On hypocrisy–and Rachel, formerly from AAR, is at it again…
Wednesday, May 19, 2010Posted in: Azteclady Speaks, hypocrisy
Jessica, of the most excellent Read, React, Review (formerly, Racy Romance Reviews), posted a couple of links to a kerfuffle involving Dear Author. Since these days I skip more than I read over there, I hadn’t realized that a recent review of Sinful (erotic romance by Charlotte Featherstone) was written by a 15 year old.
I left a couple of comments over at Jessica‘s, but since I’m still thinking about the issue, I’m going to expand a bit here:
Unless there is clear danger–a kid is leaning over a bridge’s handrail and there is no adult keeping an eye on the kid… a kid is hanging upside down from a thin branch three six feet high, and there’s no adult below ready to catch him if the branch breaks… there’s a toddler running on the street and no adult in sight… there’s a barefoot child stepping on grass where you know there are nettles… there’s a bunch of children taunting, pushing, shoving, hitting another child… there are adults abusing a child…–unless the situation is clearly damaging to the child’s well being,
please do not parent other people’s children.
Perhaps I feel strongly about this because a few years back I got taken to task by a group of women–fellow readers, over the now-defunct Suzanne Brockmann board–for allowing my then-fourteen year old to read Linda Howard’s Mr Perfect.
OMG, how dared I! I was perverting my own, innocent child by allowing him to read such material–and I wondered then at the hypocrisy of such outcry over not allowing an intelligent and sensible 14 year old to read it, but it being perfectly fine and dandy to have it laying about the house.
Which was nothing to the outcry we were both subjected to, for my allowing him to participate in a discussion in that board about Hot Target and SB’s ‘immorality’ in writing about homosexual men falling in lust and in love. One of the statements that stuck with me was that I was “turning” my son into a homosexual–otherwise he would (obviously) understand how unnatural it was to defend other people’s right to their own sexuality.
I was, and still are, very proud of my son’s stance and of how articulate he was while defending other people’s right to be who they are. At the same time, I was astonished at the gall of so many people who flagellated me for allowing him to participate in “adult” discussions–and him, for his tolerance and open-mindedness.
How does all this connects with hypocrisy, you ask?
Well, first–many of the people involved** in the discussion then, as several of those involved in the discussion over at DA now, read pretty explicit sex in their romance. Also, in many cases, when asked, many romance readers will talk fondly about reading their first explicit sex scene sometime in their very early teens–or younger (11 has been mentioned more than once *raising hand* including by myself).
Unless those people are willing to say that reading sex that early forever scarred their psyches and twisted their sexuality, why should they be so freaking sure that my allowing my son to read Mr Perfect would damage his?
Personally, I know that if anything twisted my sexuality it definitely was not my reading.
** by involved, I mean many of the ones freaking out over supposed corruption of the minor’s innocence
Since I drafted this post, Rachel Potter has seen fit to drop her two cents:
Janet W – It is your business. Of course, it is your business. It’s all our business because children who are raised by permissive parents socialize with children who are raised by strict parents, and inevitably the permissive worldview wins out. Peers become far more important than parents to kids years before a child reaches adulthood, and I think in fact that many today are counting on that fact. Wait for the priggish parents to die off, then we’ll have the New World Order, etc., etc.
You cannot have a functioning society when there are no agreed upon rules by which the young are raised. This is a large part of why we do not currently have a very functional society – because we just love, love, love the moral relativism. It is so much easier. Unless you’re a parent and you do not want your child growing up thinking that current mores are, well, moral. Then good luck to ya.
I read romances as a teen. I do not think this is evidence for why or why not I am or am not screwed up now. The climate in the 1980’s is not the climate of today, but I also do not believe Gen X came out unscathed.
I wonder if Ms Potter has ever stopped for a second to contemplate the reverse side of this coin…
Of course is my business that there are retrograde parents out there fostering the idea that there’s no such thing as date rape and that homosexuality is unnatural–those toxic beliefs have no place in the world I want for my children. Therefore is my business to educate those poor repressed children…
I can just see the steam coming out of her ears.
Shiloh Walker
May 19
12:41 pm
Choke. Holy crap.
Um. No. It’s the parent who has RAISED their child RIGHT, to think for themselves that wins out… am I a strict mother? Oh, yeah. Do my kids ‘socialize’ with kids who have more ‘permissive’ worldviews?
Yes.
And you know what? My kids are also intelligent enough to see that those kids with the more ‘permissive’ parents are also the kids who throw fits and have tantrums and get mad and act like spoiled rotten brats over the stupidest little things. My 11 y.o. hardly ever plays with one kid in particular just because she’s tired of the girl’s drama routines.
People…. get a grip. If you do YOUR job right, then what the other parents do doesn’t matter quite so much-not with your kids. And in the end, that’s all you can control.
