Authors Who Don’t Do Their Homework Deserve To Get Shafted…
Sunday, April 13, 2008Posted in: Uncategorized
After the year that e-publishing has had, it boggles the mind that there are still people out there who will submit and sign with an e-pub without at least taking the time to find out all they can about the company. (And don’t get me started on authors who sign contracts without making sure they understand what they are signing.)
Not only that, but there are Aspies who will still sign with a house, even when there are red warning signs all over the place. I say those dumbasses deserve what they get.
Placing your literary masterpiece (at least in the aspiring author’s own mind) in the hands of e-pubs who have huge question marks in terms of their reputation, could be compared to choosing a rumoured sex offender to look after your kids. Sure they could be innocent, but would you really want to take that chance? A slightly uneven comparison perhaps, but I’m sure you get my drift.
I’m a big believer in learning from other people’s mistakes, and it amazes me that time and time again, authors hoping to get e-published are doing the same foolhardy crap, even with advanced warning.
I remember when Venus Press first opened, my first impression was, ‘Not a publisher I want to buy from’.
When Mardi Gras opened, I went onto the website and thought, ‘Not a publisher I want to buy from’.
I recall one of MG’s authors sending me an e-mail informing me of their opening, and at the time, I left a message on her blog basically telling her that the website was a mess, and if they wanted anybody to take them seriously, they would need to employ a decent web designer to at least give them the illusion of being a professional outfit.
I never heard back from that author. I’m guessing that she along with the others got shafted.
If I as a mere reader, can look at a house, and think, no, not for me, then shouldn’t every author/aspiring author be able to do the same?
Google can often times be an author’s best friend, thus the aspiring author should endeavour to become intimately acquainted with its inner workings.
SHayne
April 15
1:35 am
It’s really windy on the mountain top.
Seressia
April 15
3:02 am
I remember when I got my first book contract, RWA had several contract reviews that had been vetted by a lawyer or agent, commenting on each clause and what were red flags, etc. I was definitely grateful for that cause I sure didn’t have $$ to give an attorney, literary or otherwise. Those contract reviews were invaluable and even as a new author I got some things changed, so I’m grateful that RWA had that repository (I think they disappeared when the updated site came online–and they were old anyway.)
Does EPIC have anything like that? If not, why not–especially given that most epubs have sample contracts on their websites?
Shiloh Walker
April 15
3:57 am
I dunno if EPIC does or not, but I’m thinking not. While RWA has it’s issues, they do provide a decent information source. I can’t say the same of EPIC. Lots of chatting, lots of sharing of news, but reliable publisher/contract info was one thing I saw little of during the time I was a member. It was only for a year, but since I saw little benefit, I didn’t renew.
Jennifer McKenzie
April 15
4:44 am
I called an author friend for my first contract. She had signed SEVERAL of them. She walked me through it.
I cannot emphasize how important it is for authors to talk to each other.
Karen Scott
April 15
9:01 am
Yeah, but from what I’ve seen authors are afraid to say anything remotely negative about publishers for fear of opening a can whoopass on their own heads. The small presses with some of their small-minded Pollyanna-type authors seem to do this a lot. It’s all about playing nicely, and anybody who doesn’t stick to their girl scout code of conduct is ostracised and made to feel like a Judas.
Of course authors shouldn’t go round slagging off their publishing houses on forums etc, because that way leads madness, but I know that even privately uttered words of anxiety about a house can lead to them being sent to Coventry.
And some authors are so intent on defending their own particular houses, that they often fail to see the wood for the trees. Those people deserve to get shafted too as far as I’m concerned. People who demonstrate blind faith within the realms of business have no business playing with the big kids in the first place.
Karen Scott
April 15
9:06 am
As for Piers Anthony, well, I kinda fell out of love with him when I found out he has something to do with Mundania Press/Phaze. I decided that he couldn’t be all that bright, or objective.
Marissa Scott
April 15
1:51 pm
I don’t have a whole lot of money to spend either, trust me on this one. BUT, to me, the $150 was a sound investment in a stable future and a solid business contract… and that’s what the publishing contracts are… business contracts. And now that I understand what means what, it will definitely help me in the future. A wise $150 tax-deductible investment I think.
Ellen Ashe
April 15
2:13 pm
It cost me $360 to find out from a lawyer that NCP excluded the word EXCLUSIVE in the regards to the rights to my five books they still hold hostage. Of all the ranting Madam dePasture has done about me being a liar and an unworthy author she has remained mute on that one particular word.
NCP has not once refuted my selling privately the books they won’t return to me.
Also the NCP contract omits the little fact that they DON’T HAVE TO SELL YOUR BOOKS.
