Tomorrow, I’m going to highlight one of the most clear-cut examples of ignorance that I’ve come across in a while, but today, I want to highlight a comment from the SB’s racism in romance thread, that really made me think, and depressed me at the same time.
This is an excerpt from Trumystique’s thought-provoking post:
…However, I am heartsick by the silence around this issue. Granted its been talked about for many years without a lot of action. Maybe its all invisible action and what we see is the tip of the iceberg. I hope so but I dont think so. I have been really sick about this Marcotte issue (just this horrible nauseau in my stomach– Hilary’s comments last week just sent me over the top) and I have felt this at many times. Its like someone you think is your friend and is working with you reveals she’s a backstabber and doesnt care about you– she’s working for herself. Its a profound sense of betrayal.
Compound that with the fact that you are invisible in everyday life from the internet, on the bus, at work and in popular media. And I am invisible for so many reasons. People dont see me they see the stereotype. I am invisible because when people finally do see me they are like “Oh well I dont see color and you arent like other X people”.
That is what I am talking about- I need allies. I need someone who is willing to work with me and not pay lip service to working with me. Dont pat me on the head and say that sucks and keep doing what you are doing. If I tell you that this genre makes me invisible then please listen to what I am saying.
The inequality of it being possible for a white author to write about black characters and have that book shelved as “romance”, but when a black author does exactly the same the book tends to end up being marketed as “AA romance” means that to create real equality, white readers would need to support not just books written by white authors which include black characters, but also books written by black authors about black characters.
So I hear that you get what I am saying. And you are willing to be an ally. But frankly I think there needs to be a change in terminology. Romance is not Romance. For the most part I dont see myself or anyone like me in most of the romance novels on the shelves. There is nothing that is universal about Romance if it continues to silence, marginalize whole groups of people and their intimate relationships. If LaNora is a Romance author and Beverly Jenkins is a Black Romance author- there is a BIG FAT PROBLEM. Clearly is says that Jenkins is writing something different from Romance.
So we need to use different words and call it what it is. LaNora writes White Romance and so does Crusie, SEP, Laura Kinsale and most of the rest of those published in NY houses. And all the taglines on most blogs should change too. So the tagline for the SBs should change “all of the white romance and none of the bullshit”.
But I dont think anyone is going to like that proposition. So another suggestion would be to come up with an acronym to replace AA Romance. Because the term AA romance reinforces the idea that there is something essentially different about the love stories of black people. So maybe to acknowledge that it should be RwPOC. So that would be Romances with
People of Color. But again kinda lets the whitewashing of Romance off the hook. And of course my acronym doesnt speak to the fact that if romances are written by Asian women or Latina women they are shelved in the White Romance section. Hmm actually doesnt that reproduce what happens in this country when immigrants enter the US and they have been asked “Do you want to be with us or you want to be Negroes/colored/black folk?” We all know the answer to that question…
Very thought-provoking indeed.
SB Sarah posted this comment in the same thread:
One article cited featured a quote from an unnamed magazine publisher who stated that romance covers featuring Black characters in “Afrocentric styles” might make white readers uncomfortable. This same publisher said that covers without people would be preferable.
(White reader Sarah says: “What a bunch of unmitigated poppycock.”)
I think that Sarah’s dismissal of the above statement is wrong, and I said so:
I’m not sure if that statement is poppycock though Sarah. I think that a lot of white romance readers would be put off by a black couple on the cover. There are obviously exceptions, but I’m willing to bet that a high percentage of the white romance readers here have sub-consciously by-passed books that have featured black protagonists on the cover.
I still believe that one of the reasons Dorothy Koomson’s My Best Friend’s Girl sold so well, was because of the clever/subtle cover (UK version that is, the US version sucks arseholes). A lot of white readers confessed that they hadn’t realised that the heroine was black, until halfway through the book…
I think I’ve said it before, but I truly believe that even if the AA authored books were shelved in the same place as ‘regular’ romance, I still think the majority of white romance readers would not take a second look, if the cover featured black people.
I believe this to be true, and I’d really appreciate it if nobody brings up the fact that Suzanne Brockmann featured black protags or that Anne Stuart wrote an IR romance featuring an Asian hero, because they are really weak arguments.
Another argument which makes me cringe is the ‘But I’ve got nothing in common with these characters, plus they speak funny’.
It’s good to discuss the issue of racism within romance, but it saddens me that nothing ever changes.
Shiloh Walker
May 11
8:55 pm
Unfortunately, you could be right, Karen. I hate that, but I can’t say I think you’re wrong. Wish I could.