Mireya
May 19
1:23 pm
Wow … just … wow. I don’t have children but really, what kind of statement is that! o.O
Lori
May 19
1:42 pm
The kerfluffle was more along the lines of wishing not to have a 15 year old review adult content on an adult blog and discuss adult content with adults.
I don’t give a fuck what someone else’s kid reads. I do give a fuck when he’s on the internet talking sex with adults.
My child is uh, raised moderately strictly but her worldview is very open as is the world she lives in. Her world has multiple colors, sexualities and and expression. and she has a parent who watches her carefully to make sure she’s safe.
Throwmearope
May 19
3:07 pm
Huffpo has a link that pretty much defines bad parenting:
Letting a fifteen year old read racy books, not so much.
Throwmearope
May 19
3:25 pm
Oops, that’s what I get for trying to do tech. Sorry.
katiebabs
May 19
3:53 pm
Should John have started reviewing with DA then? Even if he was reviewing YA, he is still interacting with adults.
AztecLady
May 19
4:06 pm
You know what, Kate?
I don’t care–the whole deal is between the powers that be at DA (Jane et al) and John’s legal guardians/parents. It is not my business, seriously.
Would I think differently if this were my own child? Don’t think so.
Do I think it’s skeevy/creepy/inappropriate that a minor is reviewing an erotic romance? I’ll admit to surprise–it wasn’t difficult to see this kerffufle coming, frankly, and I would have expected that DA would err on the side of caution. With that said, I’m pretty confident Jane and company covered their asses before going ahead with this, so… back to not my business.
Lori
May 19
4:20 pm
Word.
DS
May 19
5:29 pm
I read the review but I didn’t follow the kerfuffle. I thought the book review was a little naive and I didn’t realize he was quite that young. Still, even knowing it doesn’t bother me. It sounds to me that his parent/guardians have done a good job so far. But they don’t need my approval any more than they need my disapproval.
I also dislike that violence is frequently given a pass in YA books while even the lightest reference to sex can be a cause for palpitations.
Melissa Blue
May 19
7:21 pm
The kerfluffle was more along the lines of wishing not to have a 15 year old review adult content on an adult blog and discuss adult content with adults.
The problem I have with this is that somehow 18 became a magic number. On the eve of your 18th birthday, while sleeping, you are imbued with all the knowledge of an adult. Not so much. I’m sure (I hope) his parents are aware of what he is doing. Frankly what better way to handle and dip your toes into adult content and adult conversations with adults while your parent is standing by.
I thought the major component of child-rearing was to prepare your child for the world?
As for Rachel…can’t we just crown her with a douche bag of the year award? Ugh.
Karen Scott
May 19
9:03 pm
It seems to be official. Rachel Potter is actually a fuckwit of the highest order.
christine Merrill
May 19
9:37 pm
“The problem I have with this is that somehow 18 became a magic number. On the eve of your 18th birthday, while sleeping, you are imbued with all the knowledge of an adult.”
Um, no. On your 18th birthday, you cease to be jailbait. I don’t care what other people’s teens read, or what they talk about online, I have kids of my own to watch.
But as someone who has volunteered as Sunday school teacher, youth team coach, room mother, etc, I do not trust situations like this. I write R rated stuff, but I do not share it with the teens, nor do I want them to share with me. If there was some terrible misunderstanding over a pat on the back or an inappropriate comment, my career would make my behavior suspect, and my ass would be grass.
An open mind and good intentions are not enough to preserve your reputation if one of the kids you are dealing with makes a crazy accusation. And I have dealt with my share of really nice kids that turned out to be incredibly fragile people with messed up home lives, and histories of abuse, pathological lying or both.
When working with and around teens, it’s not enough to be innocent. You need clear cut lines of behavior, and a second set of adult eyes around, at all times to verify how totally innocent you are.
And you better not have an internet history that shows you talking to 15 yr olds about erotica. Because to a prosecution lawyer, that would look like “grooming” and not literary discourse.
This is probably making me sound like a paranoid looney. But this is the advice you will get, if you go to any teaching or coaching workshop. John seems like a bright kid. But I have no idea who he is, who his family is, what his life is like.
Kids have to be careful about talking to strange adults on the internet. And in some situations, adults should be careful about talking to teens.
Michelle
May 19
9:49 pm
No matter what some twits say, DA blog is not a Penthouse chat room. And I must of missed it where people were forced to participate on the blog. Easily solution if you don’t approve don’t participate.
Shelby Reed
May 19
10:39 pm
I had a fan once who was fourteen. She wrote me a very compelling letter. Kind of a goth/emo type kid who seemed older than her years, and who aspired to write vampire fiction. I encouraged her to keep up with her writing, but I DID ask her if it was okay with her parents that she was reading books from Ellora’s Cave, and she said they knew she’d been reading that stuff since she was, oh, eleven???? Our exchange was one time only. I was a new author and didn’t want to have any problems in case she wasn’t being honest about her parents. But she did make me think hard about writing YA, and I still think about it.
