There’s A New E-Publisher In Town…
Sunday, November 25, 2007Posted in: Another erotic romance e-pub opens
Noble Publishing just opened its doors.
This is what it says on the submissions page:
“We are throwing down the gauntlet. We dare you to push the limits, stretch the boundaries, and send us your hottest, boldest stories.
A Noble erotic romance novel is…
*A passionate, gripping love story set within any sub-genre. Feel free to mix them up. If it’s a good story, we’ll want it.
*A graphic, honest portrayal of human sexuality.
*Daring, risky, push-the-envelope hot. Our authors are free to explore any sexual fantasy, even those considered too risque for some of our competitors.
Noble authors are the creme de la creme. They write the hottest, most explicit sex scenes, while still maintaining the integrity of a thoroughly engrossing romantic plot.”
*A graphic, honest portrayal of human sexuality.
*Daring, risky, push-the-envelope hot. Our authors are free to explore any sexual fantasy, even those considered too risque for some of our competitors.
I wonder if this means they’ll be offering up Twincest stories too?
Normally I wouldn’t bother reporting the opening of a new e-pub, but I want some record of it, for when they eventually close, maybe two years from now.
Yeah, yeah, a little cynical I know, but we all know the score here don’t we?
Anyway, I do wish them luck in their endeavours, and hopefully they don’t implode like Trixy Lion Publishing et al. *g*
And remember potential authors out there, “Happy Writing! And remember…Think Kink!”
Nice.
Karen Scott
November 27
5:05 pm
Anything you can think of to write, someone out there is going to want to read it, no matter how awful you think it is.
I realise that, and accept it even, but I sure don’t want it being labelled a romance.
A guy who has little girl fantasies does not belong on the pages of a romance, he belongs in jail.
As far as I’m concerned twincest, incest, and books where the characters get off on peeing on each other is fetish, and at no point should ever be considered romantic. Perverted maybe, but certainly not romantic.
As for the Menage, BDSM argument, I think that most people accept that there can be romantic elements to these stories, because they involve consenting adults, who aren’t necessarily related to each other.
Brothers fucking their brothers, fathers fucking their daughters, and the likes, is morally wrong, as far as I’m concerned, and the thought that somebody would try to romanticise it, is enough to make me feel ill.
Karen Scott
November 27
6:40 pm
I love me some twincest (sorry, but I do!),
Ally, can I ask what in particular you like about Twincest books?
Ally Blue
November 27
7:20 pm
Karen, all points taken and completely understood. Many of the things you mentioned make ME feel ill as well. A parent/child thing, you know, that’s an issue of abuse to me, at least as it pertains to REAL parent and child rather than role-playing. But other than that, two or more CONSENTING ADULTS (and those are absolute criteria for me) may do whatever they please, in real life or fiction.
I’m probably gonna get in trouble for this one, but morality is not an absolute. We all think OUR morality is The Truth (me included), but it isn’t. I know people who absolutely believe homosexuality is wrong, immoral, a heinous sin, etc etc. I absolutely believe it’s as normal and natural as heterosexuality. So who’s right?
Well, I am, of course *g*
But you see my point. Those people and I will always disagree, and each of us will believe ourselves to be in the right until the day we die.
Is twincest/BDSM/insert-your-kink-here romance? IMHO, and according to how most people define romance, it depends on two things: the developing relationship, and the ending. If the two (or more) people fall in love and get their happy ending, that’s a romance, according to most accepted definitions of the word. If they happen to like (for example) golden showers, ew, but hey, whatever floats their boat. I don’t think it makes them any less in love, or their HEA any less happy.
What do I like about twincest? You know, I had to think really hard about that. What IS it, exactly, that turns my crank when I read about twin men in love? Here’s my theory. I’m not a terribly open person. I have lots of friends who I love, sure, but there is not one single person in this world who knows everything about me. But that’s exactly the sort of relationship I’ve always longed to have. I think what I like about twins in love is the fact that there is such a close bond there. Twins often have a very emotionally intimate relationship in the first place. Extending that to romantic love and sex makes it seem, to me, that the relationship becomes something of my own personal ideal: one person who knows, accepts and loves every single thing about you. No hiding, no secrets. I know that can happen (theoretically) outside of a sibling relationship, but who else can really know you since before birth?
