Gartonians? Seriously? Gartonians? Hahahahahahaha!!!!!
How very Lord of The Flies!
*Wipes tears from eyes*
Copyright © 2023 by Karen Scott. All rights reserved.
Gartonians? Seriously? Gartonians? Hahahahahahaha!!!!!
How very Lord of The Flies!
*Wipes tears from eyes*
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URL
Amarinda Jones
August 31
7:37 am
Pardon me for having a dyed-redhead moment here but I’m confused…what the hell’s a ‘Gartonian’?
kirsten saell
August 31
8:28 am
I’d assume they’re “followers” of Ray Garton, the dude who started the whole #romfailfail thing. While I detested #romfail (and #rrtheater, and the SB/DA liveblog thing, and engaged in the futility of saying so long before Ray came on the scene, thankyouverymuch, Karen, lol), the idea of “Gartonians” does make me giggle a little.
Michelle(mlg)
August 31
11:24 am
One stupid thing is that they keep saying bad behavior on twitter will keep authors from being published. Well if major publishers still publish known plagiarists I don’t see them slapping hands over twitter.
The guy is an idiot for using sexist insults. You can argue your point in other ways. I wonder if he is buds with that mystery author who supposedly gave up blogging due to DA (blanking on her name), or if it is just a publicity grab. There has to be a personal connection for a horror writer to get involved in a romance flamewar.
Tuscan Capo
August 31
1:05 pm
I’m still wondering what the hell is romfail and anti-romfail? My wife suggests it all has something to do with the recent recall of faulty cloaking devices manufactured by Romulan-owned sweat shops over in China, but something tells me this is probably not the case.
Edie
August 31
2:40 pm
I googled.. found this: A Gartonian is a being from the planet Gart.
And this:
http://twitter.com/Gartonians
areader
August 31
3:03 pm
@Michelle – publicity grab, really? Have you read the guy’s bio? I don’t think he’s the kind that needs to get publicity by picking a fight with a blogger and her followers. I don’t see why there has to be a personal connection, if you’re doing something on the net anyone can see you and they can comment. There’s no rule out there that says they can’t.
I’m a romance reader and I was more offended by some of those involved in romfail especially the authors than any sexist remarks that were made by this guy. Looks like he laid a trap and the romfail dudettes walked right into it, they can dish it out but they can’t take it. It would have been best just to ignore him rather than turning it into another big wank. And looking more and more unprofessional the longer it went on.
Michelle
August 31
4:45 pm
If you sink to the behavior you are arguing against, it doesn’t bode well. I don’t buy fight fire with fire. I still find it odd that a horror writer is wading into romanceland. Acting unprofessionally to punish others who are unprofessional seems silly to me, but to each their own.
I am not a participant of romfail/or antiromfail. I too am just a reader making observations. I mentioned publicity grab because he mentioned in one of the blog comments he had a movie coming out. I didn’t see what his movie coming out had to do with the topic so I thought that comment was a bit self serving.
Michelle
August 31
4:47 pm
Also if Romulans were involved, I think we would have found the bodies by now.
Shiloh Walker
August 31
4:51 pm
….huh? What in the heck are you all talking about?
che
August 31
5:00 pm
Gartonians=fangirls of Ray Garton, in light of the #romfail brouhaha, I presume.
Considering that Keta Diablo, the twit from the In praise of feminist smut post over in Romancing the Blog is apparently a Gartonian, just makes it seem like by association, they’re all a bunch of twits.
kirsten saell
August 31
6:24 pm
Uh, there were people questioning his credentials and his right to speak “as an author” since many in romanceland had never heard of him (me included).
There were plenty of things to dislike about #romfail, and you don’t have to be a twit to think some publishers might be leery of authors who participate. The authors who plagiarized and still have careers were authors who were raking it in for their pubs, and their pubs looked the other way. The newb or lower midlist author who engages in activity that might put off readers? Not so much, maybe.
P.S. I’m neither a Gartonian nor a Ja(y)nesian (nor a twit, thanks). Just an author with an opinion.
Tuscan Capo
August 31
7:54 pm
Thanks for info, ladies. I’m guess Gartonia is one of those planets not yet visited by the federation or otherwise enlightened civilization. Otherwise I think the Klingons would have acted swiftly to stifle complaints about feminist smut. Captain Kirk, on the other hand..yeah well we know all about him.
