve said before it’s amazing that all these complaints come from non-black readers who’ve never been:
A: Kidnapped and held as a love slave of some pirate, viking, hunky alien, vampire or shapeshifter
B: Lived in Regency or Renaissance Europe and danced a quadrille with a dashing rake or lived in a castle with a kilted Scottish laird
C: Had more than one hunky male strip them naked and do totally bad things to them (bad in a good way)
Ironically as a black American person who does Elizabethan re-enactments (stark raving member of the SCA) and Highland games, I’ve been far closer to hunky kilted Scotsmen and virile Vikings than many of the endlessly ignorant non-black readers who refuse to go near multicultural fiction because they “cannot relate”. I’m the one who gets to do kilt checks (tee hee…boy do I have a bunch of tales about those). Oh and don’t get me started about being a member of the gothic community as well. I KNOW vampires ladies (okay, so maybe they’re not real but I’m still a lot closer than most).
Let the excuses continue so I can just shoot them full of holes.
CM
March 21
11:26 pm
Thanks so much for the service you’re doing here.
I’m not black, but I’ve actively looked for romances with black or Latino characters while browing in the romance section. I had no idea why I could never find them until I read your blog.
Now that I know I need to look in the AA section, I’ll be sure to buy a handful, and let the publishers know how I feel.
I don’t know who these people are who “can’t relate to ‘those’ types of characters.” The mark of a great author is that they’ll make me relate to the characters no matter what. That’s why I buy books in the first place: to experience the world through someone else’s eyes.
Shiloh Walker
March 22
12:47 am
Karen, I just love your take on things.. lol.
Now I can’t claim to have ever been on the end of the kind of prejudice that black people have received, but most people have had people make judgements about them based on either their race, their sex, the age, their income status…by their family. Now most of that, I have been thru, especially growing up and if I let other people’s perceptions of me shape who I am, I’d be living the projects earning minimum wage flipping hamburgers and married to some scumbag.
I realize it can’t be easy when your road is full with obstacles but they can be overcome.
I think you’ve done an amazing thing here and even if just a few more readers go seeking out romances by black authors, then that’s a strike in the win column right? Because readers talk… they share the books they love, they talk about the authors they love. It may be a small victory, but wars are won thru small victories.
Shiloh Walker
March 22
12:48 am
oh crap, now the double post is hitting me. Thanks, Kate. Your doubles were contagious.
Rosie
March 22
5:25 am
Karen, Cece’s post was great. I’m so glad she decided to share it and you gave us all a heads up. It really resonated for me because my boys are adopted.
Angelle Trieste
March 22
5:53 am
I think it goes beyond the “cannot relate” thing.
I think that many romance readers read romance for escapism and fantasy. I think it was Karen who said that she doesn’t like PG stuff — she likes her books with hot sex. And sex / attraction / romantic relationship is a very intimate and private thing — more so than fighting the evil galactic emperor or destroying THE ring — and the reason why people like rakes and dukes and whatnot is not because they’re relatable, but because they represent a certain archetype or elements of a romantic relationship that attract them.
For example some readers LOVE cowboys / western romance novels. I don’t read them because I think it sucks that the heroine would end up with a cowboy / rancher and live in a place without a huge mall within a 10-minute driving distance. (That’s my idea of crappy life — I’m a city girl…can’t help it.) So I rarely if ever read cowboy / rancher stories because they have elements that I don’t find attractive or compelling TO ME.
OTOH — I love books with vamps because they represent immortality (and eternal love/devotion) and in the case of JR Ward’s series the ultimate bad boys / warriors. The fact that the right women / mates can tame those bad boys and warriors — that’s sexy as well as intriguing. And same for the werewolves — the animal instinct / savage passion, mating for life, the social structure that’s designed to provide order and protection — this is probably very sexy to many people. So I think that when people say they can relate or like certain subgenres, it’s because they contain elements of fantasy / needs that readers want. That’s why a reader says she reads all kinds of romance subgenres and that she can relate to many paranormal creatures, dukes and CEOs, but if you analyze the books she really likes, you may be able to glean some similarities in the hero / relationship archetypes.