I personally don’t give a flying leap what color the characters are in the romances I read. I just want a romance.
However, to be completely honest, I will say this-I want the romances I read to be about the romance. I don’t want issues. If that makes me seem shallow, I’m sorry. I have put down a book or two that had too much emphasis on issues. I read to escape, I don’t read to get pissed off about the injustices in the world.
If I want that, I’ll watch the news. I’ll talk to friends.
But of the books I’ve read where I know either the characters are black, the author is black, both-there’s only been one or two that I put down because of an ‘issue’. There was a tone to the one I’m thinking of that, plain and simple, seem to belittle me because I’m white. It was a well-written book, the romance was well-done, but I kept getting pulled out because of that tone. I ended up putting it down. I may pick it back up again later on, I dunno.
Again, to be fair, I’ve put down plenty of books that came off as ‘issue’ books. A huge variety of issue type things, generally not relating to race at all.
I read to be entertained and being white doesn’t keep me from being entertained when I read a book by an author that isn’t white, about characters that aren’t white.
I suspect too many people do think that a romance written by a black author is somehow intrinsically different-and it’s not.
veinglory
May 11
9:47 pm
Even if some readers would pass it over I think AA romance should at least *be* on the romance shelves. I am sick of hunting down the store’s AA shelf and looking through all the other genres to find the romance. What a pain.
Moriah Jovan
May 11
11:14 pm
I was going to post this in SBTB’s thread days ago, but I didn’t and then I got sidetracked, so *taking deep breath* I’m going to post this here and hope it doesn’t go down wrong.
A. I’m white. One of my best friends is black. I write black characters (no, not published yet). She likes my black characters because, she says, I don’t make them any different from my white characters. They’re just people doing their jobs with significant story lines in my manuscripts and their own stories told in other half-written manuscripts.
B. My friend does not read things labeled black romance. She says, “I don’t want a ‘black experience.’ I can go to the ghetto to get all the black experience I want so why would I want to read it?”
C. I would read black romance if the cover blurb got me. Don’t care about the cover; don’t care about color. I care about the back blurb.
Now, all that said about where I’m coming from, I damn near died when I received my May 2008 Romance Writers Report with an article about this very thing. It was a decent article, but one thing in particular struck me and that is that “literary segregation” (not my term) is being practiced in the name of sales-without-data.
I’m going to break all kinds of weird copyright rules, but I’m going to quote what I found appalling.
The article cites Sean Bentley (Borders Group International) as portraying several interesting things (his direct quotes will be in “” marks; otherwise, I’m just quoting the article):
1.
The first part of the RWR article examines at length the complaints of black romance authors as claiming they ARE NOT ABOUT ethnicity. Naturally, I only have my one anecdote, but I am not persuaded that people read to see a reflection of their ethnicity.
2.
I was dismayed that the article author didn’t question how they’d come to that conclusion. Have they TRIED colorblindly shelving genre with genre? I’d bet a year’s earnings the answer to that is no, or at least not long enough to get decent data.
So okay, I can see where a marketing dude might make such statements without clarifying that they’d TRIED to see which worked better, but then there’s this:
3.
Yeah, again. How do you KNOW?
4.
Yeah, again. Data? As we say on Usenet: Call for reference.
And I’m insulted. Why is a marketing exec and a book editor assuming what I’ll read and what I won’t based on MY color? And hello! You’ve got authors yelling in your ears they don’t want this… Oh, right, I forgot. The authors are the infantry, expendable. Your opinions don’t count.
There was more to the article and again, I wish the most obvious question of all had been asked: Have you TRIED shelving genre by genre or are you just making assumptions?
I don’t know where I read it, in this article or on a blog comment somewhere, but this applies to me: When I see the “African American” section of the bookstore, I automatically think “history” and “nonfiction.” I don’t go into those sections because I’m not looking for history or nonfiction. I’m looking for fiction.
Put it in the romance section (or thriller or mystery or whatever genre section), give me a good back blurb and I’m good to go. That’s about as colorblind as you can get, I think.
Now I want to know where they shelve black romances written by white people? Cause, you know, I have a couple of those in the works…
Aline de Chevigny
May 12
12:49 am
I know this isn’t much in the grand scheme of things but the books at RRP (Red Rose Publishing) that feature “AA” characters on the cover for either straight “AA” romances or “IR” romances do sell as good or better than straight “white” romances. Why? I have no idea. I can only speculate that the people who buy them like the stories so much they don’t care about the race of the characters.
I believe the book should be judged on the story and not it’s class LOL but hey I’m weird that way.
