AztecLady speaks: I am weak and in desperate need of help.
Wednesday, November 12, 2008Posted in: AztecLady Reviews, Azteclady Speaks
Tags:Black Dagger Brotherhood, J.R Ward
See, I caved and bought the recently released J. R. Ward‘s Black Dagger Brotherhood Insider’s Guide. After going through the 467 pages, I spent some time doing the “head desk” dance.
I don’t know about anyone else, but for a US$15 sticker price, I really expected something more… different… new.
Live and learn, of course—fully 200 pages are either excerpts from the six books already out, or available through the online forums.
Out of the other 270 pages, only the first 80 are truly new reader content—a novella length add-on to Zsadist’s story. (And may I rant a bit about the lack of internal consistency in it? First we are told vampire pregnancy lasts eighteen months, then that Bella is on her ninth month, then that she has seven more months to go. Hello, math? We are told it’s been two months since the birth, then another character says it’s been three—in the same night. Huh? Yes, these things annoy me. Unreasonably so. And your point would be?)
Okay, there are also 25 pages of deleted scenes from several of the published books, ten pages of writerly advice, and (for some reason that escapes me) a copy of the original proposal for Dark Lover, first title in the series.
All the rest? a mix of irrelevant trivia (seriously, do we care what color is each character’s favorite?) and ‘character interviews’ that don’t actually answer any pertinent questions, but mostly regurgitate stuff from the books and/or the boards, with a bit about what the author intended with plot and characterization for each book—with me often disagreeing with the degree of success she achieved, but that’s neither here nor there, really.
I guess that this, going by page number vis a vis price, it’s no worse than buying an anthology for the one story out of four or five, and in that sense, I should just chalk it up to my idiocy and move on.
If I did that, though, the mature thing? I wouldn’t have cause to post on the topic, and I dearly want to post, so here I am, posting.
See, I’m quite irked by the repetition of inconsistencies claiming they aren’t inconsistencies; by the constant “more on that later” in every chapter I read—but no clue as to when or where that more would come, and finally, by the inclusion of questions (not just in the pitiful Q&A at the end either) by readers only to reply with a gleeful “oh yes, that; that’s a funny/interesting/important story… perhaps I’ll tell you some time.”
Still, I could try to pretend to be mature and shrug that off, but then there’s the stuff that actually freaked me out: the insistence—which I had seen before in the forums—that the characters actually exist and interact with the author just in the manner she describes. The whole, “Any inconsistencies are because I misinterpreted what I’m shown”…
Huh… shown? Yes
By whom again? Why, the characters.
Erm… schizophrenia much? *crickets*
Sorry, freaky.
Don’t get me wrong—I have enjoyed several of these fictional interviews between creator and character, some more than others. Personally, I think that the ones by Suzanne Brockmann are the best examples of these.
Thing is, while reading those I never get the not-all-here vibe I get from the ones by Ward.
Obviously, this is my problem, not hers, but there it is.
Now, beyond that bit of weirdness, and the many many many many complaints I have with the world building and characterizations and I’ll stop there now… beyond all that, this shit is addictive.
So if you hear of me getting anywhere near ready to buy the next book—which hello, hardback prices?—please be kind enough to remind me how much it hurts to hit one’s forehead to a solid wooden table for half an hour.
Thank you.
Elf
November 12
8:06 am
Thank you – very interesting review!
Your final comments kind of jive with a thought I had, regarding the relative weakness of the heroines in the BDB universe: JRW doesn’t want the competition?
Hmmm…
Kat
November 12
9:24 am
That pretty much sums up why I don’t plan on buying this book, although I’ll probably cave and buy the next book in hardcover (Rehv!). Personally, I don’t feel that there’s been enough world building in the series to justify this book. And as for her method… I’ve always thought it’s a crazy way to write a series (and crazy to read, too).
Willa
November 12
9:55 am
When I saw this was coming out I have to confess to thinking it was a cynical marketing attempt to placate the fans over the wait between the transition from hardcover to paperback and yes, garner some more cash. A wait made even longer if you, for whatever reason, choose to wait for the paperback. After reading your review I haven’t changed my mind!
This series seriously bombed for me with Lover Unbound – no need to hold another post mortem on that one! It certainly cured me of my addiction to these books.