I think that the problem is that many black authors have presented their books as being similar to those white author books (upper middle class, fairly well-educated characters, etc.). And I don’t think that it’s enough to make someone want to pick one up. There’s nothing new (the infamous “same but different”) about the way AA books were presented that would compel readers choose their books over other books, many of which by authors the mainstream audience is already familiar with.
Karen Scott
March 22
7:07 am
and the reason why people like rakes and dukes and whatnot is not because they’re relatable, but because they represent a certain archetype or elements of a romantic relationship that attract them.
How about the people who read contemps about billionaire sheiks and trophy wives? What are the archetypal elements there? What are the relatable elements? These books sell very well all over the world, why? Is it because readers stereotypically believe that Middle eastern men are more romantic than black men? In this current social climate?
The thing is, I’ve seen quite a few readers say that they can’t relate to AA books, and they then went on to talk about dialogue, dialect etc.
I’m currently reading a Nina Bangs (God I love that name) book that sucks arse because the Scottish brogue within that book has been mangled beyond belief. It doesn’t stop other readers from loving her stuff though.
I think part of the issue is also that a lot of white readers have only ever read romance with white people falling in love, and they are quite comfortable with that status quo, and see no reason to step out of their comfort zone.
These same people would have no problem going to see a Denzel Washington or Morgan Freeman film, which throws the issues into even more confusuion.
Why is it ok to go and watch a film with lots of black people in it, but romance books with AA characters get ignored?
So many questions, no satisfactory answers.
Anonymous
March 22
9:56 am
Hi
I have to agree with the “can’t relate” comments. As a reader and a black one at that, my preference in romance books is the I/R genre. Even there I have certain categories I wouldn’t touch. I’ve read one “white romance” by Nora Roberts and it made me gag (sorry) as it was ways tooo “breezy and mushy” for my taste (the heroine, ie). Saying that I’ve also read some I/Rs that made me gag and I thought: “Never again”. I relate easier to the female heroine being ALPHA or at least quite independent. I have yet to read a romance where both the hero and heroine is black. Let me explain why: It’s really about preference. I want my heroine to reflect some attributes I possess and the hero my preference in men.
I take to heart what Cece said about being pigeon-holed. It’s the way I’ve always lived my life and have made the best of experiences because of this. No baggage. I naturally bring this attitude to my romance reading list and it’s only there I refuse to be swayed as I see these reads as “escapist” material. Now my general fiction reading list……there my preferences or interests are ways broad to encompass all races, thoughts, cultures etc…….
Just a reader
Chandra
Angelle Trieste
March 22
11:27 am
Karen,
Most likely the appeal of sheiks, CEOs and trophy wives is the Cinderella / Beauty & the Beast (inner beast most of times since they tend to be good looking outside, but have very outdated ideas about gender roles or are emotionally scarred) fantasy. How many women worry about money or wished that she would be the one to tame that one man who everyone thought couldn’t be tamed — and to be the only one? (Those sheiks have harems and stuff and they give up all those chicks for the heroine — that’s some powerful fantasy there) I don’t think it has anything to do with people thinking that middle eastern men are sexier or whatever than black men. And obviously this fantasy works for a lot of women because H/S makes a lot of money publishing rich alpha hero books.
As for Nina Bangs I’ve never read her, so I can’t comment on her dialogue or stories.
I think that many readers are into reading books that they consider comfort reads — the kind they read to relax and chill. And they go for books written by authors they know or authors on the NYT list (or other lists) or authors their local booksellers recommended. I read a lot of new-to-me authors now for market research, but before I started writing, my reading was limited to HP, SD, SIM, and authors such as Nora, Linda Howard, SEP, Crusie, and classics like Sherlock Holmes or Austen, etc.
As for people watching films with black people, but not romance novels, I don’t know. But do black actors make mostly romantic movies or action / comedy? The last five movies / DVDs I’ve watched with a lot of black people or a black lead character were action (2 of them), urban fantasy, comedy and legal thriller. Maybe I’m missing something since I live in Japan right now and not all American movies get here, but something to think about.
