In light of Quartet Press closing before opening, and among the wank already started and the much more to come, it strikes me (again) to see all those comments that boil down to, “Never submit to a new publisher.”
While I understand being cautious, there are two things that bug the hell out of me whenever I read that:
a) New publishers aren’t, by a long sight, the only ones screwing up their authors–and editors–all over the place *coughnewconceptscough*
and
b) If no one submits to a new publisher, how the fuck is that publisher ever going to have anything to publish?
I mean, I know I’m not the only one who wants more reputable choices in the marketplace, so this whole “smart people don’t submit to new pubs until they’ve proven themselves” seems… well, self-defeating. After all, no submissions, no published books, no profit, no publisher.
Sparkindarkness
September 10
11:58 am
In the end, it’s a risk, so you have to balance what you stand to lose and how likely you are to lose it.
Now, if the worst is a delay that you can easily rise above of one of your many books – then a new publisher isn’t too great a risk. Your debut? That may be more risky.
But it’s not, as you say, as if new publishers have a monopoly on screwing up. The key is research. Research the publisher – what experience do the people BEHIND the press have? What companies have they worked for, how well did that work? How much money have they got behind them etc etc. Demand the info. If the new publisher wants authors to take the risk it has to be ready to offer these reassurances
Don’t believe the hype, do ther research on ANY publisher. No matter how established. And if the publisher doesn’t have a history then the people involved will have (or should have)
katiebabs
September 10
11:58 am
It is taking chances. A part of life. If it doesn’t work out, you roll with it.
Why wouldn’t someone submit to a new publisher? I would.
Ghetto Diva
September 10
12:17 pm
A) New publishers aren’t the ony ones your right, BUT you see more new publishers screwing up big time, then the ones who have been around for years.
B) I still hold to it: DON’T ever submit to a new publisher. It would be your downfall: Example Quartet, Silks Vault, Ocean’s Mist, omg and the list can go on and on and on.
theo
September 10
12:35 pm
I think Sparkingdarkness made a good point. Research! If the publisher doesn’t have a reputation yet, the people involved certainly will. In these times, any business venture has the possibility of failure before it even starts. In this case, Quartet Press was started by well-respected people. But what also makes them different is, when they found things were not favorable and would be very difficult at best, they closed their doors and returned all rights, etc. to the authors they’d already signed. They didn’t take the money and run. They didn’t ‘neener neener’ at the authors they’d already signed and then disappeared only to reappear under a different name with the same problems. Though their announcement was a surprise to the community, they did it with class and did it the right way.
I am upset for those involved with starting the company. They left long standing positions to begin this. Now they need to find a new direction as well as those authors who thought they would be getting their first break. There isn’t anyone involved who didn’t get hurt by this in some way.
But I also agree with you. If no one subs to new publishers, how will the new publishers have anything to offer? One cannot live in a cave forever, never taking any chances at all. What kind of life would that be? Quartet Press took a chance and failed. There is nothing that says any chance we take guarantees a win.
Roslyn Holcomb
September 10
12:49 pm
If I’d had anything available I might would’ve submitted a novella or something of the like to Quartet. I probably wouldn’t submit a full-length novel. I can do a novella in a few weeks, whereas a novel takes months, even years. If the publisher goes down and my rights are tied up for a while I haven’t lost all that much. But I’ve got a several books out right now and have a little cushion. I think I’d be a lot more wary if this were my first book, especially if it were a novel.
I was reamed by a print publisher that had been around for more than a decade, so longevity is not necessary any indication. I did my due diligence, but at the time no one was talking about them. As I understand it, they have subsequently cleaned up their act. Regardless, it pays to do your research.
Barbara Sheridan
September 10
2:03 pm
I find it easier to take a chance on a new press because I’ve already got a fairly sizable backlist with more established presses.
I think the problem comes when newer writers get in with a new press then sell everything they’ve written to said press.
Instead of cautioning folks to “Avoid all start-ups” I think it’s better to say “Never put the all the pretty eggs in one basket”.
