“Starting rumours have consequenses. All I said is to be an adult about it. All I did was point out that this thread is nothing more than gossip and hope for revenge…”
Monday, May 26, 2008Posted in: Authors behaving like twits, e-book publishers behaving badly?, e-pubbed authors behaving like fucktards?
Tags:Will they ever learn?
Remember my April 10th post, where I was sent an e-mail alleging that Kristi Studts, disgraced ex-owner of Triskelion Press may have opened up a new publishing company under the name of Mystic Moon Press?
Well, I had the CEO of Mystic Press over on the blog last night to set the record straight. The problem? She also sent across a number of her henchmen authors to tell me off for spreading scurrilous rumours. (Yes, I know we’ve been here before, but bear with me.)
Anyway, Ceo Jennifer Mitchell wrote:
Hello My name is Jennifer Mitchell, I am the CEO and owner of Mystic Moon Press.
All I can say is that Kristi has nothing to do with our company other then she is a cover artist. It saddens me to know that by hiring a cover artist who claims to be male and involved with a woman I have garnered bad press because of it.
Those that doubt please feel free to check out my personal writing webpage www.jenniferraemitchell.com
or by all means go to Writing.com which is where I got my start www.writing.com/author/gen13
both places have pictures of myself and my family and my book covers.
I originally started this company with a good friend of mine, who has passed away, her name was Keeley McGreggor, to help me run the company now is an author by the name of Kristina Chartrand.
I am offended that I have not had one query to the matter of the real identity of Magickal Media is to myself or Kristina, there is no fact to base this on other then that Kristi “Magickal Media” is a cover artist for me and my company. At this point without knowing the truth I will stand behind my employee, but if I do find out that I have been decieved then I will take the appropriate actions.
It saddens me that things in the E-publishing business have gotten a bad name. Mystic Moon Press, was a dream of my dear friend and one that I want to continue to share. We are small, new and family like. We endevour to treat our authors fairly and I will go to bat for any of them.
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Jennifer Mitchell
CEO of Mystic Moon Press, LLC
jen@mysticmoonpress.com
You’ll note Dear Readers, her use of the phrase “We are small, new, and family like”. This is a familiar refrain is it not?
Anyway, fair enough she wanted to set the record straight, but then Ana Star, one of the authors at MMP also posted:
Hi everyone,
My name is ana star and I’ve been a published author for almost a year with mystic moon press. I never had any problems what so ever with this company. Alot of the authors at mmp came from writing.com and some others came from other companies.
As I was reading the comments, there is absolutely no proof as to what you are accusing. Also I am not sure why this post is even here in the first place…sounds like rumours of people who have nothing else better to do than start bs.
Who ever this kristy is, she isnt in your life anymore so be a grown up and move on…
As for the covers, all covers of every company look alike. If you go to fictionwise, you have the largest example of similar covers. Everyone uses the same images and same programs to make them…
I have no doubt that Jennifer Mitchell put out a call to arms for her authors to come over and give the blogger what-for, for spreading malicious gossip, but as per usual, they’ve gone off the deep end without actually, A, doing any research of their own, and B, without taking the time to find out the kind of blog this is. Happy days for Karen.
Now, let me address that fucktard Ana Star.
Ana, you are indeed a fucktard. You know why? Because after all that’s happened with e-publisher after e-publisher imploding and screwing over their authors royally, you dare come on here and say “Who ever this kristy is, she isnt in your life anymore so be a grown up and move on…”
That statement, my dear friend, ensures that you wear the crown of Fucktard of The Week. You must be so proud.
This statement:
As I was reading the comments, there is absolutely no proof as to what you are accusing. Also I am not sure why this post is even here in the first place…sounds like rumours of people who have nothing else better to do than start bs.
Merely cements your fucktardly status.
I wouldn’t be so incredulous had she not admitted in a later post to having already been shafted and “taken advantage by a company who turned out to be fraudulent.”
Loyalty is an admirable trait. Blind loyalty such as the one that she displays, will no doubt ensure that she will be fucked over more than once, by her present/future e-publishers.
Anyway, somebody called Jim Richards, (another one of Dear Jen’s authors) also had his tuppence worth, but he stated his piece and nothing in his comment annoyed me. Although, if they ever go tits-up, you know I’ll be reposting his comments right?
Anyway, the original post was a ‘Rumour Has It’ post, with a request for more information. I suspect though that the authors didn’t bother reading it, and just launched straight into their staunch defence of Mystic Moon Press.
Will these people ever learn?
Anon98
May 26
1:15 pm
Re: Jennifer Mitchell’s comment —
What’s up with grammatical errors and incoherent sentences? She signed as the CEO & owner of MMP. That makes her comment an official statement. Shouldn’t it be error-free?
For example:
Just what does that mean? Kristi is a woman (refer to the previous sentence; JM calls her “she”) or not? Does JM think Karen is accusing her of hiring a heterosexual male cover artist? WTF?
I still have no idea what the above statement really means and how it’s relevant.
Again…what does this sentence mean? I’m guessing it’s a run-on…but then who knows?
The point of Karen’s original post is that the owner of Trisk could be out to scam more writers. But instead of answering that, JM went on and on about her personal life (note her references to her family and her personal writing), how she started MMP (note her reference to her dead friend…a sob story…if you continue to say anything negative you’re destroying her and her dead friend’s dream), and her feelings (note how she talks about her being offended by Karen’s questions & her being sad because of Karen’s OP).
The only pertinent sentence in the entire rambling, grammatically incorrect letter (it also contains spelling errors) is this:
BTW — Is Kristi MMP’s employee or contractor? I wonder if Kristi has any access to private and/or privileged information of MMP authors.
