Quickie Survey – Are You An EPIC ( Electronically Published Internet Connection) Member?
Monday, September 3, 2007Posted in: EPIC, What Do They Do For You?
If so, can you answer some questions?
Why did you join?
Which of the services that they provide, have you utilised?
What do you think of the services they provide?
What could they do to improve things?
What have they done for you lately?
You can either e-mail me on hairylemony @ gmail .com or just post your answers on here, although I expect the positives will post on here, and any ‘other’ comments will come via the e-mail. ‘Tis the nature of the beast I’m afraid.
If I get a significant number of responses, I’ll post them, if not, I’ll bin ’em.
By the way, this isn’t about taking the piss out of EPIC or showing them up, (seriously, it’s not) this is just because I’m nosy as hell.
shiloh walker
September 3
6:29 pm
I was. Not now. I mentioned why briefly on the DA blog but I’ll repeat here.
It wasn’t really a bad organization, it just didn’t offer me anything. It’s definitely more like a support group. Yeah, they do promote epublishing, but I’d need more than that to keep me involved.
And frankly, a lot of the ‘support’ type of stuff on the lists irritated me. Some people were more interested in bellyaching than writing. Some people were more interested in making themselves look important than working. If I need to gripe, I’ll do it in private with friends and know it alls annoy me.
I know some authors swear by it and hey, that’s fine. It just didn’t offer me anything but a tax write off.
Ann Aguirre
September 3
6:50 pm
Ditto what Shiloh said.
Alessia Brio
September 3
7:12 pm
Yes, I’m a member. Joined in early 2006 — so I’ve renewed once already.
Why did you join?
More to give than to take, really. I believe in epublishing and want to help promote it, both for myself and others.
Which of the services that they provide, have you utilised?
I’ve attended EPICon and taken a great deal away from the presentations/classes.
I’ve also learned a great deal from the variety of expertise shared on the lists.
What do you think of the services they provide?
No complaints.
What could they do to improve things?
As the organization grows, I’d like to see it provide more advanced services to its membership (like a union, of sorts). Health insurance for members who don’t want to have to hold a “day job” just to have benefits, for example.
What have they done for you lately?
Same thing it’s done for me from the beginning — offered support and encouragement & helped to validate/promote the epublishing industry. (As I mentioned on Dear Author, we e-authors have a helluva bias to overcome. EPIC, I believe, is the organization that will be instrumental in dispelling those myths.)
Anonymous Former EPIC Member
September 3
7:25 pm
I left EPIC for the same reasons Shiloh mentioned. If others enjoy their membership there, more power to ’em. I just found it to be an organization that didn’t benefit me or my career in any way.
But a heads-up here, Karen – don’t you know to post anything that could even remotely be taken as a shot at EPIC might invite a heated, long-winded, blog-stifling (and did I mention long-winded?) reply from a certain prominent member of EPIC? Not mentioning names here, but over the years, this individual has made it evident that on most topics she gets in on she can’t make a point briefly and just go on.
Barbara Sheridan
September 3
7:42 pm
I’ll jump on Shiloh’s band wagon too. I was a member for a year and joined mainly to get the discount on entering the EPPIE. I did attend EPICcon 2006 mainly because it was held in my pal Anne Cain’s town.
As support groups go it’s not bad but the one thing I heard at EPIC con that really bugged me was the acceptance of a certain e-publisher’s fee to have a book in print.
The pub representative said “It’s not our fee it’s the printer’s fee.” The panel MC accepted this calmly and made it seem all well and good and perfectly acceptable.
No. Sorry. Not buying it.
No other solid, well respected publishers slide this fee by if they have them. They eat it as a cost of doing business.
I think all pubs should or not offer a print option. Buy e-rights only and give the author the option of doing print themselves the LuLu or whatever route after a certain amount of time. Six months to a year after e-release seems fair.
And don’t get me started on the “It’s your book we (e-publishers) can’t file copyright paperwork for you” line.
I doubt it’s only something the likes of a Berkley/Jove can do because way back in ’99 I had an e-book release and the now defunct publisher filed for me when I negotiated it into the contract. And yes, I have the certificate to prove it. ^_^
For the love of Buddha people, if it’s too expensive then flat out say so. What’s so hard about saying Due to the number of releases yearly it isn’t economically feasible to file copyright for all our authors at this time. We suggest you do it yourself should you desire.
That said, I may consider rejoining EPIC at some point. Hell, I might even go all out and rejoin RWA.
Sarah McCarty
September 3
9:10 pm
Barbara-
The fee charging to print pub- I can see this if the publisher was not going to sell the print books themselves, if it truly was for the convenience of the authors as it was explained at least once. But after the author pays to put the book in print, the publisher sells the book on their website, reaping the benefit at the author’s expense!
As far as I’ve been able to determine, the authors are never reimbursed for that upfront fee the publisher charges the author *shaking head* The practice is so wrong on so many levels I’m always shocked when authors agree to it and even defend it.
Emily Veinglory
September 3
10:03 pm
Why did you join?