Myra Willingham
September 10
2:03 pm
Rights being tied up. That’s the crux of the matter. One of the authors for whom I edit was involved in two civil action law suits. Both times she got her rights back but it cost her to do so–big time! The third publisher was okay for a few years then suddenly went whacko and my author had to leave and along with several other authors from that publisher, formed a new publishing house that has survived for nearly ten years and is a very respected house. I know she cautions authors to never sub to a new publisher unless you investigate all TPWB. Even then, it’s a crap shoot. You roll the dice and take what you get. Something had to be SERIOUSLY wrong at Quartet Press to make them close up shop so quickly. It’s good the authors found out about it now instead of later when bankruptcy court could conceivably tie up their rights for years!
anneD
September 10
2:11 pm
Roslyn and Barbara both made the point I was going to. If it is your first book, go established, but if you’re already an established author you’ve got the readership to at least make sales and you can take a risk on a new company. That’s not to say you should throw your rights away, just that your not risking what is one of the most important parts of your career.
Fae Sutherland
September 10
2:43 pm
I get that it’s a catch 22, and it certainly does seem a no-win situation. But it only seems that way. Because no matter how much some of us encourage folks not to submit to start ups, there are *always* those who do. In the case of QP, some very good authors among them. So it’s not like just because I or anyone else says “Don’t!” that anyone listens. No one listens, it seems.
It’s not foolproof, I’ve personally been burned by a pub that had been around for several years before I ever submitted. But avoiding start ups does make it less likely to be humped. Less likely is good enough for me.
Shiloh Walker
September 10
4:01 pm
all publishers have to start somewhere. At one point, all of them were new. Granted, it does seem easier to throw together an epublisher on the web, not do your research and then flopped. But QP seem to be doing their homework, getting ready, etc. sometimes things just don’t work out.
one thing that stands out in my mind is that they handled this gracefully. Whatever issues led to this, they didn’t turn a blind eye to them and push forward-that’s where a lot of epubs go wrong.
With the unprofessional ‘throw it together on a lark’ epubs, when things start to crumble, instead of acknowledging and dealing with it, they just keep going until they have screwed their authors, their creditors, and everybody else.
QP didn’t do that-so kudos to them.
Best of luck to everybody there
(edited…heavily…I blame the voice-text software)
Rowan Larke
September 10
5:47 pm
Honestly? I think any new epub that starts up should have contacts in the industry that they can call on. To clarify: they should already know enough people in the business that they could ask at least 10 authors to contribute something to their debut lineup.
If you’ve been in/around epublishing for more than a year as a reasonable, intelligent person? You should easily be able to make those contacts.
Jill N. Noble
September 10
5:48 pm
I agree with the following:
1. Do your research. Find out who is behind the company.
2. If you like what you discover, perhaps submit something short — submit for an anthology, or a novella or a short story. Less risk, and you can see how you’re treated by the new (or newer) company.
To answer Karen’s question regarding how the new company will ever have something to sell if *no one* ever submits — well, that just doesn’t happen. There are a lot of hungry authors out there looking for places to publish. But what does happen? When bigger-named authors refuse to submit anything to a new(er) company, said new(er) company doesn’t grow as fast. They won’t bring in as much money as they might otherwise, which affects a lot of different aspects of the business, and which may mean they need to re-work their initial business plan. If there’s not a lot (or any) capital backing, things may start to crumble pretty quickly. This is why many of the e-publisher start-ups are run by people who still hold full-time jobs. They still have to eat while they wait for their new business venture to generate enough income.
PS. If this posts twice, my apologies. My connection reset. :-/
Melissa Blue
September 10
6:44 pm
I can see the point of the “wait and see” approach. I think the Trisk Titanic and any other e-pub that went down with all the author’s rights has a long-lasting affect on how much risk some are willing to take with a new publisher. With a new publisher the author is taking A LOT of risk. No it may not be monetary like the publisher. It’s time–the time it takes to write and polish a work, even a novella, the time it takes to promote your upcoming novel, yourself and indirectly your publisher. It’s more than just submitting a novel(la), it’s an investment.