All joking aside, it’s just the opinion of one smug male author twitter, right? (twitter-er?) If he’s wanting attention he’s got it, but I doubt it will help sell his
crapbooks.Shiloh Walker
August 31
9:41 pm
Man, I really missed out on the fun because I have no idea what’s going on… anybody wanna save me the googling.
Kirsten, I understand where you’re coming from but unless the newbie author is doing some so massively, hugely, stupendously terrible that it’s guaranteed to land them smack in the middle of a nasty limelight, my two cents is the pubs aren’t going to care that much.
Unless of course you’re one of the ones who is constantly doing it and the pubs/editors get the impression you’re a pain in the butt…then they may decide you’re not worth it. Generally speaking, of course.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that whoever the Garnotians (sorry, that’s making me laugh like mad) are, they are giving the implication that participating in #romfail can cost an author their career…? Am I anywhere near right?
areader
August 31
10:44 pm
No, as far as I can tell from the twitter. Ray Garton is their high leader and they are doing his bidding. Not that he’s actually bid them to do anything you understand. Or has anything particularly to do with them. I don’t think they are particularly serious either. They say they’re a fan club for Garton.
kirsten saell
August 31
10:55 pm
Some background for you, Shiloh. #romfail is kind of like the SB/DA liveblogging events way back when–kind of a public twitter free-for-all turkey read.
Mostly, people either seem to love it or hate it. Ray Garton heard mention of it somewhere, checked it out, and showed himself to be “con”. Rather vehemently “con”. At which point, people jumped on him because as a horror author with no background in the romance community, they didn’t feel he had the right to tell them what to do. Which is certainly true–and in his defense, he didn’t tell them they had to stop, just that he thought author participation in such events was unprofessional.
And it may be that publishers don’t care–but this is a career author with a degree of success under his belt. If he says they care, even if I don’t totally buy it, I don’t know whether I’d feel comfortable continuing to participate in something that, while fun, could impact my own career.
Then again, I detest #romfail, so I’m not as attached to it as its participants might be.
I do think authors are entitled to say and do what they want online. All authors, that is. 🙂
joannef
August 31
10:55 pm
Being one of the apparently tiny minority of technologically clueless who don’t follow or use twitter, and have no desire to do so, could someone please explain to me what all the hubbub is?
Shiloh Walker
August 31
11:15 pm
okay. Gotcha, thanks Kirsten.
I don’t participate in #romfail because my personal decision not to discuss books or authors that I haven’t enjoyed. Not because I don’t think I’m entitled to my opinion, but because I see how it gets out of hand and it’s not worth the headache.
However, must say I have almost spewed on my computer screen during a few of the #romfail events. I always wander in at the wrong time
kirsten saell
August 31
11:38 pm
LOL, Shiloh. I have to admit, I’ve laughed a few times when a reviewer shreds a book–especially if they have a way with words that the author clearly does not. (I still go back and read Karen’s review of Ben’s Wildflower when I need a boost.)
That’s kind of the thing for me. The kind of “get together a crowd to point and laugh”, interactive nature of #romfail really bothers me, though I’m happy to just ignore it (unless my own work happens to be served up for collective #romfail amusement, in which case I’m not sure how I’ll react).
I only chimed in on some of the debate this time because #romfailers insisted Garton, not being a woman or a romance writer, just didn’t “get it”, which implied that romance authors do “get it”. And I (a romance author and a woman, last time I checked) so don’t “get it”.
Michelle
September 1
12:12 am
But Kirsten you have been able to explain quite well what you find wrong with it without hoping that the women weren’t mothers with children, or that they must be on the rag. I think some people are finding fault with the way he went about it, not denying him the right to an opinion. I don’t think everyone who found fault with R.G is one of the romfail participants. I am not part of that crowd (just don’t have the time), but his role has rubbed me the wrong way. I agree with Karen’s earlier post, I don’t think his sexist language has done him any credit even if others are cheering him on.
So you need to have a movie coming out to be a “real” author. Hmm didn’t realize having your books turned into movies makes you a better writer with more credence.