Dalia
March 22
11:41 am
Re: The Shelving Issue
In terms of who is ‘responsible’, it looks to me like a combination of publisher and bookseller.
I don’t think we can say that AA readers are ‘responsible’ for the separate shelving because though there are those who like it as it is, they also *met* it as it is. I don’t think (but please correct me) that AA romance used to be shelved together with all romance and then moved. (? Anybody who knows?)
I used to think it was more publisher than bookseller but becauser there are in fact bookstores who shelve all romance together, I have to think the bookseller must take most of the ‘responsibility’ for their own shelving practices.
A publisher may market a book towards a certain audience yes, but the bookstore can look on the spine, see ‘romance’ and shelve accordingly, marketing notwithstanding.
Re: individual action
I think you’re only ‘pigeon-holed’ as far as you let yourself be – to a certain extent. Let’s say I’m a black romance author (and I also write black characters). I want my books shelved in the general romance section but they’ve always been shelved in AA. I’m pigeon-holed.
I speak to my local bookseller and s/he dis/agrees to move my books over to general romance or perhaps have a double-shelving experiment.
I write the corporate arm of the chains, asking them why they shelve as they do and requesting they shelve by genre and not race.
I get together with other writer or industry friends to make these same inquiries. I speak with my publisher about it, most people are as ignorant as I am about the ‘whys and wherefores’ and the ‘who’s responsibles’. It just ‘is’.
It’s taking some time for anything much to change. I go on vacation and in the local bookstore there, my books are tucked firmly in the AA section. I ask that bookseller why. He says they sell better there. AA readers don’t even go over to the general romance section. If he moved my book the AA readers won’t find it and the non-AA readers won’t read it. He won’t make a sale. He’s a businessman, an independent no less. He’s gotta eat. It’s all about the profit.
I think you could say this black author has been very proactive both in terms of trying to understand the reasons behind the practice and in trying to change it. But she’s still pigeon-holed.
Teddy Pig
March 22
12:16 pm
No idea Karen,
But… I am attempting to help a couple of M/M writers try and get into the Gay book stores.
If I figure out how to make that happen I’ll let you know.
Kat O+
March 22
1:47 pm
I’d be interested to know what kinds of books are being returned by readers because they have AA characters. I wonder if it happens equally across subgenres or just a few. I’d personally find it odd that a reader would return, say, a paranormal because one of the characters wasn’t white. I mean, they’re not even always human! I guess what I’m suggesting is that if shelving were no longer an issue, there might be subgenres where the playing field is more even. And in those subgenres, AA authors/stories with AA characters can compete with their peers based on the quality of their writing, which is as it should be. As for the other subgenres, well, one would hope that once AA characters are more “mainstream” then most readers will gradually stop feeling like those novels are substantially different. Either that or they’re published under different imprints to make it easier for readers to distinguish them–but at least they’ll still be shelved where the majority of romance readers can see, try and buy them.
BTW, am enjoying the discussions, Karen.
rozlips
March 22
2:09 pm
Kat O+. As I understand it the books that were returned were regular romances. I don’t think my publisher does a lot (or any) paranormals. I don’t know as I don’t generally read them. But as I understood it they were simply romances with a black man and a black woman.
Dalia, black romances have always been in a separate section in the bookstore, at least in any of the bookstores I frequented. Certainly Wal-Mart, the 800 pound gorilla, has always had a Negro section.
Angelie, you slay me. Though I must say your apologia does stray from the typical, so at least you’re creative. Now whites don’t read black romances because they’re not different enough. 180 degree turn from whites don’t read our books because we’re too different from them. I guess this one is more creative than, ‘those blacks aren’t working hard enough to promote their books.’ That’s an oldie but a goody. I can always rely on you to blame us for the supremacist mindset. Please do keep them coming. I’m amazed by your creativity.