At the same time, for every author hesitant to jump on the ship, 10 more behind them are asking for the e-mail addy so they can send something.
My Thoughts on Quartet Press and New Epublishing Ventures in General « Noble Expressions Blog
September 10
6:47 pm
[…] on the Karen Knows Best blog, Karen brought up the fact that a lot of people are saying, “See, this is why you never […]
Anion
September 10
7:08 pm
Ditto Rowan Larke. It’s not up to authors to make sure new epublishers have something to publish; we are not supposed to be in the business of helping publishers get off their feet. A new house should–just as Samhain did–already have solid enough contacts among authors with followings to get some of their friends and people they’ve worked with to submit.
SarahT
September 10
7:24 pm
Sensible advice. If I were a newbie author, I’d probably try submitting to established publishers before trying a new one. If they rejected me, then I’d try a start-up. It would depend on how many books I’d written at the point of looking for a publisher. If I already had a couple stashed away in a drawer, I might diversify.
Ghetto Diva
September 10
7:24 pm
Jill I was just over at your site, I read your post , and this comment is in regards to your statement: The upside? Less time from submission to publication, more one-on-one attention
How can you promise newbie authors that the submission process to publication is less time? Wouldn’t “less time” depend on how many submissions you get? Not fair, to even state that at all. Was your blog post written, in hopes of getting more newbie authors to your press? I sincerly hope that you aren’t trying to dupe new authors.
Jill N. Noble
September 10
7:58 pm
I can make these statements because I’ve been on both sides of the fence. I’ve published with a couple of the “Big Boys” (speaking e-publishers, here), and I know how their process differs from a start-up’s process. I know, for instance, that EC can take up to six months to respond. I know, for instance, that several of the bigger publishers’ slots are filled far into next year. A start-up is not in that position. I have a lot of connections in this industry, I’ve been in e-publishing for almost 7 years . . . I guess that qualifies me to at least offer a somewhat educated opinion. 😉
Nonny
September 10
8:30 pm
I see where you’re coming from and agree to some extent.
However… I’ve frequented/moderated a lot of writers forums over the year, and I often see new writers getting excited about Uber Great New Press and what they can submit there. I almost always advise them to submit to an established publisher, because a new writer (or a new-to-publishing writer) doesn’t generally have the knowledge or tools to best handle if a publisher turns out to be a screw job. They’re more likely to believe the publisher when they try to fleece them… as we’ve seen many times in comment threads after some publisher turned out to be a scam.
Even with established writers… it depends on the output. I would not advise my friend that puts out a book a year, for instance, to sub to a new publisher. She has a lot more at risk than other writers that put out lots of novel/las and can risk that one-off they wrote.
From an author’s standpoint, we have to protect ourselves and our interests. There really isn’t an effective e-published writer’s union, so if we end up fucked, we’re on our own. Look at what Ellen Ashe went through with New Concepts. A lot of us can’t afford the cost to hire a lawyer. Pro bono options exist in some areas, but it’s still a lot of stress and heartache.
I think it’s an individual choice, whether or not to risk that.
vein
September 10
9:53 pm
New publishers with a hope of surviving generally have personally solicted content before they open and they pay for it out of their start-up capital. But in the end, how new publishers get going isn’t the author’s problem, really. Choosing between an established press with a track record and a start-up isn’t that hard for me. You may flirt with the stranger in the bar, but you don’t lend him money, or marry him.
Mary Winter
September 11
2:58 am
I also add my voice to say “research! research!”. And yes, I do have a publishing company, so I speak not just with my author’s hat on. No publisher is going to be the perfect fit for every author. It’s a gamble whether you submit to an established publisher or a new one. Sure, the established publisher most likely won’t fold overnight, but do their contracts grab rights? Do they treat their authors well? Do they over assign editors so that your editor can’t even get your name right?