Mariana
September 1
1:05 am
As someone who is strictly a reader (and somewhat followed the hubbub, though I’m not on twitter), I could see RG’s point about author participation in the whole romfail thing. I also agree with Mrs. Giggles assessment.
One of the authors that was subjected to it wrote somewhere about how she felt when her book was up, and it made me sad for her. It also made me less likely to buy a book from an author that did participate.
This reminded me of the whole audition process for American Idol, when the producers deliberately allow performers that everyone knows will not be selected to be advanced; just so the judges can say all the negative stuff and the viewers could be “entertained”. I hate that whole process and don’t watch AI because of it, YMMV.
kirsten saell
September 1
2:24 am
I think it wasn’t so much that “you need to have a movie coming out to be a real author” as it was a response to the collective “who the fuck are you to have an opinion about author professionalism?”
I will say that, all other things being equal, on questions of professional behavior, I take the opinion of an author with multiple book deals under his belt (and yes, who has had his work optioned for film or TV, sold foreign rights, etc, etc)–i.e, a career author–over the opinion of an unpublished novelist or someone with one or two small press credits under his/her belt. In this case, experience does (or should) count for something.
Having witnessed a couple of authors part company with publishers in “mutual decisions” that looked more like “dumped because the publisher can’t be arsed to constantly put out fires”, I know that insane online behavior and constant author-generated bad press CAN hurt an author’s career.
I think there are enough readers like Mariana out there to make me leery of joining in something like #romfail, even if it were my kind of thing. Yes, it could be an unreasonable fear of fucking myself up my own butt, but better safe than sorry…
Las
September 1
12:45 pm
I never even heard of romfail until Mrs.G posted about it. As someone who has read way too many romances that just reinforce my policy of not telling anyone I know that I read romance, I can’t say I find anything wrong with the romfail concept. There’s a lot to mock in the genre (as in every other genre), and I think it’s entertaining to poke fun at the more ridiculous parts. But I agree that it’s just…squicky, when an (real, published) author is mocking another’s work. If they’re just laughing at themselves or gently poking fun of the genre in general, that’s great. But to slam a fellow author’s work is not cool.
Nora Roberts
September 1
4:14 pm
An author simply should never, never mock another author’s work in public.
My personal take is reviewers and review sites should review–for their readers. I believe they can be as critical, honest and opinionated as they like.
I’m certainly not against a thoughtful, even an amusing, critical examination of a book.
But twittering a book to pieces as part of Friday night’s entertainment doesn’t strike me as constructive or helpful to the author, the genre or the reader.
Dee Tenorio
September 1
5:17 pm
I totally missed the hubbub about romfail, oddly enough.
I’ve followed Romfail. I laugh. I’ve read it aloud to my husband and I’ve made jokes about the jokes made. That might make me a bad person, but I’ll own up to it. Romfail started innocently enough as Jane reading something she absolutely couldn’t believe. (Man comes out of a magical, time-traveling urinal. Tell me that wouldn’t make you go “whutnow?”)
Would it suck having my book up for Romfail? Only if the book deserved it, and that would be more against me than romfail. If Jane wants, she can do any of my books she likes. I’ll watch between my fingers, but I’ll still watch and not complain.
Why? Because we need to keep in mind, some authors have challenged Jane to read their book for Romfail on purpose, hoping the event will up their sales.
And other books are books that both Jane and several others inexplicably love, even though much of the book is arguably insane. Most romfails lately have been of this type. “The hero is an ass, the heroine is a moron. This plot is ridiculous. OMG, Gimme more!” And the ones I’ve followed have readers clamoring to get the book themselves. (Even Linda Howard’s “Sarah’s Child”, which inexplicably has an $11.95 ebook price tag! Geez, even I want a copy of Sarah’s Child after what was posted.) Others take part simply because they love the book like good crack.
I’ve never been a fan of point at others and laugh. But comparing mocking a person and mocking something someone has purposely put out for public consumption is two different things. Blogs tear books and genres up line by line sometimes. It’s not terribly different. It’s just live.
Okay, feel free to beat me up now.
Dee
Shiloh Walker
September 1
5:43 pm
geez, I have been looking all over trying to find a new copy of Sarah’s Child ever since Karen mentioned it on twitter.