Karen Scott
May 26
1:38 pm
Anon, grammatically incorrect writing and heinous spelling errors are par for the course when it comes to e-pubs trying to defend themselves these days.
Meredith M.
May 26
1:42 pm
I think both the CEO and the authors for this phony company should have learned how to spell and punctuate properly before jumping on the “Hey kids, let’s form an e-pub house” bandwagon. I wonder if Writing.com (for which they are oh-so-proud) teaches basic English! Apparently not.
Anon98
May 26
1:52 pm
The most ironic part of her letter was this:
What discredits epublishing is not Karen, but letters like this (incoherent, full of typos and grammatical errors, etc.). It pisses me off because there are really good epubs out there, but people like JM makes everyone look like an amateur.
Anji
May 26
2:10 pm
Absolutely. It doesn’t convey professionalism to me, and if the sentences in a post don’t make sense, that makes me concerned about the quality of editing.
Given some of the stories about e-pubs, I appreciate the discussions and warnings. I’m more impressed if a matter is handled professionally, instead of drive-by statements of support. That doesn’t convince me to buy the books – instead, I look (apart from a good story) for proof of good reader/customer experiences, rational, balanced & positive comments from authors (and gushing, “OMG, my publisher is the best evaaaaah” posts are not the kind of comments I look for), how long a publisher has been in business for, ease and navigability of website, quality of editing, and professionalism by representatives of the press (that includes basic grammar etc).
Ann Somerville
May 26
2:16 pm
Christ almighty, nothing will make me run faster away from a company than an assurance it’s like a family – my family is the kind of organisation I would never sign a contract with! I don’t want a mother when I sign with a publisher – I want a professional who can spell, at the very least.
All this bird had to do was say ‘I’m sorry, your information is mistaken, Kristi wotsherface is only a cover artist for us’ and leave it at that. The hysteria and the over-elaborate explanations create suspicion, not allay it.
As for the support of the authors – when will people get it through their goddamn skulls that just because you like something or somebody, it doesn’t make them incapable of fault. (And disliking them doesn’t automatically make them guilty of every crime under the sun either.)
heather (errantdreams)
May 26
2:22 pm
I agree. A businesslike, ‘this is what I like/don’t like about my publisher’ is what I look like when trying to figure out whether a publisher is on the up-and-up or not. This kind of emotional reaction always makes me wonder how many of the posters are friends/family of the publisher or the publisher posting under another name (no accusations intended—it’s just that it doesn’t read like professional authors discussing a business).
Darlene Marshall
May 26
2:29 pm
I’m with Anon and the others on this. It makes me wince to see people who claim to be authors and publishers put out public statements full of poor grammar and faulty punctuation. If nothing else, it minimizes what they’re trying to say, because the reader is focused on the less-than-professional way they’re saying it.
Shiloh Darke
May 26
3:03 pm
Hello again,
The stauch defense we (the people claiming to be authors)put up was of Mystic Moon Press NOT having anything to do with Magical Media. The cover artist may actually be the same person. However, we don’t know that yet.
What we do know is that the publishing company is what we are defending. You gave bad press to the company by saying that this person that burned so many people has started another company; Mysic Moon Press. OR did I read that part wrong?
Jennifer Mitchell is a good person with good intentions. Kris Chartrand is an author/editor who just has the same dreams as the rest of us. They were hurt by the allegations they found being displayed here.
How well would you react to finding such things being said about you by people that don’t even know you? J.M. wasn’t looking for typos or grammar before she reacted. She was just thinking of defending what she cares about.
Anon98
May 26
3:07 pm
You’re so not helping the matter.
You’re basically saying that she is incapable of putting together a coherent and professional official response to some frickin’ blog post. How can anyone think that MMP is in good hand?
Stuff like this discredits MMP and JM.
Anji
May 26
3:15 pm
But see, that’s exactly where I look for professionalism. You look at exactly what is being said (not what you think is being said), you do your research and then figure out how to respond best to respond to it – and in a way that reflects well on your company. Plus, this post is from a few weeks ago. So it’s not that an immediate statement was expected.
All businesses are confronted with statements, comments, etc. that they may disagree with, would like to dispute or have corrected. It is the measure of a business – and of the people representing that business as professionals – to make a simple, clear, professional statement to that fact. This is not about an attack or a defense, IMO.
I did not read the initial post as an attack on Magical Moon Press, but as a question about Kristi Studts.
As a reader, I buy a book from a company that sells books. I’m expecting professional comportment. I understand that there feelings might be hurt, and that people can have all the good intentions in the world. But ultimately, this is a business, and you have to present yourself as a professional.
There have been too many e-publishers who haven’t acted as professionals, neither towards readers, authors, or even as part of the business operations (e.g. Triskellion). Hence my listing of professionalism as something I look for when making a decision whether or not to buy from a publisher. For me, lack of professionalism does not inspire confidence in a publisher.
Shiloh Walker
May 26
3:28 pm
I don’t want my publisher to be ‘family-like’.
I want my publisher to be professional.
I have a great family, I have close friends. Whatever needs I have for family & friends are filled by my family & friends. Family is personal-as it should be.
Business SHOULD not be personal.
This doesn’t mean you can’t have friends within business. Some of my best friends are friends I’ve met through my writing career.
But I don’t want my publisher claiming that the business is like a family.
Family and business don’t mix very well together. That’s why a lot of family businesses fail or end up setting the family members at each other’s throats.
That’s my opinion on that issue-and since I’m always full of opinions, here’s just a general opinion.