When I read contracts I look for what’s there. I never dreamed I should look for what’s NOT there. I learned that nothing should be taken for granted.
It’s been a hard lesson. I’ll do what I can to warn others. A chorus of screaming voices in cyber space however is stronger than just one.
Shiloh Walker
April 15
3:14 pm
The thing about ‘talking’ is that some aren’t interesting in talking~they are interested in causing trouble for others and securing themselves.
As lovely as it would be to have open discussion, it’s only ‘open’ if all parties involved are trustworthy.
burnedonceshameonme
April 16
12:54 am
I wouldn’t trust Piers Anthony’s site for anything.
He’s got money invested in Mundania which is notoriously late in releasing books; screwing their authors who can’t promote or sell when they don’t have a release date or one that’s months late. Not to mention their lack of communication with authors and no promotion to speak of. Nothing but an author mill there and a disaster waiting to collapse.
EPIC is useless as well – they may brag in their rules about setting a standard, but then they do nothing for keeping bad publishers out – and when the President is ALSO the Senior Editor at Mundania there’s got to be a conflict of interest…
it’d be nice if there were a safe place for authors to find a good publisher but they don’t exist yet…
🙁
Sarah McCarty
April 16
12:20 pm
You have to talk a lot, and then sort through the information received to get a full picture. No publisher is perfect. Few are total hell, but talking can reveal potential problems, allowing the author to decide if (s)he can live with them. Talking is just one resource. There’s the website, the contract, the shopping cart, years in business, and lets not forget the option of questioning the publisher (especially if its a new house) directly on concerns.
shirley
April 16
9:10 pm
Sarah’s got it there. No e-pub is perfect. Even the ever lauded Samhain has some crazy shit in their contract. I have to thank Karen for even knowing that, LOL. Thanks to her, this blog, and lots of free time I’ve gotten to know people. I’ve seen Samhain’s contract with my own two eyes and they ask for every right under the sun, including but not limited to merchandising, movie rights, translation rights, and periodical rights. And that doesn’t count the life of copyright – with only a small squeak of window, after seven years, for the author to ask for the rights back.
If I were an author, I’d be striking through a bundle of those. There’s no way I can think of that an author would need to sign away all rights to their work, regardless of how much money may be split. The publisher should be a publisher, not an agent, IMO.
Nora Roberts
April 16
11:17 pm
Most publishers–at least in my experience–have the seven year reversion of rights clause in their contracts. That’s pretty standard.
And most will, on boilerplate, ask for all the rights you mentioned, or a good portion of them. That’s what agents and/or negotiations are for.
I’ve never seen a Samhain contract–don’t know, can’t say. But the elements you brought up are fairly common on any boilerplate contract, e or print, that I’ve seen.
Even non-boilerplate, many of the above rights will be split between author and publisher in various ways. This is not acting as an agent, but rather wanting their share of the pie on a book they have published and promoted. How much that share may be at the end of the day, depends on that agent and/or those negotiations.
But I certainly wouldn’t be shocked or alarmed to see those clauses on a boilerplate contract, or term it ‘crazy shit’.
shirley
April 17
2:08 am
LOL! That’s interesting. Are you suggesting that authors shouldn’t be aware of contracts that ask for all rights, period? I mean, aren’t you the one that tried to renegotiate, and failed, to get the rights back to the books your pubbed through Mira/Harlequin and failed? Or is that someone else? If so, I apologize.
I wasn’t saying Samhain was a bad publisher. What I said was all the rights they ask for is crazy shit. They don’t need them. And no author should ever sign away all rights to his/her work. Ever. Unless of course they never want control of that work returned to them.
And don’t places like Absolute Write and Pred&Ed suggest that any e-publisher(or print publisher) asking for all of these rights – including life of copyright – should send up warning flags for the author. If for no other reason than to seriously negotiate those clauses bad for the author out of the contract?
Shannon Stacey
April 17
2:56 am
I might regret saying this when Samhain comes out with a line of Devlin Group action figures, but nothing in my Samhain contract was a red flag for me personally. As for the seven year thing, I wouldn’t sign with anybody I wasn’t looking to have a long-term professional relationship with, so that didn’t bother me.
Nora Roberts
April 17
8:18 am
No, Shirley, I wasn’t suggesting anything of the sort. An author should always be aware. I said, clearly, that the clauses you mentioned are, to my knowledge, usually included in boilerplate contracts–and this is where negotiations begin.
No, I never negotiated to have the rights returned on all my Silhouette books. My agent attempted to negotiate limiting the number of books they would reissue per year–and failed.
