SickFic Ban: Censorship Or Not?
Monday, November 10, 2008Posted in: There are far too many sickos in the world
SickFic? WTF?
I admit to being quite ignorant of this genre, or whatever you call it, but apparently it’s very popular in Internet Land.
According to Lee Goldberg, SickFic is when net people write about public figures, and well-known celebs, either getting it on, and engaging in other bizarre sexual exploits, or being subjected to other people’s sick fantasies about them. For instance, (tame examples coming up!) Brad Pitt having monkey sex with George Clooney, or Christina Aguilera being gang-banged by New Kids On The Block.
Apparently this is widely accepted. Who knew?
Anyway, over here in good old England, prosecutors aren’t putting up with it. The Daily Telegraph reports:
A civil servant has been charged by police for allegedly writing a blog about the kidnap and murder of members of the pop band Girls Aloud.
Darryn Walker, 35, from Newcastle, is being prosecuted under the Obscene Publications Act, in one of the most significant cases on censorship since the controversy over the DH Lawrence novel, Lady Chatterley’s Lover.
Most police inquiries under obscenity laws now involve pornographic images in magazines or on DVDs.
This is the one of the first cases involving the written word in recent years and is expected to be the first test of the law since pornographic material became widely available on the internet.
Mr Walker is accused of posting a comment on a fantasy pornographic website which allegedly described the kidnap, mutilation, rape and murder of Girls Aloud members Cheryl Cole, Nadine Coyle, Sarah Harding, Nicola Roberts and Kimberley Walsh.
It was headlined “Girls (Scream) Aloud” and is said to have run to the equivalent of 12 pages.
I mean how fucked up would you have to be to even feel the need to write anything so vile? Surely people who spew this kind of venom are only a few steps away from acting out their sick fantasies?
People will argue that it’s no different to an author who writes about serial killers etc, but I think that’s a load of utter bollocks. This is not only obsession in, the worst sense of the word, but it also borders on psychotic, and anybody who thinks it’s ok to write such vile and venomous things about other real-life human beings, who have done them no harm, seriously needs their head examining.
I think people who go this far, really should serve time in jail. Even celebrities deserve protection from this type of thing.
What say you?
Via Lee Goldberg.
Lleeo
November 10
11:43 am
What an idiot.
Shiloh Walker
November 10
12:01 pm
That would be my concern.
Emmy
November 10
12:17 pm
How different is this sickfic from any other fanfic stuffs, other than you find it objectionable? I don’t think writing about something means a person would go out and do it any more than playing video games means the majority of people will go on a shooting spree.
Just because I write slashy Aragorn/Boromir fanfic doesn’t mean that I’d want to see…ok, bad example. Gimme a minute.
Karen Scott
November 10
12:43 pm
Emmy I think it really crosses a line. I generally have no feelings about fanfic either way, but I think that content should be a consideration.
If people out there decided to write about Sarah Palin being raped and murdered, I’d say the same thing. These are real people, and that should be enough of a reason to not let these things get so out of hand.
If the sickfick involved mutilating celebrities’ children, what would the justification for that be?
Entertainment? For whom?
For me it’s cut and dried, there should be repercussions for people who write this kind of stuff.
Sick bastards.
Emmy
November 10
12:57 pm
Ever listen to any of Eminem’s early raps? Guy did whole songs about dragging his wife out in the woods and cutting her and listening to her scream. Albums sold millions, so apparently there’s an audience for this type of writing/lyrics.
I’d be pretty frickin disturbed to read a story about somebody’s fantasy about killing me, that’s for sure. But I can’t see that any of the examples presented in your post are anything other than people popping off at the mouth. Nobody has actually said “Imma kill those biatches and this is how it’s going down”.
Your bessie mates Rampaging Rhino and Co wrote bucked up shite too. Should we notify the authorities…ones that don’t involve anyone’s hubby?
jmc
November 10
1:03 pm
I don’t get this and feel sickened by it.
But then, I don’t get Real Person fic or slash generally. I mean, it’s one thing to make up something pervy about two (or more) fictional characters, but real people? Not interested. Having said that, I know that there is a huge fandom/bandom community that loves RPF.
Tuscan Capo
November 10
1:56 pm
While I think these new UK pornography laws are in general overbearing, this particular behavior does sound scary. I agree with you, Karen, fiction presented clearly as fiction is much different than some perv sharing his sick fantasies of harming real human beings. Its probably best defined as a form of stalking.
Karen Scott
November 10
2:08 pm
I don’t think that it makes it ok just because people make money out of it.