I don’t know how many times I’ve said it, but folks, image counts. A lot. You want to make a public comment? Go ahead. But if you’re an author or some other industry professional, whatever you say reflects back on you.
You’ll be making a LOT of first impressions, particularly on a blog like Karen’s.
You say it with professionalism, people are going to see a professional and possibly take note of what is said.
You say it without any professionalism, people are going to see a total lack of professionalism and many of them aren’t going to bother paying your remarks that much attention.
Shiloh Darke
May 26
3:43 pm
Shiloh,
I agree with what you say. I hope that I am not sounding unprofessional. I am not trying to slander or criticise ANYONE. I would never presume to have the right to do that.
But in the same sense wouldn’t it be more of a professional courtesy to contact the owner of said company, and let them know the problem exists (in this case, an artist that is not being completely honest about their background and who they are) and give them a chance to take care of the situation before they find out about it by googling the name of the company and finding the damaging information out that way?
It has been less than a month since Jen and Kris had to bury their best friend/ partner. Then, to find these things being said. . . True or not? I understand what each of you are saying. I’m just sad that she was hurt enough to let it get to her.
We all have moments where we lose our professionalism. Sad, but true. If I hadn’t counted to ten a few times upon first finding this site, I know would have.
Shi
Karen Scott
May 26
3:56 pm
You are kidding aren’t you Shiloh? You expect me to contact the owner of the company, when it took her six weeks to realise there was even an issue?
You really haven’t been here before have you?
Shiloh Walker
May 26
4:04 pm
Bottom line, Ms. Darke-sorry, I can’t use Shi either, it’s the nickname I’ve used for five years now- but the bottom line is…
Karen’s blog isn’t a professionally run site.
It’s a reader site.
Karen isn’t a publishing professional. Aztec, who also blogs here, isn’t a publishing professional. Neither of them have any desire to be, as they’ve stated before.
They are readers.
Which means…. they don’t owe anybody professional courtesy.
It’s a sad fact of a writer’s life, but writers can’t react in the same way a reader can.
If Karen pisses somebody off (Heh, or should I say, WHEN Karen pisses somebody off) it isn’t going to affect her livelihood.
She alienates people? They just never come back, or they may harass her and send her hate mail. But it doesn’t affect HER bottom line.
A writer or a publisher? Different story. A writer or a publisher comes off as unprofessional, they lose readers.
Professionals have to hold themselves to a level of professional behavior regardless of the circumstances.
When I was nursing, if I had a bad day-I had plenty of them-say I had a child come in with blurred vision because his dad knocked him into the wall.
Do I have a right to be furious?
Hell, yes.
But do I have the right to storm into the next room where I hear a dad fussing at his kid for trying to swing off the curtains? No.
Yes, there are moments when professionalism is lost.
But when you make your living off the public, an attempt to keep it at a minimum is wise.
And unfortunately, while I sympathize with them for their loss, you bringing it up doesn’t really help. It comes off as an attempt to ‘humanize’ them and to excuse any lack of professionalism, as a way to excuse any misstep they may have taken.
When a mistake is made, the best way to handle it is to own up to it, and move on. Not explain it away.
Passive Observer
May 26
4:08 pm
Karen asked “Does anybody out there know if A, she is actually the owner, and B, who the hell is submitting their work to her?”
When the authors(who the hell is submitting their work to her) responded to your blog in defense of their publisher, you responded with
“She also sent across a number of her henchmen authors to tell me off for spreading scurrilous rumours.”
and
“I have no doubt that Jennifer Mitchell put out a call to arms for her authors to come over and give the blogger what-for, for spreading malicious gossip, but as per usual, they’ve gone off the deep end without actually, A, doing any research of their own, and B, without taking the time to find out the kind of blog this is.”
(Talk about your run-on sentences.And by the way, it sounds like you are the one putting out the call to arms, by way of your question.)
I understand the need for bloggers such as yourself to create drama as it increases traffic to your blog. I do not understand why you would ask a question and then belittle people for answer it.
Now it seems to me, that you referred to the company as Mystical Moon Press, yet the link points to a site called Mystic Moon Press. I did a little research, even finding Magickal Media’s website where there is no listing of the owner. I am not sure who owns this website; however http://www.mysticmoonpress.com seems to have all of their employees listed. The only reference to Kristi and Magickal was an article on http://dearauthor.com where the only evidence is an un-named email and a whois request that places the person in the same county Kristi WAS working in at the time. Flimsy evidence if you ask me.
Now, Magickal Media is listed as one of the eight cover design companies that Mystic Moon associates with. Though that does not prove in any way that Kristi Studts is the founder or has any control over the company, it would appear not.
In answer to your question B(who the hell is submitting their work to her) – I would have to say the list on the author’s pages. There seems to be 61 there by my count. Not a big press indeed.
I guess the question is, if you had taken a few minutes to do the research, would that have prevent this wonderful boon of new readers flooding to your blog? I guess it would have.
Passive Observer
May 26
4:14 pm
This just in, the Whois request for Magickal Media is
http://who.godaddy.com/WhoIs.aspx?domain=magickalmedia.com&prog_id=godaddy
And Mystic Moon Press is
http://who.godaddy.com/WhoIs.aspx?domain=mysticmoonpress.com&prog_id=godaddy
Very revealing indeed, check it out and you’ll notice absolutely nothing in common between the two companies.
Charlotte Holley
May 26
4:18 pm
Basically, I think writers (and most other artistic/creative types) are reactive people. We feel things strongly, have strong opinions and are usually quicker to respond than perhaps we ought to be.
