There Are Just Some Things Authors Shouldn’t Say To Readers In Public…
Tuesday, July 7, 2009Posted in: Author should not read without a bottle of Jack Daniels, Authors behaving like twits, e-book authors posting under the influence, e-pubbed authors behaving like fucktards?
Calling a reader white trash is one of them.
Surely that’s something anybody with half a brain cell would know?
Origianlly, I wasn’t going to do a blog post on this, because I didn’t want to cause Trista Ann Michaels (Hey Trista, I linked to your page on Loose Id and everything, isn’t that great?) grief, but then I took my head out of my arse, and remembered that this isn’t a blog known for its restraint.
Might as well live by the Mean Girl code, yes?
Anyway, where was I? Yeah that’s right, here’s a really good example of what not to write on a reader blog:
I saw a link to this in my email and have been following it. It’s like a train wreck. You just can’t stop looking.
First of all, I would like to say thank you, since my book, Deadly Crimson, was one of the books you lumped into the whole m/m debate. Let me make perfectly clear, it’s not m/m, but m/f/m with no m/m interaction but this debate and interest, at least I’m hoping anyway, will increase sales and traffic and turn an already 5 figure monthly royalties into an even bigger check. So kuddos to Karen for that one.
As to her responses, though. They’re not funny or entertaining. They’re rude, classless and unbelievably white trash. Alot of people read this blog, even me on occassion. Is that really the image you want? I read that and I can clearly see in my mind some drunk out of her mind bimbo shouting trash in some backwoods bar because some other bimbo touched her man. Imagine what some professional editor might think?
It’s a shame that apparently a lack of a resonable rebuttle escaped you and you had to resort to four letter words and name calling. My two cents on the subject. Now I suppose I’ll go back into lurkdum and wait patiently for the white trash beatdown that is sure to come.
Knock yourself out.
My first feeling when I read her comment was one of confusion, who was she? Then I remembered that she was an author who I may have even read in the past. My second feeling was delight, because quite frankly it’s been a while since an author did anything so blogworthy, although I must admit, her comments were so random, one couldn’t help but wonder if she’d overdosed on coffee or something.
My cynical self naturally assumed it was an elaborate ruse to get her book mentioned on the thread. She says otherwise, but seeing as nobody mentioned either her, or her book by name, I’m not sure I believe her.
Listen, I don’t really have a problem with Trista calling me white trash, in fact it amused me a whole lot, in the way that a terrorist who was bequeathed an exocet missile would be amused.
For me, this is just blog fodder. It also means that I have a new name to add to my Authors Behaving Badly list. Unfortunate that.
Regardless of whether or not the charge was true – the fact that she called a reader, white trash, reflects badly on her as an author. And, when you’re an author who is e-published, it makes things even dicier. It may be unfair, but she’s been around long enough to know that slagging off readers in public is just not cricket.
Yes, there are double standards involved in the author/reader relationship, but that’s just a fact that authors have to adjust to, I think.
Anyway, I don’t think Treva, her publisher at Loose Id, had sent her the polite email note telling her to cease and desist at this point, (all assumptions on my part of course) because she came back, after my lengthy and may I say, restrained reponse:
Well, at least you read my correction before responding just like i knew you would. I wasn’t lying, I hit the wrong key, let’s make sure we get that point straight.
Also, I wasn’t plugging my book. I was correcting an incorrect assumption. My book isn’t m/m and I don’t want people thinking it is.
I can assure you, I know just as much about cosmo bars as I do backwoods bars. Where ever I am, I know how to act like a lady. Location doesn’t make you, your attitude and behavior does. What does your attitude and behavior say about you?
I’m sure you’re proud of you behavior. I’m sure you’re patting yourself on the back and you’ll respond, why yes I am. Good for you.
Just remember, what goes around comes around. I posted to correct a wrong and caution you on your behavior and responses because I see what people are posting about you.
It’s just a shame your nose is too high in the air for you to see it. Watch out for that rain.
The irony of her trying to caution me on my behaviour wasn’t lost on me.
Isn’t it funny though, how the people who claim to be the most lady-like, and well-mannered, always seem to be the ones who are quickest to dive into the gutter and start slinging shit around?
UPDATED TO ADD
(Just noticed that out of the four books displayed at the top of the Loose Id’s home page, three of them are MM, and that on the Coming Soon page as of 7th July 09, out of the book covers you can see, 2 of the books are het, 1 is an MMF, 1 is an MFM, and 5 are MMs.
Nope, not seemingly leaning towards MM at all. *g*)
Amarinda Jones
July 7
10:26 am
It does all sound a bit like shooting oneself in the foot and no author should ever take readers for granted.