Seressia
March 22
2:26 pm
A good way to start would be to go buy the top picks that RT has for AA romances. Do a search on Amazon for multiculutral romance and go with the ones with the highest starred reviews. Check out the AA books that are up for RT Reviewer’s Choice awards.
Amie Stuart
March 22
2:32 pm
Thanks to everyone for the positive feedback on my post.
RE bookstores–for what it’s worth my local waldens shelves all black authored romances together smack dab in the middle of the general fiction section (on the other side of that shelf is the ER books), and they prominently display some up front with the new/hot reads. This seems to be the same for both my local Waldens. BN shelves the black authored romances with all the other romances. I’m guessing they have another seperate section for general BA fiction but I don’t remember.
I’m guessing here but obviously not only does it vary by chain, it seems to vary based on what part of the country you’re in?!
(FWIW Target doesn’t separate–Zane is right next the Gossip Girls *ggg*)
Amie who is also Cece
Seressia
March 22
2:34 pm
Okay, now I’m confused.
AA romances aren’t read because people “can’t relate.” Then they aren’t read because people “don’t see anything different” in them. Or they’re all contemporary, college educated business people.
Not to be antagonistic, but how many have you read? AA romances run the gamut as does regular romances. Brenda Jackson had Delany’s Desert Sheikh. Monica Jackson has paranormals, as do Gwyneth Bolton and myself (werewolf and Djinn as main characters in mine). I have bi-racial characters in my last two contemporaries. Three Wishes is up for an RT Reviewer’s Choice award. ePublishing has made the selections in AA romance even more diversified.
I did get a laugh when Angelle said she couldn’t comment on Nina Bangs’ use or mangling of Scots brogues, yet comments away on the sameness of AA romances. Sorry, that was just funny.
rozlips
March 22
2:47 pm
Glad to have you back Seressia. How was RSJ? I’ll be there next year even if I have to sell a kidney. I desperately need to press the flesh with my readers.
Yeah, Angelie’s theories are amazing. I’d love to know how blacks are supposed to write books that are enough like whites not to frighten them off, but different enough to intrigue them. Far as I know, only white writers get bestsellers when they incorporate a ‘gangsta’ persona. And then, only when the characters are white. As with everything else, when blacks do it, whites are frightened away and whatever it is becomes ‘ghetto.’ Ghetto is great, as long as it has white skin, then it becomes hip and cutting edge. Yeah, I definitely need to hurl.
TheVixenne
March 22
5:24 pm
Angelle trieste wrote: “I think that the problem is that many black authors have presented their books as being similar to those white author books (upper middle class, fairly well-educated characters, etc.). And I don’t think that it’s enough to make someone want to pick one up. There’s nothing new (the infamous “same but different”) about the way AA books were presented that would compel readers choose their books over other books, many of which by authors the mainstream audience is already familiar with.”
The Vixenne says: With all due respect, that my dear is a load of horse manure. What I think you fail to realize here is that we have AA authors in EVERY genre: romance, horror, science-fiction/fantasy, etc. and yet it it the romance genre which seems to be the most recalcitrant when it comes to getting non-black readers to take their imaginations elsewhere. I hate to say it, but for most of these people if the characters are not blonde-haired and blue-eyed, they simply WILL NOT READ THEM.
We can hash over archetypes and comfort zones ad nauseum but the truth is that these women simply have not become enlightened to the fact that love is universal. And frankly I want to know why? I don’t have a problem so why should anyone else?
Maybe I’m just smarter…and cooler
TheVixenne
March 22
6:01 pm
I’m certainly not trying to single anyone out here, but the fact of the matter is, I’m positively FRUSTRATED as a writer, reader and now an editor.
I’m frustrated because it seems that AA romance authors have to prove themselves over and over again that they have something to say and that they’re good at saying it. As an editor, I’ve come across a lot of awesome manuscripts with incredible stories that ALL women can relate to on some level, and yet I’m being told over and over that the color of the author or the color of the characters is far more the determining factor than the fact that the characters are addressing universal truths. Sorry ladies, that’s a crock and we all know it.