I don’t know what AW and P&E advise. I’m simply saying that the clauses you mentioned don’t qualify as ‘crazy shit’ to me, but as fairly standard boilerplate issues.
I can say that I have signed slews of contracts which included the seven year reversion of rights clause. It may be five years on my more current contracts, I’d have to check.
I know nothing abut the Samhain boilerplate, but I do know something about contracts. The publisher is going to get a share of certain subsidary rights. Which rights and what share is going to depend on the negotiation, and often, I’d think, on the author’s sales history.
Dorothy Mantooth
April 17
11:13 am
Shiloh, I really respect your opinion, and I do see where you’re coming from here, but I think this is a bit harsh–speaking as someone who’s been in the exact situation Karen described.
It just sounded a little to me like you were saying what Karen described never happens, or only happens when people are rude to begin with, and that’s not the case.
And as for contracts, it’s the nature of publishers to ask for as much as they can get. This is one reason why we have agents to begin with. The idea that only a bad publisher would ask for a long-term contract is rather silly; when Penguin gives you a 10k or 30k or whatever advance, they’re not doing it so they can keep your book in print for two years then give the rights back. They WANT to keep your book in print so people can keep buying it. You should want that too, really. With the exception of Harlequin, where short shelf time is the nature of the business (and there’s nothing wrong with that), why would you want to sell your book to someone who isn’t interested in having a long-term relationship with you?
And I really don’t see where a negotiation issue Ms. Roberts had with one of her publishers means anything at all–are you saying she doesn’t know what she’s talking about, because one thing her agent attempted to negotiate failed, out of all of the contracts she’s signed and the books she’s put out? Perhaps you mean to imply that her agent is less than capable (which is ridiculous, if you know who her agent is)? We’re talking about boilerplates here, not the individual. If you learn anything about this business, it’s that, as Ms. Roberts said, boilerplates are where negotiations start. Read some agent blogs, they all say the same thing. Read some other author’s blogs, they all say the same thing. To reject a contract with a good house out of hand simply because they expect you to negotiate for what rights you want to keep is a bit much, IMO.
(And no, AW certainly does not advise that a contract asking for lifetime rights is an automatic red flag. A contract which offers no way out and asks for lifetime rights with no negotiation could be, but, I know Victoria Strauss has seen boilerplates from both Samhain and EC and pronounced them good contracts, if in need of a bit of negotiation here and there.) Read the threads on those publishers in their entirety, you’ll find her comments.
Sarah McCarty
April 17
12:23 pm
I don’t particularly think any publishers contract is wonderful before negotiations. Afterwards, well, it will be fair or hopefully an author won’t sign. However, there are huge differences between a NY house and an epublisher which will effect what rights can and should be given. Both are good markets, but they have different risk factors for authors.
It has become the norm for epublishing, which is a non standard business model, to adopt industry standard contract terms. The problem with this is they have no ability and no expectation of every having the ability to exploit those rights. About all any epublisher can successfully exploit right now in this market is e rights. TO a very limited degree, print rights. (very limited) Signing away print rights, especially if the contract doesn’t say the book will be put in print within a certain amount of time is ill advised. Authors should never give something for nothing.
There’s also the risk with epublishers that they’ll fold. Pretty much, Samhain, Ellora’s, (yes Elloras has been in business roughy 8 years but they’re stil in that up and down pattern of growth) etc, are start ups. They could be here ten years from now. They could be gone ten days from now. It’s unlikely that any house capable of exploiting their assets to the same level is going to buy up their assets but the author is still bound by the terms and the books are trapped in whatever limbo that occurs. Compensation for the high risk of epubs lies in the traditional short term grant of rights and the higher royalty. Not a safety net to sign way because an epblisher desires someday to be on the same playing field as a NY house and hopes someday to offer the same opportunities. The best plan in my opinion when facing a contract is to grant rights based on what is now.
Again, epublishing can be a profitable enjoyable place to publish. It is, however, a tiny volatile market and the players in it offer extremely limited opportunities and that should be kept in mind when it comes to negotiating the contract.
And to clarify, when I say look at the contract to judge a publisher I mean look at the contract in terms of did the publisher attain enough legal expertise when drafting it to at least cover their own butt? Because if they didn’t, it’s a fairly good sign life is shaky in other critical areas. Beyond that, it doesn’t really matter what the contract looks like when they hand it to the author. The presentation of a contract is the opening of negotiations, not the end of them.