KristieJ
July 7
11:38 am
Oh Karen – you make me laugh. I didn`t jump in `cause I don`t read ebooks. I didn`t follow all the comments on that post so I missed Ms. Michaels comment. But I just went back and read them and some sure did try to give you lumps but once again you stood up to them in a most hilarious way. As for Trista – wow – what a totally idiotic thing to do. When, oh when will SOME authors learn to sit on their hands before hitting that submit comment button. I was most impressed with Treva`s responses – a publisher who knows how to be tactful and can discuss a subject reasonably and calmly. To bad that particular author didn`t.
Edie
July 7
12:16 pm
Lol was just popping back to see if you had noticed that the Loose ID had three out of the four this week.. But see you caught it.
Mireya
July 7
3:09 pm
Karen, her book was mentioned, by title, in the original thread that started her tirade. Lynne Connolly brought it up, not mentioning the author’s name though.
This is the text of Lynne Connolly’s:
>>>”“Now of course I know that they do publish heterosexual romances, but I happened to surf over there on Sunday, and every single release was an M/M book. Two words: Nail and coffin.”
Just went back and checked. Not true Actually last week’s releases, namely “Cage Match,” “Deadly Crimson,” “Hell Cop 2? and “Lilac,” are two m/m’s and 2 m/f’s. One, the historical, has a woman in lilac dress front and centre.<<<
It’s at the top, that is why it pretty much got “lost”.
Anyway, the reaction was quite over the top over that one comment, which was the isolated instance in which her book was mentioned.
Mari Janssen
July 7
4:17 pm
>>>It also means that I have a new name to add to my Authors Behaving Badly list.<<<
Did you include Ellen Ashe in that list?
Karen Scott
July 7
4:17 pm
Mireya talk about total over-reaction in that case. You’d think that she would have directed her anger at Lynne Connolly then, seeing as the mention came from her.
I must admit, my eyes must have glazed over at that point, because I totally missed the reference. I wonder if she was secretly annoyed that nobody seemed to notice?
Karen Scott
July 7
4:19 pm
@Mari What did Ellen Ashe do?
Mari Janssen
July 7
4:40 pm
I have two books at NCP (under another name) and because of her, I (and dozens of other innocent and hardworking NCP authors) was caught in the mudslinging and backlash of Ashe’s personal vendetta against the company. As a result I know ALL NCP authors lost sales. I didn’t dare submit my third book to NCP even though they were always great with me because I didn’t want it boycotted as you have here on your blog.
Trace
July 7
4:46 pm
Will not buy books from Angelia Sparrow either. Is Pearl Crosby an author?
Mireya
July 7
5:32 pm
@Karen: That was exactly what I thought. I suspect she misinterpreted the intent of your blog article (as some others did), and then saw the title of her book in a comment, and she pretty much went ballistic. It’s obvious she wasn’t thinking.
@Mari: I am sorry to hear that, but don’t you think that the way NCP reacted to Ashe’s requests was unprofessional and that, in hindsight, you and the others may be better off in a place where the owners react in a professional manner? The mud slinging went both ways, and the backlash and subsequent semi-boycott (not everyone stopped buying books there) was caused because of a case of “publisher behaving badly”. They are still behaving like asshats i.e. public notices divulging authors’ real names when the rights revert? That’s unnacceptable and NCP is penalizing ALL of the remaining authors over the actions of one author that is not even there anymore. Why are they doing this? To intimidate others still under contract there. I am sorry, but frankly, that, would be considered very close to a case of “hostile environment” in any other business.
che
July 7
7:12 pm
catching up after a one week vacation back home in fla where i broke wrist in my dominant hand, hence no caps.
read previous post re loose id. still laughing over white trash remark. all i can say abt trish is a wise man once said to me, when you point your finger at someone, u have 3 fingers pointing right back at u. project much?
Mari Janssen
July 7
7:34 pm
>>>The mud slinging went both ways, and the backlash and subsequent semi-boycott (not everyone stopped buying books there) was caused because of a case of “publisher behaving badly”. <<<
Oh, I agree both behaved badly. My grandma raised me and she drummed it into my head that two wrongs don’t make a right. I asked one of the NCP owners why they put the public notices up and she told me it was her lawyer who insisted it be done and the ‘real’ names added so there would be no mistake. Was that right? No, I don’t think so. I think both parties let the situation get out of hand. I do know a lot of authors (both NCP and others) have held Ellen up as an example of what not to do, now not to act, if you want to have a career in this business. I took that lesson to heart. Airing your grievances in public might come back to haunt you.
Mireya
July 7
7:44 pm
@Mari: Sadly, that is the truth. I hope you find good publishers that give you the professional respect you deserve.
