Whiskey Creek Press Love Their Authors Like Victoria Beckham Loves Complex Carbohydrates…
Saturday, December 8, 2007Posted in: how to win friends and influence people, Whiskey Creek Press Behaving Badly
I got this bit of news from Erecsite who in turn got it from Piers Anthony.
Piers Writes:
“December 2007 update: A serious complaint, devious in detail. It seems that WCP uses its printer, Paw Prints, to produce the POD format of its books. But Paw Prints charges the author a $90 set up fee. (I have it listed at $99, but they may charge WCP less.) Well, one author decided not to go POD, then discovered that the book had been printed anyway and was being sold on Amazon via Paw Prints as a “Storefront” outlet.
It seems that lessens the high price Amazon charges otherwise. Nothing appeared on the royalty statement, and there is no indication in the contract. It seems the division of the money is in this order: Amazon, Paw Prints, WCP, and finally the author, who apparently receives no accounting. Okay, this situation obviously deserves clarification, but a call to the owner of WCP was met with immediate hostility and abuse. The essence was that it was none of the author’s business what they did with the books(!) and was not a contract violation.
To a request that the author’s books be immediately removed from the storefront, the answer was No. So here is my summary of the author’s summary: WCP is not at all Author Friendly; questioning them makes you a Problem Author.
They refuse to correct errors made by their editors, refuse to run reviews on the backs of the books (only one self-written blurb), and may not even send out books for reviews. No actual accounting on their royalty statement how many books are sold, and they refuse to answer questions about this.”
Now, don’t they sound like great people to write for?
Well, I know what I’d do if I wrote for them. I’d take my effing books and run like the wind, because that kind of practice doesn’t bode well for the future.
Publishers (especially e-publishers) really shouldn’t treat their authors that way, because sooner or later, they will get bitten in the arse, and then readers like me will take great pleasure in mocking them, which in turn will lead to the publisher showing their knickers in Blogland, and having a massive rant about their drama-filled personal lives. We’d then probably be subjected to another ranty lecture on how they’ve had it up to here with ungrateful authors, how hard they’ve been working to keep all their publishing balls in the air, and how unfair their critics are, when they can’t possibly understand what it takes to run a business.
Just sayin.
Crystal*
December 13
12:53 am
WCP IS upfront about the PawPrints fee. It’s the first part under their Submission Guidelines.
Hard to miss.
I have several books with WCP and WCP Torrid. I haven’t had any problems with them and always appreciate the attention I’ve received in response to any problems/questions I have.
The owners DO NOT have to defend themselves against these nameless attacks. If any person has a problem with any of the publisher’s practices…they have the publisher’s email.
This is another case of someone getting in a knot and flaming. Nothing more than that.
Writers have choices. I agree with making informed ones. My books have done extremely well with WCP and WCP Torrid. I’ve made a nice sum of money and continue to do so.
As for this: “The blurbs look like something from a nursing textbook, all laid out in a nice little square box.”
Those blurbs and all content within have gotten my books some very nice reviews from Romantic Times Magazine including a Top Pick.
Crystal/C’ann Inman*
Anonymous
December 14
2:04 am
I’m sorry to respectfully disagree with several of your comments, Crystal/C’ann Inman, because you responded incorrectly. You stated WCP is upfront about Paw Prints, it’s listed on their submission page.” My commentary wasn’t about a “submission” page but a contract, nor was I talking about the printer set-up fee when I made that comment. If you’ll read above, I was talking about the storefront WCP has set up under Paw Prints. Is that in your contract and clearly defined? I didn’t think so. As for the blurb box and all content within taking credit for the nice reviews????? I doubt that. Perhaps it was your writing. You’re really picking at little straws here, and quite weak ones. I’m happy you’re doing well at WCP, but that really has nothing to do with the issues at hand. I can’t help but wonder if authors wouldn’t do better with the same books with a publisher who has high regard for the author’s opinion on how and in what manner the books will be marketed. I agree with Piers Anthony, something “noxious is in the air. And one more thing, WCP has now earned itself a new name, “RISKY CREEK PRESS.” In my opinion and apparently several others, it is well deserved. I hope it sticks.
ladyslipper.
Debbie Wallace
December 14
5:40 pm
Wow! I haven’t taken the time to read ALL of the posted comments but I do want to add my two cents.
First of all, I’m a firm believer there are two sides to EVERY story. I’ve been an author with Whiskey Creek Press for a couple years and can honestly say I haven’t had ANY problems with them.
I’ve also had phone conversations with them and they’ve at all times been very polite and professional. They’re editing staff are supreme and are interested in turning out the best quality books they can, unlike some other publishers I can name who only care about quantity.