I’ve had my share of bad reviews. I know they’re not any fun. But I try to keep a sense of humor about things. Makes my life a lot easier. If one of my books sends up on #romfail, I will just peeked through my fingers with you, Dee. if it ends up selling some of my books, I will chortle with glee. 😉
I’m not interested in mocking or laugh at anybody either. For those are bothered by #romfail, the best thing they could do is just not read it, because the bigger the people tear it down, the more attention it will get.
Dee Tenorio
September 1
5:50 pm
Exactly. I don’t like certain foods, I don’t eat em. Simple enough rule for life.
LOL @ looking for a copy. As soon as Rome started blaming Sarah for his attraction to her, I was obsessed. By the time he got to blaming her for the National Debt, I was a goner and the book is NO where. Sob. Not sure I can explain to hubby that I paid 12 bucks for a book that prolly costs 7. But I’m gonna keep looking. 🙂
Mireya
September 1
6:57 pm
Couldn’t care less about Twitter ergo, couldn’t care less about romfail *shrugs* That being said, authors ripping other authors is not something I appreciate as a reader: in Twitter or anywhere else for that matter. Just a matter of personal preference. I have no clue as to romfail or the atmosphere it promotes, nor do I intend to find out, and much less after what I’ve been reading about it (both pro and con).
Las
September 1
7:15 pm
Hey, I just might have my copy of Sarah’s Child buried somewhere. Didn’t know that it was in such demand, I just might try to sell it. That book was the final nail in the coffin for me…I haven’t read a Linda Howard book since.
alisha rai
September 2
3:07 am
Oh, no…the best part was when he decided he wanted nothing to do with the child that Sarah somehow concieved on her own. Oh, Rome, you and your borderline parental negligence.
Funny how books look different after a few years. I did find it quite riveting way back when :). Still a Linda Howard fangirl.
cinnamonpurr
September 2
5:51 am
Rome could have at least tried retro-insemination..?
Myra Willingham
September 2
6:33 pm
Authors who trash other authors are only asking to have the same happen to them. If that’s the only way you can get noticed on the internet, you should look into another line of work.
EC Sheedy
September 3
6:05 am
I know from nothing about Romfail, but it sounds as if it’s criticism of a book word by word, line by line, right? And the point of it is what? Fun?
Well, if that is the way of it, as an author, just thinking about it gives me palpitations. And while it may be entertaining for some readers, it doesn’t sound like a club an author should join.
Dee Tenorio
September 3
6:47 am
Romfail is pretty much EXACTLY what happened right here on this thread above, discussing the character of Rome and his rather jerklike tendencies. Never about the authors on a personal level.
I do find it interesting, though, that the majority of people who are against this or think romfail is such a terrible idea are all saying, “I’ve never heard of it before” or “I haven’t read it but…”. Just saying, shouldn’t it be harder to judge something after you’ve found out what it is that actually goes on?
Myra Willingham
September 3
12:03 pm
Well, I for one, did go on romfail and what I saw wasn’t fun. It bordered on something else. Tearing apart something someone has worked long and hard on even if you think it is trash isn’t funny to me. It’s juvenile and hurtful.
Gennita Low
September 3
12:43 pm
I agree with Nora. Professional courtesy is important in any business. Romfail was set up to be All About the Mockery, really, and being done live, has the effect of a pile-on. The writer “being roasted” might be silent, but imagine her sitting there reading the comments in real time, watching all the names of perhaps her favorite authors or writers she had talked to in conventions or other forums joining in and “having fun.” It’s just not right for an author to do that to another.
Mireya
September 3
2:47 pm
@Dee: you are correct. However, and speaking for myself, Twitter is not something I intend to get involved with and even more important, nothing I’ve read in favor of romfail convinces me that I want to get involved. And no, a dare doesn’t do it either.
EC Sheedy
September 3
2:57 pm
The question on the table is not, “Should there be a Romfail?” Is it?
I thought the question was “Should authors negatively critique other authors in a public venue?”
AztecLady
September 3
4:03 pm
EC Sheedy,
I think this goes back to: professionals should behave professionally in a professional setting.
The problem I see is that then authors–who happen to be readers first–are ON as professionals all the time in public. Some of them accept that and manage to disagree, agree, have fun, etc. while maintaining that professional mien**. Others… not so much.