Now where is my latest Nalini Singh? 😀
queenbeetrainer
November 12
11:51 am
You and everyone else who read the Compendium, AztecLady. One kind blogger was kind enough to post some spoiler/hilights for those of us who refused to buy the book, but you just re-enforced that we’re really not missing much. Unfortunately, I love Rehv so I’m putting up the $ for his book, but if the writing and editing turns out to be as inconsistent as the past few books JRW books will be “renters” for me.
jmc
November 12
1:22 pm
I borrowed this from the library, as I decided that Lover Enshrined would be the last book I bought. Glad I didn’t waste the money, because I’d’ve been quite peeved to shell out $15 for “excerpts” of information that was literally cut and pasted from Ward’s website.
The lame “misinterpreted what I’m shown” crap is just another way of trying to wiggle out of her inconsistent world building. Or her seeming willingness to explode her world’s mythology in order to expedite a story line. Whichever.
katiebabs
November 12
1:57 pm
This bible is a JR Ward crack fan’s wet dream. I found the short story Father Mine great even though going through all the info a bit tedious because I have a ton of other books to read. I guess this is a good thing to have if you are lost and need to look something up about a character or a situation.
Randi
November 12
2:52 pm
Hmmmm. Sounds like LKH. I gave up LKH several books ago and couldn’t get past the second Ward book, but I hear your pain. I’m feeling that way about Karen Marie Moning. These $20 some hardbacks that are, essentially, a short story, are really pissing me off. So much so, that I might have to drop her as an auto-buy. If you can’t give me 400+pages in a hardback, forget it. Something authors need to think about: in a recession/depression, make your books WORTH the price of admission, otherwise you aren’t going to make any money. Well actually, that should be a general rule, not just during economic downturns…
Pure Wabash
November 12
3:12 pm
Bottom line for this is that Where Kenyon’s books deserved a bible, Ward is trying to cash in on that hype. Do I think the BDB deserved a bible? Not a chance. Why? Because she doesn’t give anything away. That in itself warrants a more thought out book, with better hinting, not a “bible” of crap you could compile yourself if you did a bit of research, though I understand that many of her fans already knew all this.
I wont be buying the next book,nor did I buy the last. Lemme tell you PBS is the best invention on earth. I’m not a rabid fan, and don’t plan on ever being one. So much in her series gets me angry, and putting out a bible of stuff that is largely found online is just money hungry. and the content she has out that you cant find online? I think it just warrants an e book. At least that would have been cheaper and not make you smack your head against the desk.
But do I think shes a bit nutty? Ooh yeah. get the fruitcake out to compare.
Lori
November 12
3:44 pm
Hahaha!!!! I’m laughing because I have managed to escape the entire BDB phenomena. By the skin of my teeth.
mrsrony
November 12
4:08 pm
Now see…I am an addict but i keep hoping self awarenes the 1st step to recovery. Yet I continue to buy knowing Im gonna be pissed and have been since Butch.
I do think this was a gimmick to tie us over so she could redo or try and fix her crap. I dont buy shes crazy. I think she pretends to be crazy. She was a lawyer and she is educated. She can be a brilliant writer and she is a bad ass marketing wench….who doesn’t want to own up to her shit. Only when it comes to something she doesn’t want to deal with…race, sexuality or whatever her buttons are then she comes out with the ‘I can only do what they tell me’ crap.
Anne
November 12
4:14 pm
This bible is a JR Ward crack fan’s wet dream– this made me howl..
and yes I am an addict. I bought this and kind of wish I didn’t. I liked it because it helped me remember some character stuff but the part with the message board made me want to rip out all my hair…I will buy ReHv’s book because I love him but if its disappointing I will be checking into rehab..
Jess
November 12
4:28 pm
I though that Ward was coming out with a companion book so early in the series because of all the inconsistancies. Now you tell me that she doesn’t even address them, and I’m glad I didn’t pick it up. What’s the point of having a glossary book if you use that space to say “maybe I’ll tell you later”?
Phury’s book killed my addiction, and I’ve been able to quit cold turkey. I have no desire to see how Rehv’s story goes because what I’ve seen of him so far has been all over the place.
I enjoyed Kenyon’s companion book because I felt it not only consolodated a lot of information from the site and glossary chapters in the book, but it actually added new info.
Randi
November 12
4:34 pm
Jess, is that true about Kenyon’s companion book? I have to admit to being about 3 books behind, because I wasn’t sure if I was liking where she was going. Her heroines were becoming TSTL and her love stories covered about a week-both things that bug the ever living crap out of me. Did she rebound or should I just stay away?