Mireya
July 7
10:09 pm
I want to address this separately:
>>I asked one of the NCP owners why they put the public notices up and she told me it was her lawyer who insisted it be done and the ‘real’ names added so there would be no mistake.<<
I’ve been working in litigation for 21 years, 10 years in Puerto Rico, dealing there with Local and Federal law. 11 years in NY. Dealing with local and federal law. I seriously doubt they were told to give notice in public. That they use the real names, certainly. The public bit however, sounds more like an “extra” added by the publisher. Certified mail return receipt requested and even an email with read receipt confirmation depending on state law, are accepted methods by many courts as proof of service of any sort. There is no need AT ALL to divulge real names like that.
Mari Janssen
July 7
10:26 pm
I agree. That sort of added insult to injury but I look at it like I do my seven-yo twin girls when they get into a squabble. One child ups the ante and the other looks for ways to up hers (no pun intended: )) As I said, the feud got out of hand and both parties acted like juveniles. The problem was, it hurt more people, had far reaching implications that I think either one intended.
Denyse Bridger
July 8
1:23 am
Just jumping in to comment on the NCP discussion. I’ve had ONE book with them, and while my dealings were relatively smooth and without incident, the way they handled EVERYTHING to do with returning rights and the outbursts that were the height of non-professional behaviour – I wouldn’t give them another word under any name. If anyone was privy to the list that was authors only back then, you have to admit, some outlandish things were said by the owners and little of their arguments made sense, let alone sounded remotely “legal” in context. And there are those of us who have been taken off the site completely, but will not have book rights returned until contracts expire – which makes as much sense as anything else they’ve done this past year…. Ellen Ashe showed tremendous courage and character to stand up to their bullying, and I for one applaud her for that determination to get back what was hers anyway… No one has the right to hold any author’s work hostage while they mud-sling with said author in public venues, and NCP management had no qualms at all about taking it public.
It’s a shame innocent authors got the shaft as a result of this dispute, but had it been handled by NCP staff in a rational manner, there would have been no complaint. If you do question it, check out Piers Anthony…. there were loads of complaints and problems logged long before Ms. Ashe went to war with them. I’m just glad she won…. she fought for everyone who wouldn’t or couldn’t, and she should be applauded for it!
Just my two cents worth….
Denysé Bridger
Mari Janssen
July 8
2:49 am
Not everyone feels as you do, Denysé, but that’s what makes us what we are. You are entitled to your two cents worth. There were grievous mistakes made by both parties but Ellen was the first to throw the mud pies that landed on all the rest of us. No one asked her to fight their battles for them. Retaliation is a harsh thing when innocents get caught in the crossfire. What you see as courage, others might see as vindictiveness. I, for one, didn’t appreciate what she did but that is just *my* two cents worth.
Shiloh Walker
July 8
3:04 am
I’m thinking never…
Nonny
July 8
3:15 am
@Mari:
Sorry, but some of the things that NCP did were absolutely unacceptable. There was no reason for publishing authors’ names publicly, along with many other things they did.
Considering that KKB was the primary blog reporting the NCP meltdown, I really doubt you’re likely to get much support for them here.
Mari Janssen
July 8
3:36 am
>>>>I really doubt you’re likely to get much support for them here.<<<<
I wasn’t asking for support for NCP. They’re grown and can fight their own battles. I just think Ellen behaved very badly, cast other authors in a very bad light, and people not even involved in the problem were hurt by her actions.
Now I’ll shut up before someone starts twisting my words around again. 😉
Karen Scott
July 8
7:08 am
I actually think that Ellen Ashe took the best action that she could. She went public. Had she not, the crazy folks at NCP would have kept on shafting her and many others.
I get that some people may have been hurt in the cross-fire, but I don’t think Ellen was to blame for that. Madris and crew are the type of people you couldn’t trust as far as you could throw them.
They were the ones in the wrong, not Ellen, and I would be disappointed to learn that there are those out there who would have just preferred her to shut the fuck up and not rock the boat.
@Mari Had this been a fair fight, for example, between two publishers, or between two authors, then I might agree with your position, but this was not a fair fight. This was a David and Goliath battle, where the publisher had all the weapons, and were using them to the full extent against one author.
I hate the ‘You must not rock the boat’ kind of thinking with a passion. NCP were not treating their authors right, and blaming Ellen for having the courage to put herself on the line, instead of looking at the real problem, is how unscrupulous bitches like Madris et al get away with such bad behaviour.
Madris and her crazy gang wholly deserved the bad press they got.
For those not familiar with the story, put NCP or New Concepts Publishing in the search bar, and you’ll get a taste of how badly they behaved.