**And here is where it gets sticky: what I consider professional may be nothing like what X or Y consider professional, and it may be light years away from what the author herself considers professional.
Quick example: in a post by Karen Ranney about this, published authors called writers who are not published “hobbyists” and “amateurs”. I consider that extremely unprofessional. Obviously, they thought differently, yes? or they wouldn’t have posted that.
Janet W
September 3
4:16 pm
This is the rest of what Karen Ranney said on her blog (below). I feel like I’m missing some context — did she say elsewhere that unpublished writers were OK to participate in #romfail but that published writers shouldn’t? Is that the distinction? I can see how the word “amateur” definitely has some loaded connotations, conjuring up as it does visions of hobbyist and such. Because, just to wade into deeper waters, a blogger who doesn’t profit from her book blog is in no way, in my opinion, necessarily an amateur or a hobbyist. It’s all about the quality of her work. So, be that as it may, is that why Ms. Ranney said that? Published writers beware, unpublished writers proceed with peril? My paraphrase. The gist of her comments aren’t any different from what Ms. Roberts said and altho I understand, azteclady, that your criteria and mine may vary, both authors seems to be saying that authors should say away from criticizing the works of other authors. Maybe I should be looking up the definition of author? LOL
Ranney’s comments on her blog:
“I believe that anyone has the right to say anything s/he wants about anything offered for public consumption.
I believe that if you’re a writer who does it, you’re foolish.
I believe that a group of people ridiculing one person is elitism. I don’t care how you pretty it up, put a bow around it, and label it something else. This is a hot button of mine, and you don’t get points for comments like: “well, we need to point out the bad books.” Great, point out the bad books, just don’t gang up on one author and ridicule him or her. There is no excuse for that. Period.
I believe that if you set yourself up as an arbiter of good taste for the purposes of ridiculing others you’re both an idiot and an elitist.”
Janet W
September 3
4:24 pm
Arrrrgh … missed the edit window: … both authors seem to be saying that authors should stay away … I want 24/7 editing 😀
AztecLady
September 3
4:37 pm
Janet W,
While I have no clue what Ms Ranney’s motivations were (regarding your question above, “is that why Ms. Ranney said that?”), my interpretation of both hers and Ms Roberts’ positions is a bit different to yours.
To whit: I see Ms Ranney say, “Authors shouldn’t criticize other authors’ work in public.” while Ms Roberts’ specifically said, “An author simply should never, never mock another author’s work in public.” (bolding mine) There is a huge difference between those two, IMO.
My own criticism of Ms Ranney’s behaviour is this: I believe that calling writers who have not been published amateurs or hobbyists is insulting, condescending and unprofessional. Obviously, she thinks differently, and so do the many people who agree with her.
I don’t see how my criteria of what is professional should dictate Ms Ranney’s behaviour, anymore than I see that her criteria of what is professional should dictate anyone else’s behaviour. Each person–reader, writer, published or not, makes her own decisions and will simply have to live with the consequences. *shrug*
*hopping off soapbox*
kirsten saell
September 3
6:19 pm
Except that what happened here is people who have read the book share their opinions of the plot and characters–like a book club. Whereas with #romfail, most of the participants haven’t read the book at all. It’s more like a turkey read.
kirsten saell
September 3
6:45 pm
I think authors can and should be critical of other authors’ works. There are ways to be critical that can also be professional.
I don’t see that at all. I saw them as saying the same thing, as evidenced by:
She says, “point out the bad books, just don’t gang up to mock and ridicule”. Pretty much what Nora said.
I also don’t see anything so horrible about calling an unpublished writer an amateur. While “amateurish” carries some serious negative connotations, “amateur” simply means unpaid. I don’t think that Olympic gold medalist’s “amateur status” means that he’s in any way an inferior athlete to the guy across the gym who gets paid. Just that he doesn’t, you know, get paid yet.
Although I suppose “published” vs. “unpublished” or “aspiring” would probably get fewer backs up.
That’s it exactly. I think Mr. Garton’s warning is one to at least think about: whether you’re a pro writer or aspiring to be a pro writer, it’s probably a good idea to, you know, not do shit that alienates people. And there has been enough condemnation of #romfail from romance readers and authors at this point to make me wonder how the silent majority of lurkers might feel about the whole thing.