Holly
November 12
7:08 pm
I am a former Ward addict who is now fully recovered. It’s been three books since my last hit and I can tell you now – I’ll never go back. I know you hear addicts say that all the time, but in my case it’s true. No desire.
I am really saddened by this release, though. $15 is a lot of money to spend on any book, but a book full of excerpts and other information you could find elsewhere? That just screams ripoff to me.
It’s ok, AL, admitting your addiction is the first step to recovery. *g*
Jess
November 12
11:24 pm
Well, Randi, her heroines did become too stupid to live, however I was totally hanging on for the Acheron book. Which I loved. The first part about his past got really repetitive, but I liked finally reading his HEA.
The series will probably be library-only from this point out, but I will keep reading it because I love it. I know there are a LOT of the same complaints for both Ward and Kenyon. I guess the Dark-Hunter crack just clicked with me more than the Brotherhood chrahck. 🙂
Alexandra
November 12
11:36 pm
I quit on the third book of JRW’s series (I think because she killed off the wife of one of the guys–I can’t remember anymore), and it doesn’t seem like I’ve missed much. I am tempted to go get Acheron’s book, though, since I still like that character even after I gave up on *those* books. It would have to wait for paperback, though.
theo
November 13
1:24 am
I crashed and burned with V’s book. Casper as an HEA? Um…I don’t think so!!
I was willing to put up with the inconsistencies to that point because I *ducks* loved Butch’s book best. That said, a dom who goes milquetoast in 24 hours? Two books admittedly edited by her board fans? Both touted as romance and out of 400+ pages, barely 100 in each were sort of, in a small way, devoted to any kind of relationship.
But the one that got me most of all was the excerpt I got from Phury’s…when they’re talking about the vampire penile system…should have been penal, but then again, maybe the brothers and she were sharing an inside joke. Either that or her board member editors need a better education in English….
Needless to say, there won’t be anymore BDB books here.
Alisha Rai
November 13
1:48 am
I was moderately cured when I realized each book was turning into a tool to introduce new future H/H. I felt like LE was just “Phury I lurv you!” “I lurv you too, Cormia…have I introduced you to these three super hot new brothers?” “Are they hiding behind that angel?”
I never liked Rev, so no danger of me shelling out big bucks. When Quinn comes along, I might pick it up again, though. No one can say Ward isn’t a solid writer. I liked Father Mine but I was able to read the whole thing leaning against the table of new releases at BN. Totally agree, this should have been an e-book, or maybe a small paperback novella. When I skimmed the rest and realized it was all from the messageboards, with thuds and squees omitted, I put it back down. Not my cup of tea.
Ann M.
November 13
3:39 am
I purchased the book but haven’t gotten into reading it yet. I understand the short story is wonderful.
I get so depressed now when authors I enjoy sell well enough they print in hb first.
Elf
November 13
12:40 pm
Theo:
talking about the vampire penile system…
Huh?! (she says with exclamation marks)!! Do I dare ask what the prevailing BDB theory is on that? I really don’t want to have to read Phury’s book (I swore off the Bhrohtherhhood the book just before) in order to get the joke…
*sad face*
theo
November 13
1:10 pm
Elf, it was in one of the excerpts I got. IIRC, they were talking about the fact that Phury, as an addict would end up in the Vampire penile system, or they needed a vampire penile system. It’s been quite awhile now and I’ve tried to scrub my brain of most of the…stuff…I did read. But when I asked the sender, jokingly, if she was wishing, she said nope, that’s how it’s spelled.
Since I couldn’t bring myself to read the whole book, I borrowed it from the library but took it back after skimming it because I didn’t think they’d appreciate what happens after it hits the wall.
In later discussions on the amazing amount of dissatisfied fan posts on Amazon (of which, I admit, I am one!) there was a discussion on that very thing. That’s when it was brought up that several of her boardies edited Phury’s book for her. I never hung there much. The SOLs were waaaaaaay too creepy for me! That and when I asked a question, my post was deleted and I was reprimanded because I didn’t squee…
Unfortunately, Amazon is light-years behind in the way their discussion threads are set up and there’s no way to search them without doing it manually, in which case, your head would probably explode.
But no, I’m quite sure it really wasn’t a joke. Just too terrible editing by her fanbase, of which I am gladly, no more.
And the really sad part of all of this for me is, her characterizations were good enough to keep me coming back for more…rather like that crack. You know it’s not good for you but you just can’t stop. But when Casper went flying across the room, that was my cold-turkey moment.