Now most, (not all mind you) But most bookstores I’ve been to in canada don’t have a seperate section for “AA” romances. So I’ve never seen this segregation issue here.
Just my 2 cents.
Aline
Dalia
May 12
1:38 am
Yes, these ‘racism in romance’ conversations regularly go nowhere. But I have to say: it’s because the online blogworld is pretty tiny (we think we’re expansive but in the romance-reading scheme of things…please!) so it’s a same story, same cast affair. Not much fresh blood/pov.
Moriah, that your friend equates a ‘black experience’ with a ghetto experience is unfortunate. And odd. Because it sounds as if she isn’t from the ‘ghetto’ and as you said she’s black, so why would her ‘black experience’ be trumped by the media’s version of the black experience?
There is no black experience. Is there a white experience? Unless we’re talking in (huge) generalities about power and privilege (and even that is fraught with contradiction).
I think the main issue with respect to black romance being treated differently to white (and Latina and Asian and Indian) romance is two-fold (so the main issueS then, whatever):
I’m sounding one grade away from kindergarten I know, but things flow easier when I keep it simple. In all these racism in romance conversations, no one ever touches on this possible reason behind black romance being too ‘foreign’ for other readers. H/h with broad noses, full lips (and not in a collagen way) and short ‘coarse’ hair.
These are not Western beauty standards. And we all know that heroines are gorgeous and heroes are hot. When H/h are white, it’s much easier to ‘expect’ their good looks. With black characters, the expectation of good looks does not exist. The white or non-black reader may want to know the details of the H/h physical characteristics to satisfy themselves that yes, they *are* good-looking, and more specifically wrt the hero – yes, I *could* be attracted to him.
A handsome hero with dreads? Nu-uh some might say. It’s sort of like when I’m reading some old historicals and find out the hero has a moustache. Damn, that is a vision-spoiler for me. That he’s white isn’t a vision-spoiler though I’m black, but hello people, we’re living in a white world. I as well have been culturally trained to expect the beauty of white features.
Latino, Indian and Asian physical characteristics do not differ as drastically from the ‘white’ look so the expectation of beauty comes easier. However, I would say that Chinese heroes are not as readily found as say, Latino or Arab heroes due to stereotypical ideas as to looks as well as personality.
Many romance readers use the heroine as the placeholder. If they’re not attracted to black/Chinese features, they couldn’t be arsed to put themselves in the heroine’s place – and pay 6.99 for it too.
Witness: Moriah’s friends comments about the ‘black experience’. And this group’s image is chosen by a media who is looking to sensationalise, not rationalise. Hence a world in which ‘ghetto’ and ‘black’ can be synonymous.
With that view of a ‘group’ of people, why would a white reader go out of her way to search out ‘black’ romance?
…………………..
With respect to the business side of things – with bookstores loving the profits gained from such a lucrative niche market, it’s going to take a force stronger than an indecisive romance blog-land to get them to change their ways – and take a profit-cut with it, too.
Especially when they’ve sourced black authors who want to hold on to those profits garnered by niching and black readers who don’t care to head over to the general romance section to wade through ‘white books’ to get to their book of choice.
Of course, their arguments can be blown wide open (a course of action being profitable does not make it right or just; not only will black readers get used to looking through the ‘white books’ to get to their books of choice, be assured they will also buy those very ‘white books’ since they’ve been buying them all along etc etc etc)
Ok, now I realise this has been one long-ass and disjouinted reply but my brain is everywhere and nowhere all at once.
I wrote about one facet to the ‘getting white readers to consider reading black romance’ issue here.
Moriah Jovan
May 12
1:53 am
Dalia, you make some good points.
That, I couldn’t tell you. *I* did grow up the in the ghetto, though I don’t presume anything about a “black experience” because, well, I live in an insular culture (Mormon) and I know I’m NOTHING like the people I go to church with. In fact, none of THEM are like the people THEY go to church with, either.
My biggest complaint with the argument in the article was that they sell better in the niche shelving and I just don’t buy that without hard sales figures. A statement like that just begs challenge.
Again, let me reiterate: When I see specialty sections like “African American” or “Women’s Issues” or “Mormon Issues” I’m thinking ACADEMIA. If I wanted that, I’d go back to school.
Throwmearope
May 12
2:35 am
Kay, first off. White lady here. Raised in the barrio, where being white (and a foot taller than everybody else) made me stand out. Went to a college that was two-thirds Jewish. (Tried to pretend that I was Jewish, not Scotch-Irish as the family says for shorthand, but no one fell for it.)