And I really don’t think you can compare CC and that crazy bitch side kick of hers, because they weren’t writing about my rape and mutilation. The stuff they wrote crossed the boundaries of taste and decency, but this kind of thing takes it up to another level altogether.
I think there are some things that should be censored, and this type of sickfic is one of them.
Nobody can tell me that these kind of fantasties don’t sometimes lead to acting out.Serial killers and rapists have to start somewhere don’t they?
Karen Scott
November 10
2:30 pm
Exactly TC, I think it does border on stalking.
Angela James
November 10
3:37 pm
I think the first thing anyone should do is put themselves there. Would you want someone writing stories like that starring you? You wouldn’t find it at all disturbing? I so would totally object to my totally real and non-fictional self being portrayed doing those acts, because for one, ewww and two, there ARE people out there who would read it and believe it’s “real”. Sorry, I worked in mental health long enough to say that with 100% absolute surety. Someone reading that would not understand it’s fiction and prescribe those actions to the real person.
Quite frankly, I don’t subscribe to the theory that being a public figure means they open themselves up for this type of thing and must live with it. Bull. They’re people, with children and fears and a life, and shouldn’t have to worry about things like that. It’s icky and unnecessary.
Sparky
November 10
4:07 pm
Here’s the thing. I’d be happy about using a character that Brad Pit played getting it on with a character George Clooney played – but the people themselves?
I find there’s something rather violating about using an actual person in your fiction without their express consent – far worse than using someone else’s work, to actually use them? It crosses a line, methinks. You can violate their fictional characters and those characters aren’t in a position to care. But to use someone – a real person’s identity? Yeah, just no
And if it’s about kidnapping and murdering them? Yeah that line has not only been crossed but you’ve sprinted over it and are racing for the horizon. Now, I admit I wouldn’t be entirely disappointed if Girls Aloud were silenced (though such extreme measures are rather unnecessary) using actual people in your rape/murde/torture fantasy? Yeah that’s not right – and it’s really not fair on the people involved.
I mean, can you imagine, say, googling my name on the internet and finding out someone has lurid fantasies of kidnapping, torturing and murdering you? Not just fantasies of doing these things – but doing them EXPLICITLY to YOU personally? Aie, doesn’t make for an easy night’s sleep
Karen Scott
November 10
4:07 pm
What Angie said.
Ciar Cullen
November 10
5:34 pm
It’s a toughy. I mean, there’s no doubt the guy is really a sicko. And could actually be dangerous.
Then, what do you do about cop-killer songs? Maybe that’s a bad example, but you know what I mean. If someone writes a blog that says that Sarah Palin should be shot (someone used this horrific example), would they be subject to the same action? I would think that anything that can be deemed as a threat is illegal, no?
Jenns
November 10
5:34 pm
Wow … Just … I have no words.
It’s amazing (in a bad, bad way) how many very sick people are out there.
Lleeo
November 10
6:38 pm
And I agree that this is definitely crossing a line and that this person is sick and twisted.
Shiloh Walker
November 10
7:58 pm
My opinion would be that anything that personalizes it. Cop-killer songs, which IMO are disgusting and disturbing, don’t personalize things. They don’t take Cop Billy Bob from City A on the map and detail how they wanna kill this cop.
These things are personalized. Involving real people, with specific details on the death. I’d think it counts as some sort of stalking.
Angelia Sparrow
November 10
11:45 pm
Y’all have never encountered Doclett or Chez Marquis, I take it. (google them, I’m not giving them more traffic, May need the wayback machine for the Marquis)
And where do you stand on Nailin’ Paylin, made with a look-alike? Or celebrity impersonators who strip?
Sickfic is out there. It’s been out there since before the internet. Write it off and move on.
Sybil
November 10
11:50 pm
Never heard the term sickfic but Real Person fic or RPF was an issue on and off when I was in fandom.
you can still find old flamewar threads over some of it in the old alt.xfiles.fanfic or whatever it was… the only one I can think of was called Raping DD (actor) I would spell it but you would blame me for fucked up hits *g*
Most people were against it and I can’t think of any ‘reason’ anyone gave for it. The board I moderated flat out had rules against it and would delete and ban the person.
But there is an audience for it somewhere…
Fae Sutherland
November 11
1:36 am
I’ve never heard it termed sickfic. In fandom it’s called RPF, or real person fic, and no, it’s not widely accepted. It’s actually quite frowned upon and almost all major fanfic archiving sites ban it from being posted there.