Goddess knows how many contemporaries Nora Roberts and Danielle Steele have written and yet they’re always on the NY Times bestsellers lists. And as much as I used to enjoy Nora, it seems lately that she’s run stark out of ideas and that she’s reaching back for things she’s already done–and speaking as a reader, I need to be constantly blown away by something fresh and different (or at least another way of seeing the same plot).
Frankly, I would appreciate just one honest poster who simply admits that they do not read AA romances because they’ve been brainwashed into believing that black people falling in love is different from that of white people falling in love. I would appreciate one honest poster who admits they’ve been reluctant to read AA romances because they feel unwelcome in that section of the store. I do not appreciate endless waxing poetic on archetypes and comfort zones and all that other tommyrot that obscures the real issue.
In the immortal words of Han Solo (a white male mercenary whom I will *never* meet and have little “in common” with) “I prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around.”
Sara Dennis
March 22
7:30 pm
People have admitted that they feel like having AA romance shelved in the AA section of a store makes them feel like the books are “not for them” and thus they don’t go.
Several people on this site have said that the discussion going on has made them determined to find the participating author’s books or pointed out factors they hadn’t considered before.
I’m not sure that proclaiming yourself “smarter and cooler” than people who don’t read AA romance for whatever reason is going to win anyone over.
I say, let’s cheer for those who said they were going to take a chance on an author they haven’t tried before. Positive reinforcement, right? 🙂
Laura Vivanco
March 22
8:28 pm
Most likely the appeal of sheiks, CEOs and trophy wives is the Cinderella / Beauty & the Beast (inner beast most of times since they tend to be good looking outside, but have very outdated ideas about gender roles or are emotionally scarred) fantasy. […] the reason why people like rakes and dukes and whatnot is not because they’re relatable, but because they represent a certain archetype or elements of a romantic relationship that attract them.
So you think if AA/black authors wrote romance versions of Othello that might lure in the white readers? He certainly has the jealous traits that a lot of the sheiks and Greek tycoons display. Obviously the sad ending would have to go.
I’ll agree that a Regency Duke is not going to be black (unless someone’s writing alternative history), but you can have black vampires, cowboys, CEOs, marines and lots of the other traditional romance occupations for heroes.
And they go for books written by authors they know or authors on the NYT list (or other lists) or authors their local booksellers recommended.
OK, but new authors do hit the NYT list every so often, so some readers must be trying new authors. So the question is, where to they find out about them? If they use reviews, is it the case that black authors aren’t having their works reviewed in the places where the white readers look for reviews? And if, as you say, the local booksellers have an important role to play, why aren’t they recommending AA romances to more readers?
TheVixenne
March 22
9:10 pm
Sara Dennis wrote: “I’m not sure that proclaiming yourself “smarter and cooler” than people who don’t read AA romance for whatever reason is going to win anyone over.”
Win ’em over? Been there, tried that, doesn’t work. Know why it doesn’t work? Because the endless stream of lame excuses will continue and nothing will change. The way I see it, only smart and cool people don’t have issues with small-minded and ill-formed stereotypes when they choose books. They choose books because:
1) They like and/or know the author
2) The cover’s hot (I’ve got to say that fantasy books tend to have the best covers–see Thomas Canty, Kinuko Craft and Jody Lee for prime examples)
3) The back blurb is intriguing
4) Recommendations from friends/family/booksellers/reviewers/blogs/etc. (Harriet Klausner doesn’t count)
5) The characters/situations/settings seem interesting
6) They’re looking for something new
As a lifetime reader, those are my reasons for picking books and I think they’re damn good ones. I don’t have any codicils (okay, I’m kinda done with the whole vampire brotherhood/clan thing because of having played Vampire the Masquerade for a long time–not to mention vamps are literally starting to have the un-life sucked out of them but that’s just me), and I certainly don’t use the race of the writer or the characters to influence whether or not I’m going to read something.