When I was nineteen, I was trying to direct a salesman to the right person at my summer job. He needed the supervisor. Two women were standing down the hall talking. So I said, “Oh, she’s the one in the white uniform.” But they were both in white uniforms. “She’s a little taller, but. . .”
The salesman said, “Lady, one of ’em is black and one’s white.”
And I said, “Oh, duh, you need the black lady.” (This was the early seventies when black was still beautiful.)
Then he asked me if I couldn’t tell the difference between a black lady and a white lady. Well, of course, I can see the difference, but like I told him, “I don’t see skin color as a definition of who you are as a person.”
In my office, I employ four Hispanics (one of ’em male), an African-American, a Muslim refugee from Bosnia, and ok, two other white women. I consider my office a mini United Nations.
None of this gives me any right to an opinion about the shelving of AA Romance.
But when Monica Jackson brought this up awhile ago at DA, I surveyed my own neighborhood Barnes and Noble. I live in lily-white suburbia.
They have a separate AA section, but the same books are shelved in the genre sections appropriately. So basically, they put AA romance in romance and reduplicate the selection in the AA section. Knowing my BN, I doubt they do this to be nice. (Although when I went in for LaNora’s The Hollow, it was actually out on shelves and not on a cart in the back. All my complaining must have done a bit of good.) So I think they do this to increase sales.
SB Sarah
May 12
2:55 am
Hi Karen! I do think its poppycock, speaking for myself as a reader, simply because the cover art, like Moriah mentioned above, doesn’t do it for me. It’s always the blurb and, since I shop mostly online, the excerpt. The cover art rarely influences my buying decisions.
I don’t entirely agree that art featuring Black characters would be the turn off for white buyers, because I think that the decision to bypass that which they consider Black romance has already been made before the art is seen by the buyer who skips it. That is, I agree, depressing, as is the uphill battle that faces any change in how romance by Black authors or romance featuring Black protagonists is shelved (I totally agree – the bookstore designations make me think of academia, not fiction) given all the ‘evidence’ outlined by Moriah.
That said, and I have to make a similar comment at my own site – cut and paste, how I love thee, for they make my head hurt less – there is a sense in blogland that we’re bigger than we really are in terms of influence. Sure, we can accomplish some amazing things, but on the whole I don’t think our effect on industry decisions is all that weighty. I don’t think bookstores will shelve differently because people online said it ought to be so.
However, I can read and review more romance by Black authors, and romance featuring Black protagonists, just as soon as I can locate more time for that reading and reviewing thing.
Miki S
May 12
3:53 am
It would be an interesting experiment if the bookstore mentioned by Throwmearope was somehow able to discreetly tag the books in the AA section, then compare sales.
It still wouldn’t be a perfect experiment, because some might bypass the genre sections simply because they know the AA section exists, and therefore assume the books won’t be in the genre sections.
Wendy
May 12
4:28 am
Somewhat tangential, I review children’s books and am frequently incensed at how black characters are hidden from covers in that genre. Some examples here: http://bunnyplanet.blogspot.com/2006_05_04_archive.html and here: http://bunnyplanet.blogspot.com/2007_12_12_archive.html
Lynn Emery
May 12
4:29 am
Okay, so I’m usually invisible online- too much to do. Why oh why did I stumble across this thread of all the times I’m usually just skimming? But in rare moment I just had to represent. This statment is offensive:
“My friend does not read things labeled black romance. She says, “I don’t want a ‘black experience.’ I can go to the ghetto to get all the black experience I want so why would I want to read it?”
Even more offensive is that she actually believes what she’s saying. The “black experience” is middle-class, working class, ghetto, upscale, downscale and everything in between. I’ve never written any book like this “best friend” described. I’ve written a few romances with black characters in the starring roles. None have been set in “the ghetto”. However, I’ve read romance novels and mainstream showing the hard life of “the ghetto” and enjoyed them. But I write romance, fantasy, so my characters have all been middle-class or upper-class. Since I didn’t write category romance I may have had (oh horror) some “issues” like marital problems, mother-daughter tension, dirty politics, etc. I can understand romance readers who only want the romance fantasy. No problem with it. Just sad that anyone would believe and sadly say that the “black experience” resides in “the ghetto”. Offensive.
Regarding romance characters and what they look like- romance authors should ask themselves what does the world look like? Look around. Who do you see working as cops, mail carriers, store clerks, lawyers, news reporters, etc. Are they white, black, Latino, Asian, Middle-Eastern, Caribbean accents? I have not written all black casts in my romance novels. I mean fantasy is one thing, but c’mon. Writing a book where everybody is black wouldn’t make sense IMO. So I don’t. I can’t pretend whole sections of the population don’t exist.