Maybe I’m full of shit LOL. But that’s my working theory. Many thanks for the fascinating discussion 😀
Karen Scott
November 27
7:40 pm
No hiding, no secrets. I know that can happen (theoretically) outside of a sibling relationship, but who else can really know you since before birth?
Your mother?
Seriously, what you describe is the perfect relationship, but why does sex have to come into it? And I guess that my next question has to be, if you had a twin, would you consider having sex with him/her?
Ally Blue
November 27
7:54 pm
Seriously, what you describe is the perfect relationship, but why does sex have to come into it?
For many people, sex is the ultimate act of trust and vulnerability. For me, I think that’s the clincher. I don’t pretend to speak for anyone else, of course, that’s just my own viewpoint.
And I guess that my next question has to be, if you had a twin, would you consider having sex with him/her?
Oh GAWD no. No no no no no. NO. No way.
BUT, again, I can’t speak for everyone. The sex drive is one of the most powerful urges we humans have, and it is decidedly amoral. It still operates more or less on instinct, and hasn’t caught up with the restrictions society has put on who we are and are not allowed to be attracted to.
Hm, so maybe I should say, I don’t THINK I’d want to get horizontal with my twin, if I had one. I sure don’t have those feelings for my non-twin sister.
Your mother?
My mother’s dead. I think everyone would appreciate not getting into THAT kink O_O
**shudders**
Jill Noelle Noble
November 27
8:05 pm
I know people who absolutely believe homosexuality is wrong, immoral, a heinous sin, etc etc.
And I’ll take that one step further, and say some of those people also believe homosexuality is harmful to other people, destroys families, endangers children, corrupts society, etc. They think homosexuals should be locked up in psyche wards or worse.
A guy who has little girl fantasies does not belong on the pages of a romance, he belongs in jail.
I’m curious…if you change the pronouns in this statement from male to female, do you feel the same way? Does she belong in jail? Or does she need psychiatric help? How about those women who – in every single poll I’ve seen – cite “rape” among their top 10 sexual fantasies?
Wow, now I truly believe that we women are the ones who perpetrate the abuse that so many children and women suffer through.
I agree with this statement, but not in this context. I’ve always been curious why women are so quick to attack other women when it comes to matters of sexuality and sexual behavior. I wonder how much harm we do when we judge them so harshly.
I’m really not surprised by the controversy this topic has generated. Even the “experts” disagree on where normal sexuality ends and perversion begins.
I’m sorry if I’ve offended some of you. I’m just not willing to demonize any normal, healthy woman for her fantasies or roleplaying within the confines of an adult, consentual relationship.
Karen Scott
November 27
8:13 pm
I’m curious…if you change the pronouns in this statement from male to female, do you feel the same way?
Hell, yes. Any adult who fantasizes about children is seriously disturbed, they go past psychological evaluation, and straight to jail, as far as I’m concerned.
Jill Noelle Noble
November 27
8:21 pm
Hell, yes. Any adult who fantasizes about children is seriously disturbed, they go past psychological evaluation, and straight to jail, as far as I’m concerned.
Okay, just to clarify…if she enjoys fantasizing she’s, say, 16, and she’s with an older man – say, 35 – she is seriously disturbed, needs psychiatric evaluation and put in jail? I just want to make sure I understand your thoughts on this.
azteclady
November 27
8:21 pm
The key words in Ms Noble’s last paragraph above, are “within the context of an adult, consensual relationship.”
At least, for me.
In the realm of fanfiction–specifically Harry Potter ff–twincest crops up quite often. In many cases the writing (plot, characterization, grammar, all the above) is so poor, there’s no excuse no matter what the main storyline. In other cases, a skillful writer gets everything right and manages to convey the anguish such a couple would feel.