So in a nutshgell, yes, that does make me smarter and cooler. Go figure.
sallahdog
March 22
9:32 pm
Sorry, work has been kicking me to the curb lately, I am reading but probably way behind…
I think for me, I rarely read straight romances anymore (I am changing my tastes again, so that will probably change, I am always open to new authors)… for myself, it was simply a matter of knowing the books were there.. I generally read paranormals and like mysteries. I found out through these conversations that a few of my fav authors ARE black (LA Banks, Lori Handeland, as I have said before, I try NOT to find out what my fave authors look like)…
Personally, I hate the gangstra speak of JR Wards books, and found the last one so freaking irritating that I had a hard time finishing it.. I went back and read the first book, and it does seem to have gotten progressively worse… If it keeps up, JR lost me as a reader.
I could understand, and possibly wade through it, if it WAS about urban black gangsters, but damn… these are supposed to be hundreds of years old Vampires… yeah, right…
Nina Bangs does suck arse (at least in my opinion)… I have this argument all the time with my sister who loves her. My sister is WRONG…
roz said
. I’d love to know how blacks are supposed to write books that are enough like whites not to frighten them off, but different enough to intrigue them.
that my dear, is a conundrum and completely bullshit excuse for not reading books , IMO… An author can only write what they do well, and hopefully there are enough people who will give the book a chance… I think the worst thing an author can do is write a book that their heart isnt in… I see it a lot right now with paranormals (and it has seriously put a dent in my love of that genre)…
roz said
Far as I know, only white writers get bestsellers when they incorporate a ‘gangsta’ persona. And then, only when the characters are white. As with everything else, when blacks do it, whites are frightened away and whatever it is becomes ‘ghetto.’ Ghetto is great, as long as it has white skin, then it becomes hip and cutting edge. Yeah, I definitely need to hurl.
I am not nor have ever really been around “ghetto”… I just find JR Wards books to be stupid in their language choice… Is this really ‘ghetto’ talk? Or is it just some gals “idea” of what ghetto is supposed to sound like…
rozlips
March 22
10:12 pm
I can’t really say as to J.R. Ward’s books, as I haven’t read any. I was only speaking in general terms. In this culture, things that are culturally black only become acceptable when a white person does them. ‘Bo Derek braids’ comes to mind. (Wow, I typed that without hurling.) The commodification of hip-hop is another. Everything from dance, to music to style of dress suddenly becomes chic and hip when a white person does it. Even if black people have been doing it for generations. Or in the case of braids, millenia. That type of cultural ‘consumption of the other’ is very popular, and is yet another harbinger of a supremacist culture.
TheVixenne
March 22
10:18 pm
This is like the zillionth time I’ve heard JR Ward’s books mentioned, especially about the whole “gangsta-speak” thing and I’ve got a copy of the first book and if she’s pulling that kind of crap, it looks like I won’t be going near it–not to mention the whole alpha male tamed by gentle (wimpy) female thing is so yesterday (just me though). For the life of me I don’t remember why I even bought it (oh wait, recommendations from a good friend – reason #4).
I guess one way to look at it is by making the vampires typically (and rather boringly) WASPy but having them speak ebonics was a way to not have her head handed to her on the platter of PC-ness had she made them black talking that way. Which could happen, in spite of the glaring fact that most black people in general speak the Queen’s english very well (I know, I know, the Barack Obama syndrome).
I’m with Roz though when she said: “As with everything else, when blacks do it, whites are frightened away and whatever it is becomes ‘ghetto.’ Ghetto is great, as long as it has white skin, then it becomes hip and cutting edge.” and history bears this out–American culture past and present owes a great deal of its vitality to black people, especially in the arts. There’d be no rock n’ roll without the blues and jazz and we all remember The Cotton Club and other famous speakeasies. White kids in the 50’s wanted rock n’ roll and J. Edgar Hoover warned suburbia about the dangers of “jungle music”. Today, one can hear even professionals using slang such as “down-low” and “bling” over their button-down Pendletons.