Ali
May 12
4:30 am
I’m going to admit to being a little bit confused by the issue of seperate AA shelving. The only time I’ve ever seen seperate AA romance shelving was in a Waldenbooks near me that’s now closed. I used to work at a BN and we didn’t have a seperate shelf for AA romance; as a matter of fact, I can’t think of a single BN or Borders that I’ve ever been in that has seperate AA shelving. On the contrary, AA romances are often given prominent display in the romance section. Beverly Jenkins in particular is ALWAYS on the endcaps at the BN up the street from me.
A few days ago I was at BN (again, Bev Jenkins was prominent on the endcap) and noticed a black woman reading the back cover copy of a “white” romance. Considering the attention the issue gets online, I asked her about it. She said that skin color doesn’t matter to her. To her, the genre is about love and romance and those things stay the same regardless of the color of the characters’ skin.
With regard to covers, I agree with Sarah. I once picked up a romance because I liked the title, read the back cover and thought it sounded good, bought it, started reading it, and was baffled when I got to the first love scene half way in when the heroine was describe as having chocolate colored skin. I was even more surprised when I looked at the cover and saw two black cover models featured prominently. I shrugged in bafflement at my denseness, and went back to reading.
All that I had noticed about the cover up to that point was that the heroine was wearing a cute outfit. I hadn’t realized up until then that I don’t pay any attention to the models, but I do notice their clothes. Seriously, if you ask me to describe the covers of my keepers, I’d draw a blank. Ask me to describe the dress the cover model is wearing and I can describe it in detail. Big Spankable Asses? I thought her itty bitty nightie was pretty and wondered where it was from.
I’m shallow, aren’t I?
Anyhooters, this probably contributed nothing of substance to the conversation, but I thought I’d throw it out there.
-Ali
rae
May 12
5:37 am
I never really pay that much attention to the covers. I just look at the colour so that I know which line I’m picking up. It is all about the blurb for me. If the blurb is interesting I will buy the book. I haven’t read any AA romance – no I read a free story at eharlequin. It wasn’t my cup of tea. I think because it wasn’t as escapist as the line I usually read Harlequin Presents.
Shiloh Walker
May 12
12:56 pm
Lynn, my thing about issues is that I don’t want them to ‘overtake’ the books. By all means, I don’t care if they are intrinsic TO the plot-that can make a book better. I’ve addressed several issues as a writer, abuse, date-rape are the first two that come to mind. But I don’t want that to be the plot.
So the issues I’m speaking of are the issues that overtake a book so much that it’s about the issues-not the romance/mystery/fantasy/SF plot itself.
100% agreed. Man, I wonder why my SIL would say to me if I asked her about the ‘black experience’. Considering she grew up across the street from us in a low-income area of town, she’d probably laugh at me. No black person has the ‘same’ experience/life as another-just like no white/asian/fill in the blank has the same experience as another of their race.
Seressia Glass
May 12
3:10 pm
Karen,
I sure wished your post had garner more than the anemic amount of comments so far, but at least there are some comments.
I do keep hearing the argument that the online community is small, what can they do. You know, it really does start with one voice. One person saying “something should be done about this,” and then, you know, actually doing something. The reason we’re even deigning to discuss it now is because one person–Monica Jackson–brought it up a few years ago, and other authors and readers gradually began to add their voices.
I participated in that RWA article. Tracy contacted me because of what I’ve said in various online blogs about this issue. Would Tracy have decided to write that article if their hadn’t been discussion about it online? Perhaps. But I think the odds are low on that.
So yes, reviewing more AA romance books is doing something. Exposing your readers to books they wouldn’t otherwise know about is doing something. I can’t think of any black romance books in my collection with issues in them off hand. This argument really doesn’t wash for me because how do you define “issue”? Using Shiloh as an example–date rape would be an issue to me, so I might be a little leery in my approach to your book even though you say it’s just a plot point and not taking over the story.
Please. i think we’ve already established that white-written romances go in the regular romance section. Where I’m sure they’ll be discovered and read and raved about as being “something new and different” while an entire section of books and authors writing the same characters continue to be ignored.
Kimberly Anne
May 12
3:22 pm
Okay, first I must confess – I am a white chick who has never read AA romance. Until Harlequin rolled out their Kimani line and I started buying books online, I didn’t even know they existed.
Because I never saw any.