I love being a Whiskey Creek Press author and intend to write for them for many years!
Anonymous
December 16
7:03 am
Okay. Jumping with my two cents after reading all the posts. I think everyone is missing the point of the so-called “disgruntled authors”. Here it is in a nutshell. When you sign a contract, most likely it grants rights to third parties to sell the books. We understand a publisher might do that, like Coffee Time or Amazon or others who offer to list your books and take a cut. This is a third party. That isn’t the case here. Clearly. The “third party” just happens to be the publisher’s printer, who can print as many copies as they like and just also happens to keep the accounting records for those sales. Where is the accounting? Are we saying that the printer states she has sold “x” number of copies this month and reports that to WCP? When, how and where does the author see the actual print out of copies printed and books sold by the printer? What’s to say the printer doesn’t print up and sell 200 copies and report 100? How would you know. Best that this not ever have happened. This is a huge conflict of interest and affords the authors absolutely no control over his/her books. Apparently, (don’t quote me but I think this is what’s happened) WCP didn’t want to pay the fee to Amazon that they charge publishers (hefty) so they enlisted their printer to make a storefront and sell the books, the same person who just so happens to be printing them POD and keeping track of sales. Not good. If you can’t see an enormous conflict of interest and not to the author’s benefit, then I don’t know what else to say. You can talk all you want about how polite or nice WCP is and how good their editors are, but this sounds awfully shady to me. The publisher’s printer should be doing just that, printing books the PUBLISHER has orderd, not printing books on their own and selling them from a storefront in their name. What don’t you get about this? It’s just not kosher or up front at all.
Teddy Pig
December 17
3:03 am
Wow that last Anon post made sense like so many attack authors sent over here did not.
I think Risky Creek Press has just received a big old fail from me.
Crystal*
December 17
5:02 pm
Ladyslipper,
Swallow a rather bitter pill?
I simply stated my experience and several facts with WCP. Sorry you find it so hard to swallow.
But that, really, is neither here nor there with me.
Yes, all terms are stated CLEARLY in the contract.
Crystal*
M&M
December 17
9:06 pm
Just because a book is being offered on Amazon by PawPrints doesn’t mean any have been sold. Even if a few have been sold how much money are we talking about here at 7.5%? Is it enough to buy a car, a yatch, a house? Is it worth ruining the relationship with your publisher over a POD company that they don’t have any managing control over? Perhaps I’m being too forgiving but I would think that an aspiring author would be glad their work is available through so many different channels. They get more name recognition that way.
I would also be cautious about anyone who claims that they ‘innocently’ called the owners and were verbally abused. It’s a rare thing for someone to give a hostile response to a calm and logical request. My guess is the author called with attitude. In all my dealings with WCP over the past two years I have always found them to be professional and responded to inquiries quickly. I have NEVER been verbally abused by them or any ebook publisher (although I have been ignored…Venus Press Anyone?)
Let me end with this…How much does this disgruntled author think they might be owed anyway (assuming they’re owed anything at all)? Are we talking millions of dollars here? As you all well know, ebooks publishers don’t make the kind of money mainstream print publishers do. If this author had one or two titles with them how much does he/she really think they are entitled to anyway??? Some authors write one book and think that its such a masterpiece that it must have earned hundreds or thousands…please.
Teddy Pig
December 17
9:27 pm
Is it worth ruining the relationship with your publisher over a POD company that they don’t have any managing control over?
A publisher gives up control of their books and let’s other companies sell them without accounting procedures and the ability for authors to audit?
Do “real” publishers do that? Can you ruin a relationship by asking obvious questions? Really?
How much does this disgruntled author think they might be owed anyway (assuming they’re owed anything at all)? Are we talking millions of dollars here? As you all well know, ebooks publishers don’t make the kind of money mainstream print publishers do. If this author had one or two titles with them how much does he/she really think they are entitled to anyway???
Do “real” authors accept a total lack of accounting from people they do business with? Do “real” authors accept a publisher refusing to allow an audit?
azteclady
December 17
9:44 pm
M&M, I don’t have a dog in this fight, but your comment confused me. Are you saying that an author shouldn’t complain unless it’s a big sum of money? Is there a cut off amount to complain? Like, let it go if it’s under $500, but cry foul if it’s more than that?
As far as I’m concerned, though, accountability should go all the way to cents, and not just hundreds or thousands.
Jennifer McKenzie
December 17
9:49 pm
Okay, I may be way off, but I want to clarify some stuff.