Is it my cup of tea? No. No more than golden showers or f/f are. But it not being what I like doesn’t automatically make it disgusting, IMO.
Introduce children to any of those scenarios, though, and all bets are off for me.
Karen Scott
November 27
8:51 pm
Okay, just to clarify…if she enjoys fantasizing she’s, say, 16, and she’s with an older man – say, 35 – she is seriously disturbed, needs psychiatric evaluation and put in jail?
In England, 16 is the age of consent, so that’s not a good example, but if you mean if the female was for instance, 12 year old girl, then I’m sure you know that this changes the dynamics altogether. She’s a child, fantasizing about having sex with somebody old enough to be her father. I’d say that was a little bit worrying wouldn’t you?
In short, a twelve year old girl, or even a sixteen year old, fantasizing about having sex with a 35 year old man is a totally different proposition to a 35 year old man having fantasies about a twelve year old, and that distinction should be quite obvious IMO.
azteclady
November 27
8:58 pm
Out of curiosity–and definitely not speaking for Ms Noble–if we are talking about two people well into their thirties who fantasize about having a daddy/daughter relationship, is this immoral too?
Karen Scott
November 27
9:14 pm
Out of curiosity–and definitely not speaking for Ms Noble–if we are talking about two people well into their thirties who fantasize about having a daddy/daughter relationship, is this immoral too?
It depends on how far the role play goes. Is the ‘daughter’ of consenting age? If the ‘daughter is a twelve year old girl, then yep, still immoral. It suggests to me that this is a fantasy that works for the man, and I don’t ever want to accept that as ok.
If the ‘daughter’ is of consenting age, then it gets upgraded to a ‘that’s ‘just not my cuppa, and different strokes for different folks’ category.
I still don’t want to read about it in a romance though.
Jill Noelle Noble
November 27
9:14 pm
In short, a twelve year old girl, or even a sixteen year old, fantasizing about having sex with a 35 year old man is a totally different proposition to a 35 year old man having fantasies about a twelve year old, and that distinction should be quite obvious IMO.
Uh huh, it is obvious. Thank you for explaining.
I think this might bring me full circle. Since my main target audience is women, and I know for a fact some women have these types of fantasies, if I receive a submission that contains this kind of fantasy within the context of an adult, consentual relationship, and the author did a good job couching this all within a romantic relationship, and the story captures my attention and holds it…I’m going to buy it, and I’m going to publish it.
Jill Noelle Noble
November 27
10:41 pm
This kind of ties in to what we’ve been discussing here. 😉
Sort of…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071127/ap_en_ot/books_bad_sex
Karen Scott
November 27
10:51 pm
Ewwww…
Karen Scott
November 27
11:05 pm
By the way Jill, it may be just my computer, but the book covers on the homepage aren’t opening up. I can only see square boxes with a red cross in the corner.
Shiloh Walker
November 27
11:57 pm
It depends on how far the role play goes. Is the ‘daughter’ of consenting age? If the ‘daughter is a twelve year old girl, then yep, still immoral. It suggests to me that this is a fantasy that works for the man, and I don’t ever want to accept that as ok.
I think this is where I’m looking at it, too, although just in general anything themed DD wouldn’t appeal to me.
However, if we’re roleplaying and the woman ‘pretending’ to be a girl under… oh say…16, 17, 18… especially if she’s acting ‘childlike’… and the man is aroused by that, this bothers me. Because I would have to wonder, if he is turned on by a woman acting like a child… what about all the children, the 11, 12, 13 year old girl, or younger, that try to be adult? Will he be aroused by them? If there is a precocious girl in their future, would he be aroused by her?
It’s disturbing. To me, that he could be aroused by sexualizing a child, or a woman pretending to be one, this says nothing noble around the hero. All heroes, no matter how darkly they are drawn, have some noble quality to them. Something that makes them a hero. A man that can somehow sexualize a child doesn’t belong in ‘hero’ category.