I didn’t know that the AA section of the bookstore housed anything other than non-fiction (that’s what I always saw on the endcaps), and it never occurred to me that fiction would be shelved based on the color of the protagonists’ skin. I assumed that bookstores were more egalitarian than that. (Yes, I know my Pollyanna is showing.)
I don’t care how much melatonin the characters have, I care how compelling the book is. I’m not shying away from novels because they’re about people who don’t look like me, I’m separated from them by stupid and racist shelving.
Throwmearope
May 12
3:42 pm
Miki–
My BN is run by a bunch of morons who used to forget to put out LaNora’s latest on the outdate. Kid you not. They left her on a cart in the back of the store. So I’d go in, look for her book, not find it. Jump some hapless clerk. And then I’d say that odds are this will be the number one NYT bestselling hardback next week. And how many are you gonna sell off the cart in the stockroom? They do the same thing to Elizabeth Lowell and Linda Howard, maybe others, they’re the ones I jump on the outdate for.
So for them to figure out which section sells the most, probably a gigantic stretch.
By the way, my three Jenkins books just hit the top of my TBR (had to finish Bujold and of course, LaNora). Hope I like them as much as I expect to.
Shiloh Walker
May 12
4:29 pm
Seressia, I think I would define it just as whether or not the book is coming off as trying to entertain me or trying to tell me a story- or coming off as trying to make a stand.
The book -and no, I’m not saying what it is, who wrote it, where to find it, etc-I have a personal policy that I don’t break-if I don’t enjoy a book, I don’t discuss, period. Anyway, this book came off as ‘anti-white’.
Most of us have met people who are anti-something. I’ve met more than my share of bigots that are anti-black anti-Muslim, *anti-black* anti-black*, edited-I’m repeating myself should read anti-white/Jew/female/male/fill in the blank*
-anti SOMETHING and the attitude just rubs me raw.
There are all sorts of injustices in the world. I do what I can, on my part, to help.
I raise my kids to understand that no matter how a person looks on the outside, that person IS a person and that’s what counts. Race/sex/creed don’t define any person-the person defines the person.
If I’m involved in a discussion where some slur of is directed at a group-black, latino, rich, poor, male, female, I address it.
I don’t like slurs, injustices of any kind infuriate me-and I don’t care to have them directed at me as a white person any more than anybody else would care to have some slur flung at them.
Maybe ‘issue’ isn’t the correct word for what I’m trying to explain. Issues, whether I like reading about them or not, are legit-no difference of opinion, no different point of view is going to alter the fact that racism is wrong, sexism is wrong, rape is wrong, abuse is wrong…etc, etc, etc.
But the thing that made me put the book wasn’t that it addressed racism. The book just came off as anti-white. It gave me the message that because I wasn’t black, I was somehow substandard.
I know that’s a message that’s been handing out throughout world history- to blacks, females, different faiths…etc…etc…etc.
But I’m not responsible for the messages handed out through the world’s history. I’m only responsible for the messages I give out, for the messages I teach my children. So I don’t care to spend money on a book I bought for entertainment-and then feel belittled over being white.
And again, in case I didn’t make it clear, this book is NOT at all indicative of what most books I’ve read either written by/about/both black-it is not. Very far from it. This is just one book and I’ve read a lot more than one book that was written by a black author so I know it’s not typical.
I’ve also put books because the author came off as ‘anti-male’ – giving me a message that because men have been the dominant sex throughout history, and because women have been subjugated, all men are dogs-
And I’ve been down books that came across as a slap at me as a person because I believe in God and go to church, where I felt as though the author was mocking anybody who has faith in a higher power.
All attitudes that exist in real life. Attitudes I’m aware of. But I don’t want to read about them.
So I’m thinking, after this long, rambling post, that ‘issue’ isn’t the world I need-attitude is probably a better choice.
🙂 Completely understandable.
Randi
May 12
5:26 pm
Seressia,
speaking only for myself, I am either not posting, or only periodically posting, because I am trying to process this dialogue. Processing which takes time, and lots more reading of other sites and books. I’ll admit to not knowing about the racist shelving until it was brought up. I don’t know that I have anything to say to that except WTF(!?). Does that WTF help the conversation and dialogue. I don’t think so. Also, since I have been reading Monica’s blog (which I came across a few months ago), and now these new conversations about white privilage, it takes time to internalize that. So, okay, as a white person, I have privilage. Now, how do I responsibly handle that? I’m not sure. I enjoy these conversations because they open up doors I wasn’t even aware were there. And I can walk thru them. But what do I do once I’m on the other side? It’s kind of like Plato’s Cave. Now that I know there is an outside to the cave, I can make my way out. But what do I do once I step out of the cave? Is there anyone there that can help explain to me what I’m seeing? yes. These blogs and forums and discussions. But as yet, I don’t know that I have anything to contribute to the dialogue.