Does anyone know the actual details of WCP’s relationship with PawPrints? When I signed my contract, it specifically noted that PawPrints was a separate company and that WCP contracted with them to do POD for their titles.
That means that PawPrints does NOT have the rights to publish WCP books without authorization from the author and the publisher.
There has been much speculation. Does anyone who has knowledge have a link to this storefront with WCP titles sold by PawPrints? If so, I would really like to see it.
As an epublisher, WCP is NOT a vanity press. In print titles, they are. I’m not debating that at all.
But I would really like to see the link to this store front with books sold by PawPrints. I do know you can buy direct from the PawPrints on Amazon, but those appear on my royalty statement.
As for not being paid. I don’t care how much an author is entitled to, they should get their due for their work.
Publishers and authors have a symbiotic relationship. When one becomes a parasite or toxic, it can be extremely unpleasant.
And because we are symbiotic, at times authors appear to be “attacking” when they are defending.
I hope I don’t come across that way.
Teddy Pig
December 17
9:53 pm
http://www.amazon.com/gp/shops/index.html?ie=UTF8&sellerID=A2I5R9JK31DXQ5
Teddy Pig
December 17
9:54 pm
WCP is NOT a vanity press
A Vanity Press is a Vanity Press.
If they charge a FEE they are a Vanity Press.
Jennifer McKenzie
December 17
10:14 pm
Thank you for the link. This is the Amazon storefront that is set up to release our books on Amazon.
These are accounted for on my royalties and are sold as part of the “print option” I signed for.
When you find my book on Amazon and click on “buying options”, this is the option you get.
By the way, they did this with my knowledge and my book IS there as part of the contract I signed.
Again, not debating the definition, Teddy. Only as it applies to epublishing.
I chose the print option. But if I hadn’t, there would have been no cost to me at all. Only because I wanted my book in print did I deal with PawPrints.
Dang. I wish I could leave this alone. LOL.
Teddy Pig
December 17
10:19 pm
Jennifer,
It seems simple to me if the publisher does not want to be called a VANITY PRESS then the publisher can provide the standard services in the standard way that the top ePubs do.
None of them ask for a FEE they simply make the investment and print it.
Why do you care if he does not?
Jennifer McKenzie
December 17
10:32 pm
Actually, “Vanity Press” doesn’t seem to bother me.
I think the accusation of dishonesty is difficult to let pass.
You’re right. Other publishers would print with NO FEE. But they didn’t have the “Men Of Alaska” call for submission and that’s how I got to be at WCP.
No one likes to hear their publisher is awful (especially with butthole pictures) but I do see how this is being perceived as another case of “publisher being bad”.
I would, however, like to have actual facts in hand before panicking.
It does show me that reading my contracts very, very carefully is better practice than bumping around blindly.
So far, WCP has done everything they promised to do in their contract. My book has been out for reviews, my listing on Amazon was timely and my royalties were early.
Maybe someone who DIDN’T take the print option needs to check out if their book is on that site. That’s the issue if I understand it.
I was told an official statement has been sent to Piers Anthony to address the concerns.
Teddy Pig
December 17
10:54 pm
But your shock at that label does bother me Jennifer.
You should have been told straight out they were a Vanity Press. No ifs ands or buts about it.
There is a lot you can read up on to prepare yourself once you know what you are looking at. There are people who have lots of experience and very plain and easily understood information about the limitations.
I loved running across Yog’s Law ~ Money flows toward the writer
It’s easy to understand and helps in these dealings.
Jennifer McKenzie
December 17
11:09 pm
I lurrrve you Teddy, because I know that no matter what you are ALL about the author.
I did my homework (thanks to many like you, Jane and Emily Veinglory) so the label “Vanity Press” didn’t shock me.
The labels “Shady” “Risky” and “Noxious odor” along with the accusation that WCP was “robbing” their authors of their RIGHTFUL royalties (which would suck ASS if it was true) did shock me.
I read my contract very carefully so that I knew EXACTLY what my rights were for the very reason that WCP was considered a vanity press.
It’s actually the community of people online that keep me cautious and careful.
I believe that’s a good thing.
Harris Channing
December 23
2:57 am
Okay, I have stood back and watched as this goes from one accusation to anther. Bottom line, we don’t really know what went on. We have what one author says and we have what other authors say. The truth is, I have to go by my own experiences with Whiskey Creek Press.
I’m an author with the company. I have no complaints. I knew about the POD fee before I signed with them.
I do take offense at the label of VANITY PRESS. As an e-pubbed author, I did not pay the fee. Does that still make my e-book a vanity publication??? Obviously not.