It’s a hot topic in many fandoms, the line between a character portrayed and the person portraying them. I just wanted to point out that no, it is absolutely NOT widely accepted. It’s out there, but the core of fandom rejects it.
Naomi Brooks
November 11
2:17 am
And there goes Lee again, digging up the disavowed tangent and using it to bash away at all of fandom. One trick pony much?
People who write extreme situations are not necessarily “sick” people.
Dirty and inappropriate fantasies about real people exist whether they’re written down or not. And for every piece of RPF that gets posted to the Internet, there’s 1000 or more people daydreaming of worse.
Lee Goldberg
November 11
4:28 am
Karen,
I may have coined the term “sickfic” to describe “Real Person Slash” back in 2005 in this post:
http://leegoldberg.typepad.com/a_writers_life/2005/07/is_this_fanfico.html
And, contrary to Fae and Naomi’s comments, Real Person Slash isn’t “disavowed” or as widely shunned by fandom as they would like to believe. In fact, the Organization for Transformative Works embraces it and is working to legitimize it. One of their founders is Dr. Robin Anne Reid, who likes to write and distribute sexually explicit sickfic about Viggo Mortenson having sex with his fellow actors.
From their missions statement:
“We envision a future in which all fannish works are recognized as legal and transformative and are accepted as a legitimate creative activity. We are proactive and innovative in protecting and defending our work from commercial exploitation and legal challenge. We preserve our fannish economy, values, and creative expression by protecting and nurturing our fellow fans, our work, our commentary, our history, and our identity while providing the broadest possible access to fannish activity for all fans.”
They have even started the “Open Door Archive” specifically for slash, Real Person Slash and other “at risk fannish projects.” And they have created a legal defense fund so they can be “proactive in protecting and defending fanworks from commercial exploitation and legal challenge. This help will not be limited to those fans or projects directly connected with OTW.”
I would love to see them jump into this case…and defend this guy’s “fannish work.”
Lee
Angelia Sparrow
November 11
4:35 am
OTW is The Elitist Bitch Vidding Cabal (their term) attempting to crown themselves Queen of Fandom. I hesitate to believe very much of what they’re doing will come to fruition.
And RPF has been around since the 70s. I refer you to Myshak and Culbreath’s “Visit to a Weird Planet Revisited,” in which the actors were beamed aboard the actual Enterprise. Or for that matter, any of the fan magazines like Tiger Beat, which concocted whole-cloth the days and lives of Leif Garrett, the Bay City Rollers and Linda Blair.
RPS… it’s always a touchy subject. Even OTW knows they’s walking in a minefield there.
Karen Scott
November 11
7:12 am
But Naomi, I totally agree with Lee on this. It’s one thing writing about famous characters etc, but it’s quite another to write about mutilating and murdering real people.
And please, I would much rather people kept their dreams to themselves. Real Person Fic is wrong on so many levels, but the people who write the extreme stuff? They passed ‘wrong’ a long time ago.
And the example of celebrity impersonators stripping? Not even in the same league. At least those celebs can go to sleep at night, without worrying that somebody is merrily obsessed about raping and killing them.
People who write this kind of crap are sick, and I’m going to lump them all together, no matter who they are.
Lee Goldberg
November 11
8:28 am
It’s one thing to sit in the privacy of your apartment with your cats and your collection of unicorn figurines and daydream about Leonardo DiCaprio teaching the Jonas Brothers how to give each other blowjobs…it’s another thing to write about it and post it all over the Internet.
Lee
Lleeo
November 11
8:49 am
Personally, I don’t have a problem with people posting fanfics about celebrities. They’re out there in the media and people are going to fantasize or have fun and be creative.
I can see why a celebrity would be offended if a fan sent them one of their stories involving an intimate sex scene starring them but I’m guessing most fans have to foresight to know not to do this.
I don’t really view it as ‘sick.’ Fans may post these stories on the Internet but it’s mostly for the entertainment of other fans with similar interests and I doubt many celebrities are going to actively look for them or would know where to find most of them.
Like other people have mentioned, I feel like people are going to write about murder and mutilation if that interests them and that it’s really hard to tell which ones are the real psychos. I just feel like this guy was stupid if he thought broadcasting his murderous fantasies about real celebrities might not warrant attention from the police.
This makes my head hurt.
Sybil
November 11
1:12 pm
Ah it is a lee term…
I have only been involved in one fandom and it was years ago. It was a huge fandom, I read more fic than I would want to remember, beta’ed more than I can recall, was involved in two websites and moderated a fic board on one of the biggest sites at the time so most likely lee knows better since he is so involved but from what I recall no website ‘ran’ by any fans posted or created RPF. It was all anon.