Just for the record though, Jennifer Mitchell did NOT ask us to come over here and start a row. She only told us it was happening. Any response any of us made was because of our own loyalty to our publisher, not as a favor to anyone or because we were sent here by anything other than our own curiosity.
You have to take into account many of our authors and staff are very young and perhaps what you take to be non-professionalism is only a tendency to be a little hot-headed because they are not as mature as some of you. I make many typos when I am upset (and in reactive mode), and I don’t always take the time to re-read before I hit submit. Besides, these days being an author doesn’t mean we are grammatical experts. That’s what editors and proofreaders are for and most of us rely heavily on them!
I like to think I am an objective person, not to say I am NOT reactive and often even over-reactive. But I am reading a lot of sarcasm here between the lines–on both sides and that is always (in my opinion) unprofessional and unnecessary, whether you are “right” or “wrong”.
The bottom line is MMP isn’t owned by Kristi Studts, and many of us don’t even know who she is or what, exactly, she did that would label her as ” . . . the disgraced ex-owner of Triskelion Press . . . ” to quote Karen’s now immortal words. However, I can understand the sentiments of those who feel betrayed and taken advantage of by whatever it was that led to Triskelion’s demise and Ms. Studts’ bankruptcy (yes, I did go try to do come research on the subject, so I wouldn’t be totally ignorant, though I didn’t belabor the point, nor did I learn much).
None of us, were we in the same position, would feel that much differently, I am sure . . . in fact, I have had some bad experiences in other areas of my life which left a bad taste in my mouth and which I am not totally over yet. It happens, and we all make mistakes. Forgiveness is divine, which is why all of us are mere mortals. I have been bankrupt before as well, and I know it isn’t always avoidable, especially given our rapidly changing economic environment.
I think I’m rambling here, but basically, I just wanted to let you know we weren’t called in as the backup defense for MMP. Moreover, since this was an old topic when Jennifer discovered it, it is evident our input seems to have served only to reopen the wounds, which I personally regret. Can we agree to disagree and call a truce? Whatever you let your mind dwell on will grow, and if you are dwelling on the past and the mistakes of someone else, how can you proceed to the future with your full wit and judgment, let alone be able to make true positive progress? Life isn’t about never making mistakes. It’s about learning from those mistakes and moving forward to new and better things, despite errors in judgment and action, both on our part and that of others.
I wish you all peace and healing!
Charlotte
Shiloh Darke
May 26
4:27 pm
You are absolutely right. I shouldn’t try to humanize it. (I have a habit of that.) I’ve always done it. Comes with working with Alzheimers patients for a living. Sometimes I have to separate the bahavior from the person. It’s the only way I can forgive them when I get bruised and battered while trying to care for them.
Also comes from the fact that I love debate. . .
And, thank you, Passive Observer. I think that is pretty much all we were trying to say. (Too bad, we let emotion rule us…) But I like Emotion. It makes the sex scenes so much HOTTER!
🙂 I like you, Karen. And It’s nice to meet you, Shiloh!
Shi Dark-E
Karen Scott
May 26
4:29 pm
Passive Observer, I doubt very much you’re passive anything. Especially seeing as you went to the lengths of going to Godaddy to get the above information.
As for the two companies having nothing in common just because their Godaddy info differ? You know better than that, surely?
Hey, it worked didn’t it? You’re obviously here, and you’re paying close attention to what I write. That calls for a high 5 don’t you think?
As for the 61 authors, it would be interesting to find out how many of them are the same people. Be a dear and go and find out for me, please. Thanks in advance.
Anon98
May 26
4:36 pm
Is this for real? You don’t need to know grammar to be a writer these days? You can write stuff of JM letter caliber and still get that published because oh golly gee…it’s the editor’s job to erase all evidence of your illiteracy?
Refer to what Shiloh Walker wrote above. Saying stuff like this makes you look bad. And some of your fellow MMP authors look bad by association. And ultimately many epub authors look bad…also by distant association.
Shiloh Walker
May 26
4:40 pm
This is one thing I always keep in mind, Charlotte. There was a blog incident a few months ago and the first thing I did was contact author lists stating that while others had to to make their own call, it would probably be best for all if the authors involved, however tangentially, simply made no comment. None.
Loyalty is a lovely thing, but too often loyalty comes off as blind loyalty underscored with the melodrama of …how dare she!… followed by stalwart, vehement proclamations of how publisher b is the absolute coolest thing eveh!
Loyalty is lovely. But when loyalty can’t be expressed without objectivity, it does more harm than good.
BTW, Charlotte, you managed to convey the loyalty & the objectivity very well. Just wanted to throw that out there. 🙂
Passive observer, you’re not the first to imply Karen does this sort of things for hits. You won’t be the last.
But I’ve been reading her blog for…uh…geez, 3 years? More? And I can pretty much guarantee that the small spike in hits that Karen may see from this won’t add up to much.
She gets a very steady stream of visitors on a regular basis, many of them industry professionals, many of them readers. And there are many, many, many things she could blog about that would get far more hits than this.
My opinion only, but Karen doesn’t do this for the hits. She does it for the fun of it.
guh…. edited for type-o’s. And I’m gone….cookout today. To think, I thought it would be a boring day in blogland. :-O
Lynne Connolly
May 26
4:41 pm
So what research did you do before you decided to submit to Mystic Media?
Triskelion was one of the biggest messes to hit the fan in all e-publishing and it only happened last year. I could understand it if you said “NBI” or “RFI West” because they happened a while back, but Triskelion? Dude, Google is your friend.