Not that I have a problem with this because hell, I’m a metalhead and I call practically everyone “dude”. However in this case, it’s a little weird considering that someone said they couldn’t relate to “ghetto” characters–I guess white vampires rolling in Escalades don’t count though.
rozlips
March 22
10:30 pm
I’m okay with it too Vixenne, as long as I never have to hear Dick Button say ‘fashizzle’ again. When Dick Button starts talking ‘Snoop speak’ its really time to turn off figure skating.
TheVixenne
March 22
10:42 pm
It’s funny but I don’t see it as “cultural consumption” as much as I see it as an indicator that in spite of supremacist rhetoric in which blacks and other groups are placed in positions of inferiority, there’s got to be some serious issues of jealousy because of what the various groups have brought to the table. I mean, why emulate what you feel is beneath you? Why get a tan if being “dark” is a symbol of a lesser social status? If black women’s looks are so undesirable, then why the collagen injections for fuller lips and the fanny girdles for a rounder butt. Even the country-western boys talk about a ‘honky-tonk bedonkedonk’ (no, I don’t think it’s spelled that way).
And let’s face it, white people may have written ‘Amazing Grace’, but only Aretha can sing the living soul out of it. Took Jimi to kick the Star Spangled Banner up a few decibels. Besides, there was nothing funnier that hearing about how much Bo Derek whined while she was having the cornrows done because she was tenderheaded.
Like I said, they’ll just keep giving excuses and I’ll just keep shooting holes in them.
Karen Scott
March 22
10:53 pm
there’s got to be some serious issues of jealousy because of what the various groups have brought to the table.
Are we having a pissing contest here?
Besides, there was nothing funnier that hearing about how much Bo Derek whined while she was having the cornrows done because she was tenderheaded.
Oh not funny at all. I have a verrry low threshold for pain, and I always used to howl when I used to have my hair braided. I still can’t stand the pain to my head now.
TheVixenne
March 22
11:05 pm
“Are we having a pissing contest here?”
You betcha! And I haven’t lost one yet (lol). Seriously though, every group has brought something special to the table, but it just seems there’s this strange hostility/fascination with black people–even though we’re not this monolithic entity as way too many people believe.
And of course it’s funny about Bo Derek. It’s especially funny when so many white women went to their fancy stylists and had their hair cornrowed. Talk about better than botox? Tee hee. Still, I could care less one way or the other. I’m around asian guys with dreds so nothing fazes me anyways.
rozlips
March 22
11:16 pm
Hey, pissing contests are erotic to some people, or so I’ve been told. *wink* I’m sure its only a matter of time before they make into romantica/erotica. Of course, they’re not sanctioned by the RWA.
The Vixenne
March 22
11:50 pm
There is one. Morgan Hawke’s Victorious Star: Interstellar Service and Discipline.
Oh wait, let me check this against my handy-dandy “Meter of Commonality” as to why I picked up, enjoyed and consider this book a keeper:
1) I like Morgan Hawke (check)
2) I like grande space operas featuring sentient ships that talk (check)
3) I loved the cover on the trade paperback edition (long-haired guy with a sword…double check)
4) I like well-written BDSM-themed stories that don’t rely on the mechanics
5) I like books featuring triads–two guys and one very lucky woman (and the guys are well-endowed and always know how and what to do to the heroine…check)
6) I like gutsy heroines who like sex (check)
Racially-wise we had two Caucasian homo sapiens (though slightly augmentted) and one Skaldi (think of a bunch of hottie space-going and feral Haldirs and that’s what they look like). Sorry not a single negro in the bunch. Didn’t seem to faze me though.
Shelly
March 23
8:52 pm
I work for a chain bookstore and our shelving is dictated by corporate. They decide what categories are displayed in the store and when they input a books information into our system they assign it it’s shelving designation.
One very weird thing I am finding is that a lot of erotica is being designated “African American” and the books are neither written by AA authors or about AA characters. We are totally stumped as to why this is happening.
AA romance for me is no more hit or miss than other romance. When I reviewed for a website I do have to say that a large percentage of the AA books I was given to review weren’t the best written stories but some of them were pretty darned good. I don’t actively seek to never read AA romance again but I tend to read AA romances that have been recommended to me and not from me browsing.