Fae
November 28
12:13 am
I’ve simply always been of the mind that love is a good thing. If two or more people are adults and consenting, then there is nothing out of bounds for me. They can do whatever they please with each other and that does not make them any less in love.
As for incest…again, adults, consenting, I have no issue with it. Especially as it pertains to gay incest, being as most people’s biggest objection is the possible deformities if children were to occur. Can’t happen with family members of the same sex.
No one has any right to tell two grown adults who they can and cannot, should or should not love, nor what those two people should do in the privacy of their own bedroom/living room/BDSM club etc. I was married to a black man. Less than 30 years ago that would have been the height of an objectionable relationship and deemed a sin and a travesty and amoral. Those people were wrong. I think anyone who puts limits on love between two adults, in whatever capacity and whatever their kinks, is just as wrong.
Just my opinion, of course.
Karen Scott
November 28
12:27 am
I was married to a black man. Less than 30 years ago that would have been the height of an objectionable relationship and deemed a sin and a travesty and amoral.
Are you really comparing inter-racial relationships to incest?
Kayleigh Jamison
November 28
12:28 am
Kayleigh-
What’s your new book called and where is it published? I love f/f/m and want to check it out!
Thanks,
Jen
Hi Jen,
It’s available in ebook at ARe and as soon as they upload it, Fictionwise, and will be in print February 15th at all the usual places. Thanks for asking!
-Kayleigh
Fae
November 28
12:39 am
“Are you really comparing inter-racial relationships to incest?”
Not so long ago the great majority of the civilized world would have put it on the same level in terms of being immoral and disgusting and sinful.
We’ve changed since then. And we will continue to do so. Please do realize that I am talking about incest between adults, not anything involving anyone under the age of consent.
Fae
Shiloh Walker
November 28
12:49 am
Please do realize that I am talking about incest between adults, not anything involving anyone under the age of consent.
This is disturbing.
What I’d like to know is this… would you have similar thoughts if it was somebody you loved? I don’t know if you have a family, kids, etc, but say you were married, and you married and divorced a guy… but not before you had kids with him. Then you ex-husband and daughter, once she was 18, decided they wanted a such a relationship.
Would that bother you?
Fae
November 28
12:56 am
“What I’d like to know is this… would you have similar thoughts if it was somebody you loved? I don’t know if you have a family, kids, etc, but say you were married, and you married and divorced a guy… but not before you had kids with him. Then you ex-husband and daughter, once she was 18, decided they wanted a such a relationship.
Would that bother you?”
Indeed it would. However, just because something bothers me and I wouldn’t personally participate in it doesn’t mean it’s wrong for everyone in the whole world. That’d be just a bit egotistical of me, I think.
There’s quite a few things that bother me or that I find unappealing or simply don’t “get” as far as kinks and relationships go. But it’s not me it involves, so I don’t feel I have any say in what is and is not right for those people who are not me.
I can only say what is and is not right for me.
Karen Scott
November 28
12:57 am
Also, what if you had two children who were of consenting age, who decided to embark on a sexual relationship with each other?
What if your father started sleeping with your old-enough sister or brother?
Shiloh Walker
November 28
1:10 am
I wouldn’t personally participate in it doesn’t mean it’s wrong for everyone in the whole world.
I think I’m of the mind that some things should be wrong~some things are.
Incest is one of them.
No amount of people saying “Perhaps it’s wrong for you” is going to change how I see it.
With that said, I’m bowing out of this conversation. Frankly, it’s leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
azteclady
November 28
1:29 am
Fae said, “Indeed it would. However, just because something bothers me and I wouldn’t personally participate in it doesn’t mean it’s wrong for everyone in the whole world. That’d be just a bit egotistical of me, I think.
There’s quite a few things that bother me or that I find unappealing or simply don’t “get” as far as kinks and relationships go. But it’s not me it involves, so I don’t feel I have any say in what is and is not right for those people who are not me.
I can only say what is and is not right for me.”
Which reminds me of a quote by Thomas Jefferson:
“But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
Michelle
November 28
2:18 am
Re: incest I think it matters what context.