Just saying that if you want to have your work published in e-format, you need to know your market, the benefits and pitfalls of e-publishing and if you haven’t heard of Triskelion, you ain’t been doing your homework.
I’m one of the ex-authors, now with Ellora’s Cave, Samhain and Loose-Id (you have heard of them, right?) where nobody ever says “we have a family atmosphere here” because they aren’t a family, they’re businesses.
Shiloh Darke
May 26
4:42 pm
😯 ROF!!! Wow! Girl, you tickle me pink! I think you just like to debate too!
Nora Roberts
May 26
4:49 pm
~Besides, these days being an author doesn’t mean we are grammatical experts. That’s what editors and proofreaders are for and most of us rely heavily on them!~
When an author is writing something–ANYTHING–for public consumption, which includes blogs, she should proof.
To say that ‘these days’ an author doesn’t have to be an expert on grammar is demeaning, imo, to the craft.
And just really sad.
Reactive or not, agree, disagree, no writer or publishing professional should sent out a post riddled with typos and errors.
AztecLady
May 26
5:10 pm
Go to sleep then take the morning off to do stuff… and lookit what happens!
Passive Observer, I may be completely wrong, but observers do not interact with the phenomenon they observe. The moment you not only commented but went to the trouble to do a search and the like, you came across as having an agenda–whatever that may be.
Ms Darke–’cause as far as I’m concerned Shiloh/Shi is Shiloh Walker *shrug*–I hope you forgive me when I say that you are coming across as either incredibly naïve or stubbornly dense.
Why? Because a person only needs to spend a modicum of time online to figure out that when Karen mockingly asked Passive Observer to find out how many actual people are behind the 61 author names, it is because there is plenty of evidence that quite a few small e publishers that list a similar number of authors, actually consist of something like six people with numerous pseudonyms a piece.
Don’t believe me? Go to ERECsite for some info.
As for the “writers are emotional people! we are artists!” etc etc blah de blah…
Several people who actually write as a career have said it before–here and elsewhere–and much better than I can, but I’ll do my humble best (yeah, surprising, no?)
If you write for the art and don’t give a fig about making money/having a career as a writer–do whatever makes you happy.
If you want readers to buy your books, and to have serious publishers offer you contracts, and to have a lasting career as a professional author–heed the words of people who know whereof they speak *coughShilohWalkerNoraRobertsetccough* and learn to separate your ‘artist soul’ from your professional, public image.
K. Z. Snow
May 26
5:59 pm
Just have to add my wince to all the others. Yikes. How can these people call themselves publishers and writers? Hell, I’ve always wanted to be a concert pianist, but I sure as shite don’t go around claiming I am one!
JulieLeto
May 26
6:13 pm
That’s bullshit. One or two little errors is one thing–an entire post that is mostly coherent on a reader site? What reader would not then think, “If the publisher cannot be coherent, how can the books they publish?”
This is basic Business 101. Put out a good image to your potential customer.
Besides, I’m a writer and it is my JOB to know the basics of grammar, spelling and punctuation. Those are the tools I work with every day. Do I make mistakes? Of course–but not at the expense of coherence. But it is not the job of an editor or proofreader to make my work COHERENT.
Authors need to stop making excuses for their start-up publishers. If those publishers can’t act professionally from day one, then authors who publish with them are asking for trouble.
CJ England
May 26
6:21 pm
Well said, Nora. Writers are always in the public eye. We should remember that.
Bernita
May 26
6:34 pm
To echo Ms. Leto, that’s bullshit.
These days it’s even more important that any serious writer become grammatically competent.
Charlotte Holley
May 26
6:36 pm
I really didn’t sign up for the war, guys! :>) I was only casting my vote for my publisher. I’ve tried not to step on any toes in the process, but I can’t help but notice most of the comments from others have not been so kind.
No, I don’t think a writer should lack grammar or punctuation skills, but it is something I see more and more. I have read dozens of books in the last year that were full of errata, despite “professional” publishing, and I DON’T read ebooks. I’m talking about professionally published, bound, in-the-bookstore or library volumes. I HATE typos and grammar misuse, but I am surrounded by it, so I have resigned myself to accept it may be the shape of things to come. That doesn’t mean I like it. I make mistakes, too. So did LOTS of the others who have commented on this thread, NOT just MMP authors/publishers.
I didn’t submit to Mystic Media… I submitted to Mystic Moon Press, along with MANY others, e-publishers and print publishers alike. As to the research I did on e-publishers, the answer is absolutely NONE. I wasn’t looking for an e-publisher, so I didn’t feel the need to research them. How I wound up being published by an e-publisher is Kismet, and history. I have authored and self-published any number of e-books as part of my beaded jewelry design business over the past several years, but when it comes to e-publishers . . . I know virtually nothing. So sue me . . . I only research things that I have an interest in, since I don’t have enough time for other research.
For my own part, I don’t really care about learning of the disgrace and degradation of other humans. There is far too much of that going on every day, and I can’t dwell there without becoming some kind of sub-human, muck-raker, and I’m quite sure the world doesn’t need more of those, either.
I am a pacifist; can’t help that. Plenty of strife, hate and discord bound in the world without my taking part in them. Had I known Kristi Studts or any of the authors affected by Triskelion’s downfall, I would have had reason to familiarize myself with it. I didn’t though, so I was totally in the dark. There are literally thousands of publishers and new ones springing up every day–who can keep an eye on all of them?
Whenever anyone in the publishing business–whether e-publishing or print publishing–goes down, it is another blow to the entire industry and not to be taken lightly.