Alt. boards and unmoderated boards would get it. Every once in a while one would slip through a main place, a huge ass flame war would take place (going on forever) – rinse, wash & repeat every few years or when someone got lost on their way to alt.sexstories or alt.whatev (usenet you gots to love it).
This is the internet. Any sick, twisted, fucked up thing you can think of – if you google it will come.
Ten to one there isn’t a celeb or well known name out there that if you looked you couldn’t find some thing, someone, somewhere would find offensive.
This is pretty much like your incest posts, you are going to get a shit load of people who agree with you – cuz most do. A few anon’s that might tell you that you are wrong and evol (one might have even read the post). And then it is business as usual cuz the peeps that want it, do it, read it or whatev aren’t going to be here (they are busy LOL, sorry 😉 ). And most likely fucknut is busy writing right now.
Really explain Furries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furry_fandom) the world is an odd place ::shrug:: hmmm although I guess that could be thought of as really early paranormal romance… ow that just hurt my head
gots to lurve wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_person_fiction#Morality_and_Legality
Sybil
November 11
1:14 pm
aww I gots spammed… too many links or karen now hatessss me ::cries:: too lazy to retype
Fanfic
November 11
1:45 pm
@Lee
Fandom isn’t some homogeneous mass that thinks with some kind of hive mind. It depends on which fandom you are in as to whether rpf/rps is widely frowned upon or not. I know that there was a heck of a lot of rps (real person slash) in the Lord of the Rings Fandom for instance but I was never really part of that fandom, so I have no idea whether it was frowned upon or not. The two fandoms that I participated in were Smallville & Stargate. I don’t recall ever seeing any Stargate RPF (real person fiction) but I did see RPS in smallville from time to time on various LJs. It was frowned upon. If you wanted it you knew where to go but it wasn’t posted to any of the main fandom fan fiction archives.
If you look at arguably the biggest fan fiction archive out there – fanfiction.net you will note that it does not allow real person fiction to be posted. RPF/RPS is shunned by the the mainstream fanish community but there are those out there with their little kinks. Some fandoms have larger groups of people who don’t mind RPF/RPS than others.
Shiloh Walker
November 11
2:30 pm
My opinion, though, while this doesn’t appeal to me, no matter whose name you sub in, this scenario doesn’t depict anything bringing harm to the characters involved. Unless it’s involving force, which translates to rape. Rape=bad. This is fictionalized, personalized violence.
When the fic involves scenarios where actual people are being harmed, raped, mutilated, castrated, HARMED-that crosses a line, IMO.
Fae Sutherland
November 11
3:38 pm
Fandom is very diverse and as stated above, very rarely do different fandoms intersect with each other. I haven’t the faintest who the OTW people are, so what they think means nothing to me. They can think writing mutilating rape fics about real people is okay, I will happily disagree and say so. So quoting them, as if you’re quoting fandom as a whole, is ridiculous. We’re not one and the same.
For every tv show, every movie, ever Twilight type bestseller, there’s a fandom. I don’t know, nor do I care, what those fandoms do or say or think. They’re not me and they’re not my fandoms. Fandom in general frowns upon RPF. Of course that’s in general, not in total, and clearly there’s people who write it. Whether writing about an actor having sex with another is on par with writing about killing and torturing an actor…well, I can’t see them as equal, sorry.
Naomi Brooks
November 11
7:38 pm
You’ve been called out already on the fact that a lot of your fannish protest (and mocking of pro romance e-books) is sexist in nature, which you have completely denied is the truth. Now RPS, whether a tangent of fandom or not (it was a tangent of the fandoms I was involved with), is mocked by you as being written by crazy cat lady losers. Good going on setting that accusation straight. :p
Las
November 11
8:22 pm
It’s creepy as hell, but one shouldn’t be arrested for it unless they send it to the celebrities involved and/or are stalking those celebrities. In those cases I would considering that fanfic a threat.
Lee Goldberg
November 11
8:54 pm
Naomi,
As far as I know, I wasn’t describing a woman. My description was intentionally sex-neutral. I think your interpretation says more about your prejudices than any that you think that I might have.
Lee
Naomi Brooks
November 11
10:24 pm
Lee:
Yes, because men are *so* often talked about in terms of numbers of cats and unicorn figurines owned. Fandom and the romance genre are highly gendered spaces. Highly gendered toward women. And lately they are your favorite stopping grounds to discredit, mock, and generally piss all over.