Whiskey Creek Press is primarily an e-book publisher. They offer authors of book length works the OPTION of POD. We have an author claiming that WCP printed his/her book without her consent. If that happened it is unfortunate. Should the author be compensated? Yes, but only AFTER the $90.00 fee has been recompensed. And God knows that could take years!
But that’s neither here nor there. As I said, we have a lot of going back and forth. We have a lot of name calling but what we don’t have is overwhelming proof of wrongdoing.
I’m going to hold my judgements for the future. I do feel as though Whiskey Creek Press is a good publisher to do business with. Will I pay anyone to print my books? No. But that’s my personal preference. And would I be upset with a publisher who did so without my consent and without compensation? Of course. But as I said, I need more proof than heresay, name calling and unsubstantiated accusations to keep me from submitting my next work to Whiskey Creek.
Thanks for letting me have my say.
~Harris.
Teddy Pig
December 24
7:09 pm
Should the author be compensated? Yes, but only AFTER the $90.00 fee has been recompensed. And God knows that could take years!
WTF? So the Publisher should get away with it. Despite the authors wishes they published the book and sold it without permission and refused to give accounting for it and now he should pay for that privilege because this is what honest, open, legitimate Publishers all do.
Never mind the fact no Publisher worth publishing with should ask for any fees. None, not ever.
If they have to do that then they are financially unstable.
Harris Channing
December 24
7:54 pm
No, I didn’t say they should get away with it. Where did I say that?
I’m just not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. As I said in my original post, I want more proof of wrongdoing. My experiences with the company have been positive. In their statements they show how many books sold and where they sold. Did the author in question get cheated? I don’t know. I honestly don’t know, do you? If so, present me with the proof. Am I wary? A little. Am I convinced? No.
Teddy Pig
December 24
10:16 pm
Let’s just think this through then…
Harris Channing you do business with them.
Is there an audit clause in your contract that covers PawPrints and that deal they have with WCP to not only print but sell their books on Amazon?
Does the contract have you sign over print rights even if you choose NOT to check the print option on the contract? In simple terms, if you sign the whole contract they still get print rights to the book?
If so, then the statement made by the publisher in Piers comment section is correct and likely to have been made. It is not illegal since the contract covers his actions.
It would also be underhanded and unfriendly to the author.
Anonymous
December 24
11:00 pm
My contract is for e-publishing only. My works are too short to be considered for POD. The line that stipulates my rights concerning POD or print books has a strike through it–a strike that the publisher placed there before sending me the contract.
We come back to the same question that I’ve been posing all along. Whether or not to believe in part, fully or not at all the accusations made by an anonymous author.
As I’ve said, I’m withholding judgement. If it indeed happened to the author it’s very unfortunate. Should he/she be compensated? ABSOLUTELY. But at this point I can only say, Whiskey Creek Press has been very good to me.
Best lesson anyone can learn from is to READ and UNDERSTAND your contract. Know what you’re signing and don’t give anyone the opportunity to take advantage.
Oh and MERRY CHRISTMAS, Teddy.
~Harris.
Teddy Pig
December 25
3:58 am
Well, also not to do business with people who have shown repeatedly in various statements to be dishonest in how they represent their services provided.
Claiming the whole “fee” is not your fault when you as owner of the company signed the deal with the publisher is already showing me a lack of integrity and responsibility.
As I said before, we need to label these companies clearly for what they based on known standards in publishing and not what they sell themselves as.
Merry Christmas
Harris Channing
December 25
3:12 pm
So, I’m not supposed to do business with a company that has treated me well, given me beautiful cover art, a wonderful editor and on time royalty payments because of an unhappy, nameless author?
I appreciate your concern, I really do. But I’m sticking with Whiskey Creek Press.
Pacwriter
June 12
12:11 am
It’s been 9 months since WCP published my book and there is no response from emails requesting a statement. They haven’t answered the phone when I’ve called. Since the book came out there has been NO CONTACT at all! Really feeling ripped off!
Badexperience
May 31
9:20 pm
@Pacwriter: I also had a bad experience with WCP. They did not publish my book until one year after I signed the contract. A month before it was supposed to be published the editor contacted me and I had to rush to look at everything. A second editor completely ignored the changes and sent me a galley with errors in it. When I asked if we could correct those errors she called me up and said that I was a horrible writer and she is confused about why the company ever took me on. After berating me for ten minutes she suggested I buy out my contract because I had a bad attitude (all because I wrote a polite e-mail pointing out that a few things were missed.) She said I was much too young to be doing this. What company accepts a manuscript and then their editor calls to berate the author? Then when it came time for royalty payments, I never got them. They said “We will get you next time around.” Does this sound unprofessional to anyone?