Charlotte
Lynne Connolly
May 26
6:41 pm
More proof –
When Triskelion closed, the Magickal Media site uploaded a bunch of Triskelion covers, including one of mine (the old cover for “Icefire” which was never published by Trisk and so was never online – only one way she could get that cover), and claimed it as their own work.
Kristi Studts designed my covers.
Not too far a stretch to say that Kristi Studts and the owner of Magickal Media is the same person?
If she hasn’t got rid of them, a Wayback search will have the old pages. And in any case, I have a screen shot of the page somewhere.
Oh yes, and before Triskelion closed, Kristi recommended “a friend” who could design websites and covers. Guess what – it was Magickal Media. One or two authors took the offer up and paid money, for which they’ve received nothing in return.
I will reiterate – Kristi Studts has every right to make a living any way she chooses. However, if she misrepresents herself and is less than clear as to her real identity, then there are ethical considerations any author might want to take into account before employing her.
That’s the reason I don’t like publishers that use pseudonyms to bulk up their author/editor/artist lists without making it clear who they are. I did google a few names from the Mystic Media staff list, and so far I’ve found nothing or very little.
Any author of ebooks who wants to take it seriously should have her own website, at the very least and so far, there’s a distinct absence of those from this site. Myspace and blogs aren’t the equivalent of a good author website, though they are useful in their own right.
Karen Scott
May 26
6:41 pm
Oh Charlotte. God bless you, but I hope you never come to rue that stance.
Dorothy Mantooth
May 26
6:48 pm
Julie Leto’s already said what I would have said–that this is ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT–but I have to say it again.
What freaking planet do you live on, that you think writers don’t have to be good at grammar in order to be accepted by agents and/or publishers? Sure, maybe an amateur startup epub will accept any badly written crap that comes through their email, but in the real world of professional publishing, nobody wants to fight their way through a miasma of bad spelling and grammar to try and find your story.
And they don’t have to. Because there’s thousands of us out there who’ve done the work and are turning in perfect or almost-perfect copy, right from the beginning.
Because that matters to us. Scratch a writer and I bet 9.9 times out of ten you’ll find a crotchety, pedantic little grammar nazi beneath. We whine endlessly about improper use of quotation marks. We pull out our hair when people use it’s improperly. We have fits over improperly placed subjects.
Because the written word MATTERS to writers. Effective written communication MATTERS TO WRITERS.
At least, it should. If you’re going to prance about calling yourself an “author” (a word which implies some level of both mastery and acclaim, neither of which you appear to have acheived–you have more dialogue tags in one excerpt than most writers put in an entire chapter), you should have the decency to do the work associated with that, and not pretend you don’t have to bother your oh-so-elevated head with such little matters, you’re too important for that, and your pedants will take care of that for you.
Sheesh. I’m sorry if this is harsh but it’s people like you, saying garbage like that, that makes people think being a writer is easy, that anyone can do it, that there’s no difference between publishing houses and people who really work hard at their writing are just being silly. It’s harmful, and it’s wrong.
(OKay, I wrote this while all the above comments were being written. So I take some of it back, but I’m not deleting it. And submitting to an epublisher you haven’t researched?? Seriously, that is just fucking dumb.)
Lynne Connolly
May 26
6:50 pm
Wait – you spent six months, a year, whatever, writing a novel and you didn’t bother to reserach the company you sent it to?
Nobody. But since Triskelion was one of the two publishers ‘recognised’ by the RWA (you have heard of the RWA?) you might have come across it.
If I have a new business venture, I do the research before I go into it. My bad, I thought that was the sensible thing to do.
And if you don’t read ebooks, it might be a good idea to consider submitting to publishers in the format you actually read in instead of one you know nothing about.
AztecLady
May 26
6:53 pm
Ms Holley, it is of course your right to be choosy on how you spend your research time.
It is my right to have opinions on any and everything that crosses my path. I am lucky to also have the right to express those opinions freely.
And so in my opinion, anyone who enters a business venture–such as say, publishing, of the e- or print variety?–would be better served by researching that venture from the ground up before signing anything rather than after the fact, so as to minimize the risk of being burned and becoming one of the disgraced and degraded other humans who were burned by not doing their research nor heeding the red-flag waving of those who had been there before.
And just to make that clear, I don’t write, either for a living or as a hobby. I know I’m guilty of run on sentences, too-long paragraphs, incorrect use of slang, and other multitude of writing sins.
The difference, unfair as it is, between my doing so and that of a self-professed writer/editor/publisher is the difference between a professional selling a product and a consumer (potential or de facto) of that product.
As a reader, I don’t need to earn nor maintain a professional reputation–as Shiloh Walker said about Karen, my bottom line is not affected by what writers think of me.
As a writer, your position, and that of any writer, is different.
That’s life, and it ain’t got nuthin’ to do with fair, only with reality.
Fae Sutherland
May 26
6:58 pm
I’m confused as to how one can be “not looking for an epublisher” when she said a sentence before she sent it to a bunch of pubs, both E and print. Erm…what?
Nonny
May 26
7:09 pm
I find it very telling when “authors” can’t be bothered to use proper spelling and grammar online. If they can’t even manage that, then what the hell are their books like?
veinglory
May 26
7:26 pm
Well, okay, I am one of those writers whose online communications are technically pretty terrible, ESL level stuff. But I still think the idea that publishers are family or need to be voted for is a real problem. I am not marrying a publisher or supporting them for public office. But even if I was I would want to find out if they have been hanging out in airport toilets tapping their feet. The answer can be ‘yes’ or ‘no’ but it still needs to be asked “these days” (or any other).