*sigh*
Elf
November 13
2:05 pm
Theo – OMG… I thought you were making the joke about penal/penile! HA! Whoopsie. Yeah, won’t go looking for that – I tried to read the BDB boards once, and ran squealing… in fear. I’ll read a few LKH posts before I’ll go back to that board, I swear.
Thanks for the insight lol!
(And I hear you about the Caspar moment… I think I lost IQ points due to skyrocketing blood pressure at the end of that book.)
theo
November 13
2:28 pm
Elf, unfortunately, I wish I was making a joke.
The thing that bothered me most of all about the last two books, and I’ve said this other places, they were marketed, promoted on her board and also in emails seemingly written by her (uh huh) and also on the online bookshelves as Romance. I bought V’s book expecting that. What I got was Urban Fantasy with so little romance as to not even qualify as carrying that anywhere in the description.
I felt like I’d been betrayed by an author I’d really enjoyed reading, who couldn’t just let her fans know she was no longer writing one genre and had switched mid-stream in her series to something different.
Had she been honest, I might not have read V’s book, I surely wouldn’t have even been concerned with Phury’s, but I’d have not lost my respect for her either.
Jess
November 13
6:27 pm
Theo, did she really let the fans on her boards edit the last book? That seems extremely unprofessional to me.
V’s book was where it all really fell apart for me too. First, I hated that she dropped the infinitely more interesting V/Butch relationship and then stuck us with a ghosty HEA.
It was completely unnecessary! And it was SOOOOO awkward.
theo
November 13
6:41 pm
Yeah, one of her comments in a video interview is how people love her books because they’re so ‘cutting edge’. She must think then the whole m/m thing’s been done to death and sex with a ghost would be the next cutting edge thing. Except I think that one’s been done. Countless times. 😉 Except in those cases, the ghost started as one, he/she didn’t end up that way!
I do know some of her more vocal, ‘under her wing’ board members were glorying in their comments that either they had a part in editing or they gave her ideas that she supposedly used.
I just can’t visit her board anymore. I didn’t much before V’s book and only did after when I was sent those links to the bragging.
Don’t forget though, she doesn’t write them in the first place. She’s just the steno for the brothers, one of which hates her which is a real eye roller for me!
rebyj
November 13
7:42 pm
*waves* I was directed to this review by Randi over at Dear Author. I have been considering buying this book . After yelling ” Who the F is Lassiter?” when reading Lover Enshrined I figured I’d need a reference book for the next book’s surprise additions.
I bitch about these books more than any I’ve ever read but like Azteclady, I always add the “beyond all that, this shit is addictive” disclaimer.
and LOL at the “crickets” hahahaha
Shiloh Walker
November 13
7:46 pm
This is kind of off on a tangent (who…me, going on a tangent????)
But…
It’s really not an idea that’s outside of the realm of possibility for a writer to feel like a ‘stenographer’ of sorts for characters. Very often, I am telling a story just as it’s played out in my head.
I’ve woken up to hear actual dialogue between characters going through my head and images rolling like a movie reel.
Not on all of my books, but I can tell you, the books where the images and dialogue flow like THAT? They tend to be the books that come the easiest.
And another tangent… *G*… can’t remember where I read it, but I vaguely recall reading how there is some marked similarities between the minds of some writers and some diagnosed schizophrenics. Something about the brain patterns or something, can’t recall. 😉
I know it’s hard to explain it to a non-writer, but there are a lot of writers who ‘hear’ or ‘see’ a story and it’s like the writer is there just to take notes and stuff.
edited, typos, etc
theo
November 13
7:54 pm
Shiloh, I have a quote pertaining to that on my site:
**There are only two groups of people in this world that hear voices in their heads-schizophrenics and writers…and sometimes, the line between the two is VERY thin.**
And I’m not discounting the steno thing however, this is a writer who takes no responsibility whatsoever for any plot holes (which just keep getting bigger as the series continues) and also claims she has no control at all over the brothers and what they tell her to write. That any plot holes or deviations in storyline, any inconsistencies, they’re all the brother’s fault and she just can’t do anything about it.
I write. I do that too, close my eyes, watch the movie play out ‘in front of me’ and just type what I see as a first draft. But if it’s not working, I don’t just let it go and blame my characters, claiming I can’t do a thing about it. Ultimately, it’s still my story. And I really can do something about plot holes and things like that. It’s called editing, and not by a fan base.