So, I think there are a lot of people reading about this topic, and thinking about it. But maybe, like me, they don’t have anything earth shattering to contribute at this point. But I hope that this dialogue continues, because I think it’s vitally important on a number of levels.
-Randi
Tracy
May 12
5:53 pm
Ditto Shiloh in Comment #18. 😉
I don’t like books that feel like they are “lecturing” to me. One of my favorite authors (like Shiloh, I’m not going to say who it is) has gone the way of lecturing about a few certain issues. While I love her fiction writing I don’t want to read a book that basically says I’m an idiot because my views are different than hers. Like Shiloh, I’ve put down books that have done the same thing regarding faith. If the book is telling me I’m stupid because I believe in God, it puts me off from the story.
To clarify, it doesn’t bother me if a character in the book that feels that way and expresses those feelings because obviously there are people like that in the world. When it becomes a problem for me is when it’s obviously the way the author feels and it’s harped on over and over and over again book after book after book that it gets old and tired for me.
I have no problem reading an AA book. Honestly, I didn’t know they were shelved differently. I always thought the AA section was non-fiction. I’m running errands later and I’m going to check out the local B&N and see what they do. I’ll comment on it later.
Good discussion.
Gail S
May 12
10:03 pm
Though I’m a sunburn-in-15-minutes pasty-white woman, I enjoy books about AA characters, whether they’re interracial or the hero and heroine both are black. One of my keeper books is SOMETHING REAL, an IR women’s fiction/romance, by J.J. Murray (whom I believe is not only male, but white too.) I like good romance, and don’t care what color the hero and heroine are. (They don’t even have to be human.) However, I’m not a big Beverly Jenkins fan, because her books just don’t have enough conflict for me. She flakes out and gives in before her heroine’s heart really breaks in the black moment. She’s just way too nice to her characters and they’re too nice to each other and I want some real suffering before the happy ending is reached. I’ve bought 4 or 5 Jenkins books before I finally gave up. It’s not the blackness, it’s the blandness I wound up giving up on…
Robin
May 12
11:41 pm
In Tracy Montoya’s RWR article on literary segregation, Sharon Cullars notes that her two mainstream Brava books — one featuring a black woman on the cover and the other featuring a white man — have sold at “comparable” levels (and she is featured in the article as having a robust readership within the Brava line).
Ultimately, if people don’t believe that Romance can be Romance no matter what the ethnicity of its characters, then I think it just gives more ammunition to those who believe that niche marketing and shelving segregation are the wise way to go, reinforcing the belief that things won’t change.
Near the end of Montoya’s article there is a brief discussion of authors and characters of color that are doing very well within mainstreamed lines and markets, as well as a statement from Selina McLemore of Grand Central that she believes that multicultural fiction is a growing market for a diversity of readers. I absolutely believe that, as well. But I also think there has to be some collective focus on strategies to consciously build on the base that’s there. This is always the paradox of integration: you have to be race conscious in the short term to accomplish what you hope will be race neutrality in the long term.
I don’t know how big or little the online community really is (I think people simultaneously over and underestimate its power, depending on the issue and the players), but if everyone who feels this issue is important plays a part, no matter how small (readers picking up a book outside one’s usual reading material, for example, reviewing it on a blog, writing a letter to a publisher and letting them know how great the book is and how great it would be to find more like that one in the “Romance” section; authors offering review copies to a broad section of reviewers, for example), wouldn’t that be a welcome step forward? I already see things happening on various blogs, so I think it’s partly about gaining momentum and building on it.
Tracy
May 13
2:39 am
I walked through my local B & N and the AA section was just non-fiction. I only had a few minutes, but in walking through the romance section really quickly I saw a couple of romances featuring black cover models face out.
I was glad to see that much at least.
monica
May 13
10:07 pm
I had a thought. It might come off as rambling, but here it is…
Some would say in a romance, you’d want to avoid too much realism because the point is fantasy and the relationship.
But what about a mainstream novel? Is realism allowed, even of a black author? When white authors realistically relate their worlds, some black readers, if sensitive, could feel excluded/offended/marginalized.