Throwmearope
May 26
7:26 pm
As a doctor, I could say that modern technology has enabled me not to care about drug interactions, medication indications, dosages, contraindications, etc., etc. Because of course my computer program or the pharmacist will catch those for me, right?
But I can’t say that, because I would sound like a total doofus. And professional writers saying grammar, intelligible sentences, punctuation, etc., etc. doesn’t matter makes them sound like doofuses, too. (Or is it doofi?)
Oh, and Charlotte, I spend about 5 hours a week reading all the med stuff that changed since last week just to try to keep up to date. But you’re an e-book writer who never heard of Triskelion? Tsk, tsk.
Kayleigh Jamison
May 26
8:52 pm
Oh. My. God.
Does this person ever want to get beyond epublishing? I’ve had more than one NY editor tell me that when reading a query or submission, they toss it into the trash after the second or third typo. Sometimes, after the first.
A good author is a grammatical expert. Just as they are also skilled at marketing and business, because those, too, are aspects of our profession.
I’m actually embarrassed for these people. Reading their posts in this thread and the previous one made me cringe.
Passive Observer
May 26
9:00 pm
Karen
You are a piece of work, or lack there of. Obviously you missed the entire point of my message. You are too lazy to do your own work. I do so love when people make my point for me, especially the lazy ones.
And yes, high five for turning other peoples pain into your publicity, I’m sure all the authors hurt by Trisk appreciate it. You should think about becoming a reporter.
As for not being passive, you are incorrect. I took the time to research it, so that I wouldn’t spout stupid nonsense, much like you. The links to Godaddy, I got that from dearauthors.com, simply reprinting their link, which you used to support your theory. Next time, dig a little deeper.
veinglory
May 26
9:06 pm
You know I don’t feel there is a substantial connection between MM and LM, but I still came out of this with a red flag next to Mystic Moon, based on the ‘defenders of the faith’ approach to managing their image and willingness to fight fire with fire. Yes, bloggers can throw around words like fucktard all they want, publishers and their authors really ought to resist returning fire.
Nora Roberts
May 26
9:19 pm
~And yes, high five for turning other peoples pain into your publicity, I’m sure all the authors hurt by Trisk appreciate it. You should think about becoming a reporter.~
Not getting in the middle of all this, but this particular statement confuses me.
This is a blog, therefore it’s a place of opinions, talk about books, publishers, authors–and yeah, gossip along with it. As the blogger sells nothing, I don’t understand where the ‘publicity’ comes in.
I do think, if memory serves, a lot of Trisk authors were grateful for this site and others for providing information and a venue for expressing opinion and relaying experiences and problems.
I get you and Karen are at odds here, and have no doubt each of you can handle that just fine. But the above made no real sense to me.
Shiloh Walker
May 26
9:19 pm
Actually, I know first hand several Trisk authors who are grateful to Karen and bloggers like her-they made more people aware of an issue that people NEEDED to be aware of. So yes, quite a few of those Trisk authors do appreciate her and her blog, although I realize you were trying for sarcasm there.
Because of Karen’s blog, a lot of knowledge that had been kept in the dark was brought into the open.
Knowledge is power.
Passive, I’m not sure what your point is here, whether it’s to defend MMP or just to insult Karen, but the majority of people are most likely going to see your actions as a smokescreen-they are going to assume you are trying to throw dirt at Karen to cover something up.
Whether you’re affiliated with MMP or not, there’s going be many people assuming you are, and with the way blogland works, they are going to assume since there’s some sort of smokescreen, then there is also fire.
Basically, you’re adding to the overall negative image some people are getting of MMP. Was that really your intention?
JLFerg
May 26
9:26 pm
Thanks to sites like Karen’s, Dear Author, EREC and others, authors and readers alike are made aware of any “suspicious” publishers/websites. As has been said by Karen numerous times, if they are not professional in their public “persona”, how can we, as readers, trust them to be professional with our credit card information?
Mystic Moon and the authors published there have shown very little of that professionalism during this discussion.
Passive Observer – you appear to have an agenda, so your nom de plume is a misnomer. From now on, I will be skipping your contributions to the discussion, as you appear to be in this to just knock Karen around. But, then again, Karen can defend herself very well. And with such colorful language.
Jill
Charlotte Holley
May 26
9:52 pm
Good for you, Throwmearope! Your profession is a life and death proposition, unlike mine, and you have earned my respect! Not many doctors I have known take nearly enough time to keep abreast of all the new medical developments in the world. I applaud you! You must be a really fast reader if you can accomplish that feat in only five hours a week.
No, I’m not an e-book writer. I am a print writer who happened to sign with an e-publisher who promised to put out a print version of my book . . . and kept her word within a month of the release of the e-book. I have two e-books out now and both are also in print (or will be as soon as I finish the final proof of the test copy of the second one). Incidentally, I did the cover art for all my books and stories myself, so if they resemble anything anyone else creates, maybe that’s because a LOT of cover art is a lot alike.
Not that anyone is reading my comments, other than to pick apart the very stupid things I said about grammar and research (like I said, No one is perfect, and debate has never been my forte’ or even something I like much), but I have been writing (non-fiction) for 43 years, and trying to get published in fiction for almost 30 years–it isn’t the easiest market to get into, for those of you who don’t know. Of course, I wasn’t consistent, either, being a young widow with a child to care for and a living to make for the both of us. My writing more or less took a back seat to “real” life, and I submitted sporadically and was always rejected.
I submitted to MMP on the recommendation of someone I trust, and MMP offered me a contract before anyone else did. Maybe I was a chump to sign with the first offer I got, but my house mate is a paralegal. We read the contract thoroughly and I took the plunge. Period. After submitting and being rejected for 30 years, I was just glad to get a bite. Stupid? Maybe. Impetuous? Sure, but that would be my business, wouldn’t it?