Shiloh Walker
July 8
2:16 pm
I’d have to agree with Nonny and Karen. Ellen had a hard choice to make, but staying silent would have only ended up hurting her more in the end, and leaving a number of other authors uninformed of the less than professional things taking place at NCP.
I don’t think it was easy for her to do what she did, and I imagine she knew she’d have a lot of flak for it.
Now I’m not going back and reading through it, but from what I remember, her rights as an author were being trampled on-heavily. That’s an injustice.
Staying silent over injustice is no way to overcome it.
What Ellen did wasn’t casting a bad light other authors-did it have bad effects on other authors? Yes, but that’s not casting a bad light.
NCP was responsible. IMO, they had acted unethically and there was just no way around that. I’m sorry other authors suffer for it, but I wouldn’t give my money to an unethical business. That’s what it boiled down to, for me, and probably many others.
It’s on them-it’s not on Ellen. I’m sorry you can’t see it that way.
Roslyn Holcomb
July 8
3:33 pm
I had to do the same thing to an unethical publisher. It was either remain silent, get screwed and continue to let them screw over others, or speak up. Unfortunately, it didn’t result in a boycott, but apparently they changed their practices and actually STARTED PAYING THEIR AUTHORS. Or at least so it would appear.
Roslyn Holcomb
July 8
5:08 pm
Oh, and perhaps, just perhaps if some of the authors they’d ripped off over the more than ten years that they continued this practice had spoken up, maybe a lot fewer people would’ve been hurt.
anonymous
July 8
7:31 pm
How fortunate for Trista that the conversation got derailed so quickly… perhaps no one will remember how badly she behaved.
Nonny
July 8
7:47 pm
Doubtful, anon. I think most people will read the original post and not the comments.
(edited because I have obviously not had enough caffeine this morning and didn’t realize which thread I was posting to. OOPS.)
Mireya
July 8
8:01 pm
Somehow, I doubt it. Specially when there are search engines available.
Anion
July 8
8:17 pm
Oh, I won’t forget, but then, I’m not surprised either. Trista was one of the Triskelion authors who insisted that anybody who tried to go public with their problems with the company were just vicious losers who couldn’t take editing and were seeking revenge, too.
Anya Howard
July 8
9:15 pm
I think what Ellen did took courage. More than what can be said for any publisher who wants the freedom to browbeat authors on loops but damn anyone who lets the world know what’s really being said.
Lauren Dane
July 9
10:24 pm
On showing up at a blog and whipping up drama and hurling out insults – it seems less than wise to do so. Generally, what I find works best is stating an argument civilly and rationally. Or just clicking the “back” key. Certainly this is an open and free debate so people certainly have the right to weigh in if they choose. How it’s done is the key.
As for authors speaking out about industry issues: This IS a small business and people do get labeled as troublemakers and face issues trying to locate another publisher. When you’re trying to keep selling books and get career momentum it’s something we tend to be cautious about. Also, a lot of the time, private correspondence between the author and/or her agent and the publisher can solve way more than speaking publically. I do think there are however, times when you have no option but to speak out.
I understand why authors may feel conflicted about going public with problems. What I don’t understand, or condone, is the way some authors pile onto those who do come out and speak publically about troubles with a publisher. Blaming an author who spoke out for your low sales agitates me – mainly because it’s a preposterous claim, but also because it contributes to authors being afraid of being painted a troublemaker thus encouraging silence.
People are free to take that info and make logical deductions about it, but no one is going to tell me I can’t speak out when I don’t get PAID.
Shiloh Walker
July 10
3:29 am
What she said.
Blog Hopping | Monkey Bear Reviews
July 10
12:07 pm
[…] Scott’s post ‘There Are Just Some Things An Author Shouldn’t Say To Readers in Public…’ made me laugh. Apparently, an author referred to Karen as white trash! Not a smart move when you […]
Dorothy MacPherson
July 10
3:35 pm
Perhaps Trista should keep her mouth shut until she finds out what really went on when Ellen had so much trouble getting her rights to her book back. She should be sure of her facts before she makes any comments.
Ciar Cullen
July 15
4:09 pm
Wow, I just read this whole thread. I’m not sure why, cause I was lost in a few seconds. Anywho, this is an aside, I wrote a m/f book that released in June at LI. Shrug. Not a five figure book, for sure.
And I think it’s time we all get over Triskelion…petting my voodoo doll before I punch her.
Ghetto Diva
July 15
4:48 pm
Ellen Ashe did the right thing. I took the same stance she did with a publisher who would not pay me royalties. Ellen was 100% right.
And Trista? I’m actually surprised at her behavior. So they made one comment about her book. Big deal! By now she’s probably kicking herself for not keeping her mouth closed.
gessPekly
June 21
8:52 pm
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Large Community, regard all!