Newer publishers might provide more one-on-one attention or a faster turn around depending on how they’re structured. (i.e. our response time is 2-4 weeks (and yes, we update this time in our autoresponders/websites if it changes, too) compared to up to a year at some places). There may be a difference in sales, as the EREC chart shows. But I think the rule of the publishing game is RESEARCH no matter where you plan to submit.
And I also have to say that as a publisher who will have been releasing books for a year next month, I take far greater pride when I hear people say they’ve heard good things about me, or my company, than from my hitting the top #10 list at ARE. Of course, the latter is pretty cool too. *big smile*.
kirsten saell
September 11
6:08 am
I wouldn’t have sent my work to QP, but it isn’t because they were new.
Obviously, experience counts for something. But an owner/principal who’s experienced in traditional publishing is just as likely to be a liability for an epublisher as an asset. After looking at QP’s figures on what they were planning on charging for ebooks ($4.99-9.99 which is pretty damn high compared to the fairly standard $1.99+ for a short or novella to $4.50-7.99 for a novel), I started to detect the redolence of NY/trad-pub thinking. $9.99 for an ebook? I adore ebooks, vastly prefer them to print, and even I’m not paying that.
Still, I’m willing to consider some readers might be willing to pay ten bucks for an ebook. And if QP couldn’t turn a profit with prices like those–especially paying 35% on net–how can other epubs do it while charging much less and often paying more than 35% on gross?
They can do it because they know what they’re doing.
The moment I read on Kassia’s blog today that the cost of an ISBN number for each format of a book was crazy…um, let’s just say I seriously hope I misinterpreted that statement somehow, because if they had done any research (like buying an ebook and checking the ISBN of each format, which you can do for one price, I might add, and is how I confirmed it), they’d realize you only need one ISBN for each title in digital, no matter how many formats you offer. Apparently the guys who sell the ISBNs would like you to do one for each format, but you don’t have to.
The stated price range and the paying on net were big enough red flags for me not to have considered submitting to them. The ISBN business (if I’ve interpreted it correctly) just confirmed for me what I already suspected. This is NY thinking applied to ebooks–and we all know how well THAT works.
I’ve heard big authors say it’s not worth haggling over ebook royalty rates when they often sell barely a hundred copies. Well, when they cost as much as print (often in the $12-15 range) and are DRMed out the wazoo, I’m not that surprised. I, a virtual unknown with four virtually unknown titles from a lowly epublisher, sold more than three hundred copies of my last release in the first ten days from the publisher’s website alone–I won’t find out second party sales for a couple months.
How is it that my ebook sales can outstrip any, even one, NY author’s? Because my publisher knows how to price, market and distribute ebooks, something NY pubs show no inclination to learn.
All this tells me is that NY wisdom does not work when applied to ebooks. And the next epub that opens crowing about how one of the owners has “decades of traditional publishing experience” is going to be an automatic pass for me.
Ghetto Diva
September 11
11:59 am
I as well have seen both sides of the fence. The longest time to publish would be at EC, that is correct. BUT I still say it depends on how many submissions they have at the time.
Lauren Dane
September 11
4:43 pm
It’s an author’s job to do her research, but in truth it’s a balance you have to make knowingly. When I considered Samhain, I asked other authors who’d been working with them what they thought. I sent a book and had a wait and see attitude.
I had books with other publishers so if it had gone bad, it would have been one book. It would have hurt, but I had other options and that’s what was important to me. It turns out it was a very good opportunity and I’ve been really happy writing for Samhain with Angie as my editor.
Most new companies I would not send anything to. I’d want to see how they do, how they market, how their site looks, what the editing is like, etc. But sometimes you take a chance and it works out.
what’s important to me isn’t necessarily what will be important to others, but I encourage all writers to do their damned homework rather than just sending something out to a new place without any research.
Tymber Dalton
September 12
2:37 pm
I had also questioned the ISBN statement about the various formats. Now, I believe you are supposed to have an ISBN for e-book and one for print (and another for hardcover, or different print formats like trade versus mass-market size, etc.), but one for each e-book FORMAT (pdf, html, etc.) is not the norm. None of the three publishers I’m with have different ISBNs for each e-format offered.