I know I’m not the best writer on the planet, but I am as good as some I have read, and I wanted to see my novels in print while my eyesight was still good enough to see them. I figured my opportunity was possibly long past, so I was happy to be accepted by someone who thought my work was worth the effort of a read, instead of a standardized rejection letter from someone who couldn’t be bothered to see what I had written.
You all may be right when you say I should have researched more. The thing is, it’s MY career (or one of them–I have three), and it didn’t cost me anything to become a published author–other than a long time of waiting and being disappointed while hoping for the opportunity to come along someday. I don’t figure I stand to lose much at this point if it doesn’t work out.
To you, veinglory, I have to say I wasn’t voting for my publisher, but rather offering what small amount of support I could be to her and tending my vote of confidence in her integrity. Since this is apparently an “open” blog for comments, I merely put in my comment, like everyone else. I had no idea it would set everyone off to be told Jen is who she says she is.
To Lynne: About the RWA, since I am NOT a romance writer (or really even much of a romance reader, though I do break for an occasional Nora Roberts or other good romance novelist), no, I can’t say I had heard of that one, either . . . but as someone pointed out so kindly to me earlier, Google is our friend, DUDE! I now know about RWA as well. (Great, too! I try to learn at least one new thing every day so my aging brain won’t shrivel up completely). Oh, and also, Lynne, I must confess it is even worse than you expected. I didn’t spend six months or a year writing McCann’s Manor, but closer to six years . . . writing in my spare time, then I only took two years to turn out the second one.
Next, I’ll be accosted for signing with a ROMANCE/EROTICA e-publisher when I don’t write romance OR erotica, no doubt. My defense to that “error” in judgment on my part? None. I believe I am not the one who is on trial here (though it took me years to get to the point of not trying to justify every thought I have or action I take), and anyone who wants to know if I am who I say I am, I am all over Google, since I am trying to promote my books . . . Look me up! My pen name is Maris Gaiel Shalimar (or Chalaedra), but I only write under my own name at present, which is Charlotte Holley. You won’t find me at MMP under any other name, as is also the case for many of the other MMP authors whom I have met.
Once again, I signed with MMP because MMP offered me a contract, while I am still waiting for my rejection from the publishers of the genres where my fiction might fit better.
One sometimes has to take chances. I finally learned that part. I’m fifty-seven years old and I’m just beginning to relax and take some chances, instead of sitting here biting my fingernails and being scared someone will bite me back.
Since I already explained my comment about the whole grammar/punctuation thing, I won’t type it in again. I also DESPISE poorly used grammar and typos and think everyone should take the time to read before they hit that unforgiving “send” button, but poor grammar, badly written sentences, fragmented thoughts and typos are a whole lot of what’s on the market right now, like it or not. My comment about that being the editor and proof readers’ place was intended as sarcasm . . . apparently poorly executed, since no one “got it” except me.
This has all been great fun, but it takes too much time, and I find I am falling back on my compulsive need to explain myself (a failing that has its roots in wanting to be a writer in the first place, namely being understood). Have a great day anyway!
Charlotte
Fae Sutherland
May 26
10:36 pm
I dislike when that comes up as any defense for a publisher. Why do people use that? Of course you didn’t pay, because you’re not self-publishing are you? It has no bearing on whether a pub is good or not. Take a look at any number of the publishers that have shut down in the last year or so, they didn’t charge either. Doesn’t help the authors they stiffed and left dangling, does it?
Thing is, it’s fine if all you wanted was to see your words in print and don’t care about being linked to anyone associated with Triskelion because it doesn’t affect you. I have no issue with that, you’re not in it for the sales, as you said, you just wanted to see your book printed.
I daresay you’re in the minority as far as authors who visit Karen’s site. Those of us who hope to make this business our career, support ourselves with it, need these kinds of blogs and these kinds of warnings because one false step in choosing a publisher can be crushing to a new author’s career.
So while none of this matters to you, Charlotte, and I understand why it doesn’t, that doesn’t mean it isn’t important for others who need to know when and where there is smoke around a publisher. It’s as simple as that. You may not need to know, but we do.
veinglory
May 26
10:38 pm
Ms Holley, if one write books and they come out in a digital format, I think that makes one an ebook writer? But of course we can all call ourselves whatever we like (or not). I can confidently predict that more ebook cold sales will occur than print unless MM has sprouted a distibution system since I last checked. We get that you like MM. It would be helpful to hear the basis for this. After all you mention not looking much into this and other publishers so the recommendation is based on your personal expectations which we have no insight into. But if MM behave professionally and make a lot of sales I hope you will let me know. Nothing gets an epublisher online positive press quicker than the ability to sell books. First month sales is the earliest data I collate (erecsite.com/sales.html)
Karen Scott
May 26
10:59 pm
Oh, you mean you actually had a point? Totally missed that then.
You are so right Passive, to my everlasting shame, I confess to being a lazy blogger who much prefers others to do the work for me.
Now, did you find out about the 61 authors like I asked you to?
Who’s pain are we talking about Dearie? Are you actually pretending to care about the Trisk authors, when it’s quite obvious that you really couldn’t give a fig about them. Don’t come here pretending that you’re concerned about either MMP or Trisk, you’re not really convincing anybody.
Now, toddle off and go and post on somebody else’s blog, you are now officially considered a troll. And as this blog isn’t a democracy, (contrary to popular opinion) I will delete you at will. Because I can. Ok?