I was going to EPICon and you can basically join attend for the same amount as attending alone.
Which of the services that they provide, have you utilised?
The Con, yahoogroups, that’s about it.
What do you think of the services they provide?
I don’t really see it as a service organisation. I join to support their advocacy for e-publishing.
What could they do to improve things?
Bring in someone with a communications or management background. Worry less about the Eppies or make them into something useful (i.e. something readers care about). Make sure people know more about what they do do…
What have they done for you lately?
EPICon was useful for meeting up with a lot of my publishers and peers and hearing the gossip about good and bad presses (e.g. it was clear Mardi Gras was doomed in March if you got writers together in a room with chocolate martinis). The yahoogroup periodically lets me know something very important. The emotional flare-ups are annoying but I don’t know many large groups that manage to avoid them.
p.s. I agree about the printing fee and shutting down of author discussions about issues of that nature. It might help if there was an ‘authors only’ EPIC list.
Lynne Connolly
September 3
10:57 pm
>Why did you join?
Because I wanted to enter 4 books in the EPPIEs. That would have cost me an extra 10 dollars per book if I wasn’t a member. Cost of entry was 30 dollars.
>Which of the services that they provide, have you utilised?
The boilerplate contract and the loops are extremely active. Ask and there is usually someone there who can answer.
>What do you think of the services they provide?
Much better value than the RWA (which I was also considering at the time). About $100 plus cheaper.
>What could they do to improve things?
Move with the times, keep up with current trends (also much better than the RWA)
I’d like to see a regular newsletter.
>What have they done for you lately?
Provided advice about the Triskelion bankruptcy. And general support and bolstering.
In the US, nobody can give “legal advice” as such, or they could lose their licenses. You can only give legal advice if you’re licensed by the state where the case is taking place. So you can only ask for, and get, general advice, and EPIC has been very helpful and supportive.
Anonymous
September 4
12:32 am
I quit several years ago. Certainly the idea behind the organization is great, but they never seem to do anything to further the e-book industry other than spend all the dues money to pay for their yearly awards. Additionally, on the various email lists, most of the time they seem to be arguing over silly things, and it’s usually one or two “know it all” types that cause the ruckus…”The sky is blue, right?” “No, it’s purple, since I’m a better and more knowledgable publisher than you!!!” That sort of thing turned me off instantly. If it wasn’t for those few people who live to argue with everyone about everything, it might have been a good group, but the tension always runs high over there and nothing gets accomplished because of these “superstars” who want to be in charge. Too sad.
sybil
September 4
4:48 am
tsk tsk karen be a good lil bunny and cough up the dough and than the secret of EPIE can be yours too all for the low low price of 29.99
The more they talk it is pretty clear why they can’t be arsed to try and keep con artist out of epublishing.
Sarah McCarty
September 4
1:36 pm
Sybil,
all chuckling at the parody aside, after studying up, I don’t think it’s Epic’s mission to keep the con artists out. They don’t advocate so much as they exist to make sure people understand that epublishing exists.
Which means, if I’ve got it right, the organization had a limited life span based on a limited goal. Unless they revamp their mission, they have been rendered obsolete by the developing market place. With all the major houses epubbing and the struggle for the perfect device heating up, the only thing keeping epub from becoming a larger standard market is the passage of time.
Darlene
September 4
2:02 pm
I’m an EPIC member, so I’ll take your survey:
Why did you join?
I think it’s important to support organizations that are related to my publishing needs, and at the time, EPIC was the only organization set up to serve the needs of epublished authors
Which of the services that they provide, have you utilised?
I’ve entered the Eppie contests and been a judge for them. I also find their loops helpful in discussing current trends in epub technology, and what’s happening with various epublishers.
What do you think of the services they provide? So far, I’ve been satisfied with their services.
What could they do to improve things? I would like to see them do more to establish themselves as a representative organization for epublishers and authors, but I believe that they are growing in this direction.
What have they done for you lately? I won two Eppie awards in 2007 for my historical romances. I attended the Epicon convention where there were valuable sessions on the craft and business of epublishing. They also organized a booksigning for those of us who have print editions of our novels, and they had a “store” at the convention where you could sell your CDs or books and give away promotional material.
Darlene
Desiree Erotique
September 4
2:54 pm
K: Why did you join?
A: I was referred to EPIC some years ago by a friend who belonged.
K: Which of the services that they provide, have you utilised?
A: I belonged to their yahoogroup loop and bookmarked the pages about boilerplate contract
K: What do you think of the services they provide?
A: The loop was helpful in the beginning; many of the discussions helped me to better understand the public image of electronic publishing -the negatives and positives. The advice from some members was very helpful in understanding the finer points about making submissions, marketing and the positive promotion of one’s book.
K: What could they do to improve things?
A: I can’t be sure as to how the internal things are now managed there, but when I left it was due to a number of things. There was then a general fixation on the EPPIE Awards. Although I entered a few titles over the time I was a member, this wasn’t the only reason I joined, and it seemed that what positive steps EPIC took for bolstering the public image of electronic publishing were being
undermined by the fixation on awards.