And FWIW, if I remember correctly, at the time Ms. Straus pronounced EC and Samhain’s boilerplates good contracts, I strongly disagreed that they were good/fair for the author (though maybe she meant good for the house) because of what was not addressed in them and a couple clauses and how the industry standard applied their meaning, so obviously, what’s good is going to vary from person to person, which brings me back to the common sense suggestion of protecting oneself with competent, legal advice before signing any contract.
Shiloh Walker
April 17
12:47 pm
Mostly skimming here, so if things have already been mentioned, I’m sorry.
One thing I keep in mind when I’m reading a contract–most of them are negotiable. Just because they ask for certain things doesn’t mean they demand it.
It wasn’t meant to be harsh, Dorothy, but it is something that’s just a fact. So many of us have been hurt simply because we tried to help or answer questions asked of us in private. It’s made quite a few authors I know leery of discussing ANYTHING unless it’s with somebody we know on a personal basis.
There is one time that stands out in my mind–this was a group discussion and I offered a personal opinion, answered a few questions.
One author in particular decided that I was as evil as the Antichrist and she went out of her way to cause as much trouble for me as she could. She took my words, twisted them. She went off emailing other authors privately and telling outright lies. And it was because I didn’t agree with her opinions regarding contract stuff.
There have been other instances and it’s sad, I’ll admit, that people like this woman have made it to where a lot of authors don’t feel comfortable discussing things amongst themselves. It’s very sad.
By no means do I believe that things like what Karen describes never happen. I’m very aware they do. I love that Karen has a blog where people have discussions just like this one.
My entire point, though, is that while these things happen and while open discussion could help, a lot of authors don’t feel safe having ‘open discussion’ when some parties like to take one person’s opinion and turn it around and make it out like an attack.
Edited/type-os, spelling.
Dorothy Mantooth
April 17
1:35 pm
Thanks, Shiloh. I appreciate that.
And yes, sadly, I’m going to stop offering advice to people I don’t know well. That bothers me a lot, as I’ve always tried to do what I can to keep others from making the mistakes I made early in my career, and I’ve always felt really good about that–it’s something that’s made me proud when things aren’t going as well for me in other areas. But it’s not worth it.
shirley
April 17
7:43 pm
My mistake then, Ms. Roberts. Though, with commentary like this from well respected folk, you can see why I’d be confused as to what exactly is/was up between you and HQL.
Moving on, Sarah said it very well. Despite the fact that I’m not in this world in any effective manner, I’m an old woman and it burns my nuggets to see so many kids – mostly women- getting burned in this business. E books shouldn’t have NY boilerplates – they have zero way to exploit any rights beyond e markets and, as Sarah said, perhaps print… in limitation.
From Ms. Strauss’ own ‘mouth’ “What’s the contract like? Watch out for nonstandard clauses, and don’t sign away your rights for more than three years at a time. It’s a good idea to get a lawyer to look over any contract you’re offered–but be sure it’s a lawyer who has publishing experience. Publishing contracts are very specialized documents, and someone who isn’t familiar with industry terms and practices won’t be able to advise you properly.” She is speaking of e-pubs here, not print.
Sarah’s right, Samhain/EC/any e-pub isn’t NY. Using a standard NY contract boilerplate really isn’t appropriate and potential authors should definitely strike through or attempt to negotiate grants of rights that are out of the publishers ability to exploit. And that’s ALL I’m saying. Black and white there folks. That’s what the point of this post by Karen is too, isn’t it? That authors have to be AWARE of what they are getting into, otherwise all the cries of ‘I didn’t know’ start falling on deaf ears.
Nora Roberts
April 17
8:23 pm
Shirley, Tess’s commentary addressed me not being able to control the rights to my Harlequins (actually Silhouettes). That’s true enough. But she doesn’t say, as you did, that I tried to get the rights back to all my books for that publisher, and failed. That’s not what happened. As long as those books are in print, Silhouette holds the rights. That’s the way pubishing works.
My wishes were for them to limit the number of reissues per year, and we could not come to an agreement there. It’s really a different thing altogether.
As I said I’ve never seen a Samhain contract–have no particular interest there. But the rights you mentioned struck me as common for boilerplate–and as the threshold for negotiation. Which is what I said, and what I’m saying again.
From my pov, it’s a publisher’s goal to get as much as possible contractually, and an agent’s/writer’s goal to take as much for themselves as possible. That’s why there are negotiations. So a publisher’s boilerplate stating we want all this doesn’t strike me as crazy shit, but SOP. And a writer or her rep wrangle from there.
I don’t know the e-business, so perhaps in a vigorous negotiation the e-pub would pass all those sub rights back to the authors when they’re demanded. But I’d be a lot more suprised if they didn’t try to hold onto them at the jump. If not, what’s left to negotiate?