I loved the first four. Enough that I’ve worn out one set I’ve read them so many times. But the two newest are…just not my style, I guess. I just wish, like I said, I’d known she was doing a 180 on her genre before I spent any more of my life reading them.
AztecLady
November 13
8:08 pm
Shiloh, I’ve been interacting with a number of writers for the past three years or so, and I believe I get your point. And I admit that I’m harsher on Ward than I am on other writers, probably because while most other writers own their missteps, Ward blames it on the characters.
Which uhmm… crosses that line theo mentioned above.
Look, the woman can write incredibly addictive stuff, there’s no denying that, but I find the lame excuses over shitty worldbuilding annoying as hell. And if she truly believes what she’s saying about “being shown” stuff by some fictional peeps… well, I go back to crossing that line into not-all-here.
(And tangents are nice)
rebyj, welcome!
Wanna know something funny? I didn’t think I was reviewing, just ranting 😛
theo
November 13
8:14 pm
Hi, rebyj, sorry, that was not nice of me *sigh* I have no excuse either.
AztecLady, sometimes a rant and review are sisters in arms 😀
I sure found it interesting! Thanks!
Shiloh Walker
November 13
8:58 pm
Theo, I love the quote. Hmmmm… I wonder if I can get it framed and mounted over my desk.
Shiloh Walker
November 13
9:05 pm
Aztec…lol… I get shown stuff all the time by fictional peeps. However, I can attest, with great pride, I am not all here.
😉
Robin
November 13
9:32 pm
If, as an author, your characters are telling you stuff that’s totally illogical and will cripple your world building, maybe *they’re* schizophrenic and need some immediate intervention, not a longer narrative leash. 😉
theo
November 13
10:07 pm
Shiloh, that’s exactly where mine hangs. To remind me all the time how closely I toe that line 😉
rebyj
November 13
11:53 pm
QUOTE: “Wanna know something funny? I didn’t think I was reviewing, just ranting!”
Rants and raves are the best kind of review!
BevQB
November 14
12:47 am
I admit that I bought this one just because I wanted to find out all the Sooper Seekret stuff that the Cellies already knew. You know, like hoodafuk is Lassiter? Because he was written like we should recognize him, but I thought he’d just fallen through one of the swiss cheese holes in my brain. Until I found out that only the board members knew him, which irked me that Ward was writing for her uber fans.
I also lost interest in Kenyon when her writing began to only make sense to her fans that digested her every word.
Shimmer-a-rink87
November 14
1:44 am
Hey all! Long time reader, first time poster! 8-D You know, I always wanted to get in on the discussions about the BDB on Amazon and stuff but because I live in the UK, and only buy books from Amazon UK, it won’t let me post!
*sigh* Anyway, firstly I’ll admit I’m still an addict, though I’m dissapointed about the romance side, I can look past any flaws in the world-building and still totally emerse myself in the World. And John is my fav character so… (lol). {Yea, John fans totally SCORE in the books xD}
What irks me about the “Guide” is, as you were saying, that nothing really gets answered. Like, the character in the character interviews? A lot of the Brothers were like, “Uh, can’t tell you *that*… that’s P.R.I.V.A.T.E!” or “Only my shellan knows that, and WILL ever know that so… basically stop asking.” And some weren’t even interviews at all, they were just her sitting with them. Yea, I get it, everybody’s happy and love each other and hate those frickin lessers… but what do I LEARN, that’s, like, TOTALLY *new*? OK, we learn a BIT but… I don’t think it justifies the pricetag to be honest.
Finally there’s no other place I can say this, I guess, so I GOTTA say it here cause it’s been driving me crazy! V hates J.R. Ward, apparantly. Many people have asked why, but she says it’s between him and her, which is fair enough. But why mention it ovvvveeeeer and ooovvveeeerrr then? It’s in the Guide’s “On Writing LU section”, her “interviewing” him, the interview the brothers did on *her*, A LOT on the Boards, and on some Blogs… Maybe it’s so fans forgive her for V? (Though I like it but understand the dissappointment.) I just don’t get it…
Anyway, rant over! *blushes* oooo, a lot went down in my first ever post! Thanks for reading ^_~
**Newcastle, England**
Karen Scott
November 14
3:36 pm
HiShimmer, welcome! Funnily enough I was in Newcastle last week, horrid drive it was, with all the roadworks on the A1.
I still like the BDB books, but that’s probably because I often read them with very low expectations.
I’m looking forward to John’s book, I’m a real fan of his, and I hope that he isn’t unrecognisable by the time Ward tells his story.