Angelia Sparrow
November 11
10:47 pm
Karen, RPF fiction was started by the movie studios themselves back in the day of Photoplay and the other fanmagazines.
I see almost no difference between some studio-created romance between 1940s stars, a 16 Magazine fictionalized day in the life of a 70s boy band (documented with pictures, but totally posed), and a fan writing a story about Sir Ian and Patric Stewart holding hands over tea to get into character.
The internet did not create this stuff. It just gives it wider distribution.
Also, the label of “sick” is a poor choice for extreme fictional material. I’ve written romance involving a eunuch. Does that count as sick?
Where do you draw the line? Heavy BDSM? Gang-rape? (Do we ban Last Exit to Brooklyn?) Gory Death? (We can write off the whole horror genre and most of the mystery)
Or does the “sick” only apply to those who write about doing it to “real people?” Why is it acceptable to write about Andy Dufresne being assaulted in prison if it’s not acceptable to write about OJ Simpson being assaulted in prison?
Fiction is not a crime. Not yet. Although it seems there are some who would make it so.
@Lee:
You may have left out pronouns, but all the imagery you chose was female. I don’t know any men who collect unicorns or cats. And you know as well as anyone that 90% of fanfiction is produced by women, 99% for slash.
Lee Goldberg
November 11
10:53 pm
Naomi,
I have nothing against the romance genre at all and, in fact, count many romance authors, past and present, among my friends and relatives. I don’t mock, discredit, or piss on romance. It’s a genre that doesn’t get nearly the respect it deserves.
I think you are taking my disagreements with some individuals and using that to make a ridiculously sweeping assumption about my views. Just because I’ve disagreed with a female writer of ebook slash doesn’t mean I hate women and romances.
There are mystery authors that I’ve loudly and publicly disagreed with, too — does that mean that I hate men and mysteries?
I do, however, mock, discredit and generally piss all over the sad, pathetic people, male and female alike, who write Real People Slash, a genre I do mock, discredit and generally piss all over.
Lee
Shiloh Walker
November 12
1:27 am
It seems to me that most of the people here who are bothered by the article Karen referenced aren’t so much bothered by fan fic elements. If he was just writing a story about how he wooed and seduced each one of them and then went on to woo and seduce the next girl band, I wouldn’t care.
I’m bothered because it involved him kidnapping, raping, mutilating and murdering the members of that girl band.
There is a clear line here-this scenario involves fictionalized harm against actual people.
Unless your story is centered around an actual person and you fictionalized how he was made a eunuch, there is no similarity here.
Big difference between some fan fic writers writing up stories about Boromir and Aragorn getting on, and some pervert~yes, I think he is a pervert and a deranged one, writing up a story how he kidnapped, mutilated, raped and murdered a couple of girls. Again, no similarity.
It’s not so much the fan fiction that bothers me-it’s the sheer violence and perversion that goes into somebody writing up a story where he’s fantasizing about kidnapping, raping, mutilating, and murdering some women-real women, not characters from a show.
Karen Scott
November 12
7:38 am
Angelia, was the eunuch a real person who you decided to de-penis in your story because you hated that person or was obsessed by that person?
If so, then yes, you are sick, but I suspect that your eunuch was probably a fictional character.
As much as I hate BDSM, heavy or otherwise, as long as they don’t involve the penned mutilation and murder of a real person, have at it.
This isn’t about sub-genres that I don’t like, it’s about the infringement of people’s basic human right to feel safe from harm.
I don’t give a rats arse about made up stories about fictional characters,I think that fan ficcers who write about real people getting it on are slightly strange, but that’s the kind of world we live in, however writing about the rape and murder of real people isn’t just about my personal objection, it’s tantamount to actual mental abuse.
I wouldn’t sleep for a year if I discovered a site dedicated to my mutilation and murder, and as a human being, why should I have to go through that kind of totally unnecessary stress, when the perps can get away with it by claiming free speech?
GravyGhost
May 26
12:12 pm
I’m not criticizing anyone, but how many of you are either in or have knowledge of fandoms?
Writing fan fiction about a celebrity doing it with whoever you’ve paired them up with is just the same as with fictional characters. It doesn’t affect them as people in any way. I do oppose the really heavy BDSM, rape or any other more violent kink people come up with because it is stressful and unneccesary for the person who was fictionally subjected to this. Either way, calling people sick isn’t right, writing RPF/RPS is much better half the stuff you can google or things you can take pleasure from instead.
Also as a side note, even though you corrected it, sickfics are an entirely different story and debate.
-GG