Another thing I didn’t care for was the habit (when I was a member, anyway) of announcing the names of members with due fees to the general loop. There was an occasion when I’d just mailed in my fee but it apparently didn’t arrive in time to avoid the announcement. This happened to me as well as with several other people. I felt the practice embarrassed members in good standing and was completely unnecessary.
The other issue that soured me about EPIC was a strong bias from the “pure romance” writers (as some of them called themselves) against the genres of erotica and erotic romance. It all seemed very clikish to me; and I didn’t care for many of the comments that some of the PR writers were putting out.
If the internal problems I saw and some others I have heard about from other ex-members have been dealt with then EPIC may be getting its act together. Having ventured over to the current site, I will say -from an outsider’s viewpoint- that it doesn’t appear they’ve done much in changing the public image that EPIC is all about awards.
K: What have they done for you lately?
A: Nothing, as it has been awhile since I decided to leave.
Anonymous
September 4
5:21 pm
Ah, let us hope they don’t take a leaf from the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writer’s Association and try to help with the piracy issue.
http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/
I’m beginning to think every writer’s group is batshit insane.
Marianne LaCroix
September 5
12:35 am
I just rejoined recently. They do usually have the latest market news and updates of what is going on in the epub world. I don’t chat on the loops, but I do read the digests. (I do that a lot all over, read but don’t post.)
They usually are on top of the piracy places and help in shutting them down.
I haven’t entered the EPPIES in years, but if you decide to enter, joining does give you a discount if you enter more than one title. I just entered one title this year.
It is cheaper than RWA and now has local online chapters (free). I like knowing there are other epubbed authors in my general area.
It is good for ebook market news and updates….which is why I joined.
Rosemary
September 5
1:15 pm
I’m another who echoes what Shiloh said.
I was actually a charter member way back when but dropped my membership during a periodic economy drive as I didn’t feel I was getting my money’s worth out of EPIC.
And I did get tired of the ‘RWA is being mean to us’ whines.
I have friends who are current members and really feel it’s a great support. It may well have changed from the early days.
Never did go to an Epicon.
Jennifer McK
September 7
12:44 am
I just joined this year.
Why did you join?
They were a writer’s organization that acknowledged my meager contribution to my genre. Plus, frankly, I was pissed at the RWA attitude towards authors that didn’t make boatloads of money and voted with my money and my feet.
Which of the services that they provide, have you utilised?
So far, only the groups and that minimally. I also got quite a bit from their articles on promotion and contracts. I’m considering the EPIC, but the representation of the organization at Dear Author has me rethinking that.
What do you think of the services they provide?
I like the idea that they have a conference for epublishing. Considering they are less than half the dues demanded by RWA, I didn’t expect them to have bells and whistles.
What could they do to improve things?
This will get me in trouble, but really consider their attitude toward others who are mainstays in epublishing. A defensive attitude in any business/organization, is NOT going to garner support.
What have they done for you lately?
They’ve acknowledged that I’m an author who has written books. RWA seems to be waffling on this question.
And I agree that writer’s organizations seem to be a little……strange.
Jennifer McK
September 7
12:45 am
I’m considering the EPIC,
I mean the EPPIES. Sorry.
sybil
September 7
4:47 am
They’ve acknowledged that I’m an author who has written books. RWA seems to be waffling on this question.
Did you need that acknowledgment in order for it to be true? Are people not writers until someone else tells them they are?
shiloh walker
September 7
11:20 am
Did you need that acknowledgment in order for it to be true? Are people not writers until someone else tells them they are?
It’s not so much acknowledgment sometimes as validation, Sybil. It can be an important thing for a lot of authors. Not so much for me, but I also have that problem where I’d rather not mess with people in general~well… unless I feel like socializing. 😉
I don’t see it as much now~ebooks authors are actually getting a lot more respect now than they were when I first started out.
Early on, I lost track of how many people I would talk to in the industry, they were helpful, friendly, interested in what I wrote…. and then they found out I was epubbed and the nose went up. They’d give me this little smirk and suddenly, I didn’t exist to them anymore. My mindset? Screw them. Especially once I was able to quit my day job and write full time.
But not everybody has the ‘screw them’ mindset. There’s nothing wrong with that, as long as they aren’t so thin-skinned it interferes with their writing. However, for them…the validation/acknowledgment/understanding is important.
Jennifer McK
September 7
2:11 pm
Did you need that acknowledgment in order for it to be true? Are people not writers until someone else tells them they are?
IMHO writers write. But authors are published. I took issue with RWA when I realized that I was considered “unpublished” by their standards. I know things are changing, but the attitude seems to be that unless you’re a “money maker” you’re not an “author”.
The tone of the discussion post RWA conference seemed to be condescending.
*shrugs* Frankly, the RWA didn’t seem to address the needs in the industry that I had. Their focus seems to be entirely on the way things have always been done.
I would be nice to be acknowledged by the organization that touts itself as “Romance Writers Of America”.