I just read a wonderful magical mainstream women’s fiction with strong romantic elements set in the Carolinas, but going by the book, I’d swear black folks didn’t exist. The author was very descriptive about the town the story was set, and wrote lots about the people, the socio-economic differences, and even high school life–but nary any black folks were present–none at all in the entire town! In my experience of the U.S South, this is quite unrealistic. Black folks exist and in numbers. But the author’s world as she saw it through the heroine’s eyes was lily-white with no blacks existing whatsoever. I took the book at face value and was able to enjoy it for what it was.
Maybe there was a reason the heroine/hero of the black-authored book had a negative point of view towards whites based on the theme/setting/type of book, perhaps similar to Scarlett O’Hara’s attitude towards blacks?
Should that keep a black reader from touching Gone With the Wind, or should she realize that Scarlett was merely a product of her culture and era and enjoy the book for what it is?
My point is that readers should stop looking at black people and our books as inherently different. If judged by the same standards as any other book–they really aren’t that different–just perhaps not everything is from one’s usual or comfortable point of view–as a black person reading a white person’s novel or Gone With the Wind.
We deal with it. So why can’t others? I try to just go by the story, not if black folks were treated equitably or comfortably. If I did my reading choices would be far more limited.
Marianne LaCroix
May 14
1:56 am
I buy books with white characters and black characters. I don’t care as long it is a good romance. Recently I was on the Harlequin forums asking about AA & MC in the mainstream lines. I will say, there is a big avoidance in any definite answer as to allowing more diversity in the lines. However, I did hear off the forum they were. I don’t know, I wish we could all get beyond color because there are more important issues out there than racial differences. Being examples for our kids is a good place to start.
Angela
May 14
4:58 am
However, Cullars hasn’t a new book out. I also remember her saying that Kate Duffy had to fight booksellers to have her first book shelved with the romance section.
Another issue regarding the “African-American fiction” section is that all sorts of genres are jumbled together because black authors are lumped under one imprint. When I go to the bookstore, I have to look at every book under the Dafina imprint (if I don’t have RT with me) to make sure it’s a romance novel and not street lit, mystery, or mainstream fiction. It’s really frustrating and it seems really insulting to black authors that are not only barred from their genre shelves, but from their genre imprints.
Robin
May 14
5:05 am
I agree.
Shiloh Walker
May 14
5:52 am
If the black reader is being made to feel substandard, feeling picked on-then if the reader wants to put it down, I’d simply say more power to her (or him), Monica.
But it wasn’t exactly realism that I was seeing in the book-it might be that author’s vision of realism, I guess, but the implication that all white people have some innate desire to see the black woman stepped out….? That’s the feeling I was left with when I finally gave up trying to read it.
I don’t judge people by any thing other than how that person acts-that’s all I expect of others. But when I read a book that seems like the judgment of all white people has already been/discussed/end of and I’ve been deemed as ‘not worth it’-then there’s really no reason for me to read the book.
And I’d say the same to any reader. If you’re reading for entertainment, and something within the book keeps jerking you out of the moment, you’re not getting entertained. Life’s too short, money’s too tight to waste either of them on that sort of thing.
I can handle things that push me outside my comfort zone. I can handle hard truths. I can even handle insults and criticism.
But I shouldn’t have to handle them from a book that I paid good money for, expecting nothing more than a good story. I shell out money and I end up getting the impression that I should be ashamed for the actions of people I have no control over…? I shouldn’t have to-nobody should.
I read for entertainment. Plain and simple. If I’m not getting entertained, if some message within the book is so loud that I can’t focus on the book-I’m not going to mess with it.
And again… this was ONE book. It’s NOT the normal from the AA books I’ve read. It’s very much atypical
Ginny
May 14
10:12 am
I don’t know Monica. Depending on the size of the town, it really could have a tiny population of Blacks or Whites. There is a town in SC called Promised Land. Promised Land was at one point entirely Black. Rezoning added a few Whites to the population but it still is about 90 – 95% Black. On the other end of the spectrum is Landrum. That town is almost entirely White. My mother and I attended a wedding there last year and I’m pretty sure we made up 60% of the Black population those 2 days. We saw a total of 2 Black people the entire weekend (other than ourselves), one Friday, one Saturday.
monica
May 14
12:20 pm
Shiloh, At least you risk widening out. Some black readers will only read romance and other novels by black authors. I never understood limiting one’s reading choices by race–but I guess it feels more safe and comfortable to them.
Ginny, Maybe the author set the story in Landrum. The town and its people were a big part of the theme. The utter lack of black folks jarred me. Out here where I live, it’s a given, I didn’t know that it could be realistic in the South.
Black exclusion from the genre imprints and mainstream romance as a whole is what I’ve been griping about for years. It’s good to see that the point is finally sinking in.