Say a man has sex with his over 18stepdaughter whom he has helped raise that would be sickening even though they aren’t genetically related. (Woody Allen anyone?)
However, if there were 2 siblings or half siblings that were raised apart and then met and fell in love that wouldn’t bother me.
I never liked the stories where hero raise ward like his child then marries her-yuck.
Annette
November 28
3:24 am
I’m just curious. What about incest that was historically legal/acceptable (e.g. ancient Egypt and Persia and the Old Testament races including the Israelites) or takes place in a science fiction/fantasy universe where it is part of the culture and physiologically viable? Or actual marriages in our own past between underage girls and mature men. Margaret Beaufort was married to Edmund Tudor and, at 13, bore him a son, the future Henry VII. And Isabella of France was 8 when she married twenty-something Richard II of England. Do these cross the line with regards to what you deem permissible in a romance? Does context not count as well?
I agree with Ms. Veinglory that there is a *big* difference between ‘not for me’ and ‘not romance’. As they say, one person’s meat is another’s poison. I was more troubled by what seems to be the highly judgmental tenor of some of the comments, verging as it were on disdain and disapproval of those whose personal boundaries are a little more flexible.
Still Anonymous
November 28
4:03 am
For example, spanking can be couched within a DD roleplay.
It can? Hmmm…this is the first time I’ve heard of this. What if your parents didnt believe in spanking but as an adult you liked to get spanked…
Wouldnt you just be a masochist and not someone who has “daddy fantasies” or whatever they’re called?
I don't think so
November 28
4:34 am
to be fair, the beginning comment didn’t say she wanted incest stories. She said she would be willing to print a ROLE PLAY story with a Daddy daughter dynamic…
By the way, this isn’t necessarily (or most likely, when roleplayed by 2 over the age of consent adults) a form of pedophilia. Psychologically speaking, the “Daddy” is looking to feel young again, and the “Daughter” is looking for safety and security…
Or they are just kinky bastids and frankly as long as they aren’t breaking the laws of this fair nation, thats their business.
It may not be my personal thing, but as long as it is labeled , I don’t have a problem with it..
Kat O+
November 28
5:40 am
It can? Hmmm…this is the first time I’ve heard of this. What if your parents didnt believe in spanking but as an adult you liked to get spanked…
Wouldnt you just be a masochist and not someone who has “daddy fantasies” or whatever they’re called?
I said it can (although I really meant “could”). Which is to say, I was trying to come up with an example of how one could write a DD role-play. Obviously, it’s only one possibility. Obviously, not all spanking must be framed within a DD role-play. Etc.
And I would argue that the characters (and the readers) don’t always need to have daddy fantasies to enact (or read) a DD role-play. Just as enacting a teacher-student fantasy doesn’t necessarily mean they want to sleep with their teachers in general or even one particular teacher. It’s just a scenario used to act out the kink, whatever it might be.
Annette
November 28
10:19 am
I left this comment for the earlier post re the opening of a new publishing house and am repeating it here since the subject matter is very closely related. I hope I’m not breaking any rules by doing so.
I’m just curious. What about incest that was historically legal/acceptable (e.g. ancient Egypt and Persia and the Old Testament races including the Israelites) or takes place in a science fiction/fantasy universe where it is part of the culture and physiologically viable? Or actual marriages in our own past between underage girls and mature men. Margaret Beaufort was married to Edmund Tudor and, at 13, bore him a son, the future Henry VII. And Isabella of France was 8 when she married twenty-something Richard II of England. Do these cross the line with regards to what you deem permissible in a romance? Does context not count as well?
I agree with Ms. Veinglory that there is a *big* difference between ‘not for me’ and ‘not romance’. As they say, one person’s meat is another’s poison. I was more troubled by what seems to be the highly judgmental tenor of some of the comments, verging as it were on disdain and disapproval of those whose personal boundaries are a little more flexible.
Annette
November 28
1:26 pm
I’m not sure how the above comment ended up here when it was meant for the next post. My apologies. I hope you can delete it.