When I was her age, I read everything about romance and sex I could get my hands on. Sure, it was fun and titillating, but I was already becoming fascinated with how people interact with each other, relationships–not just romance, but human dynamics. I just liked watching people and trying to figure out what made them tick. I read all kinds of books, from literature to smut. Lady Chatterley’s Lover is STILL find it one of my all-time favorites. I don’t have children, so I can’t say how I’d respond to my own kid reading what I read, but…he without sin cast the first stone…???
Melissa Blue
May 19
11:35 pm
Hey, Christine. First, congrats on the success with Need to Know.
Now for the sticky stuff. But as someone who has volunteered as Sunday school teacher, youth team coach, room mother, etc, I do not trust situations like this.
I wasn’t saying this situation is black and white and that no one should feel uncomfortable about it. My father has been a preacher all his life and he has dealt with the youth on numerous occasions. Even though they respected him it always lurked in the back of his mind one of them would say he’d done something. So, yes, having a minor anywhere while discussing sex in any shape or form is bound to open Pandora’s box.
So, no, not a paranoid looney. My point was toward the outcry of “you’re children are corrupting mine.” In this situation why not take the opportunity with your child to discuss sex strictly in the confines of literature. Why wait until they are 18 and no longer jailbait to have these types of discussions or, hell just discussions about broader ideals? Because, honestly, these kids are already being hit with it. I’ve read Charmed by P.C. and Kristin Cast, a YA. That’s not mentioning what they hear and witness at school.
So, maybe the true underling outcry is that people were not given a heads up to censor their behavior? I.E. “I just talked to a 15 year old boy about sex (indirectly)?!!!”
Kids have to be careful about talking to strange adults on the internet. And in some situations, adults should be careful about talking to teens.
Absolutely, but again when do we have the power to make that choice? For ourselves and for our children. Not for someone else’s child and not for another adult. At least when it comes to literature and discussions surrounding it on the internet.
Melissa Blue
May 19
11:41 pm
As an aside, I find it interesting that people are ok with minors reading sexual content, but much more uncomfortable when it comes time to discuss it. “My parent’s looked the other way” type of comments. Things like this always make me wonder about our society.
SamG
May 20
12:27 am
I just went to DA an read the whole thread. I would never have guessed a young man wrote that review. He was well-spoken throughout. Good for him. I’d be very proud to have a 15 year old that well read and spoken.
I would not stop my daughter from reading whatever she wanted. She’s started raiding my bookshelves quite often. I don’t have much, if any, erotica. If I did and she wanted to read it, I’d warn her first.
Sam
eggs
May 20
12:58 am
“As an aside, I find it interesting that people are ok with minors reading sexual content, but much more uncomfortable when it comes time to discuss it.”
I haven’t read the thread (yet) at DA, but for me, this is the difference: it is appropriate for 15 year old kids to be interested in erotica and to talk about what turns them on, but I don’t think it’s appropriate for an adult to discuss erotica and what turns them on with those same kids. The problem isn’t with what the kids are doing, the problem is with what the adults are doing.
Hiring a 15 year old kid to write a review of an erotic novel with the express intent of generating a conversation about it’s erotic content *with adults* is not, at least in my mind, appropriate at all.
If I was having what I thought was a conversation about erotica *with adults* and then later found out I was actually talking with a kid, I would have felt like I’d a) done something inappropriate, and b) been set up to do it because the site hadn’t let me know I was talking to a kid.
If it was made clear that the reviewer was a kid, then I wouldn’t have a problem with any of it as the commenters could adjust their comments to what they thought was an appropriate level of conversation to have with a kid.
sallahdog
May 20
2:01 am
Do any of those people objecting to this 15 year old reviewing a romance actually know 15 year olds these days?
My daughter is 15, goes to a public high school and believe me, if all she had to contend with was reading a titilating book and writing a review of it I would be a happy camper…
I read the review, read some of the comments, saw his age, and frankly didnt give a crap…. He writes well, his English teacher is probably happy with the way he expresses himself and the fact that he actually reads for pleasure (other than the usual nudie magazine that seems to be the 15 year old boys staple)….
I think people are clutching pearls a little too tightly here.. Kids their age these days look at PORN on the net, have sex(oh that I wish they didnt), do drugs, cut themselves (can you tell I have been a foster Mom to teens?)…. reading and reviewing a romance (even if its racy)… practically tame…
sallahdog
May 20
2:05 am
Sorry, just had to say something else… Sex is a NORMAL part of life… yet the same people freaking their asses out over a 15 year old commenting on the sex in a book, wouldnt bat a dang eye if the kid was talking about the blood and gore and violence (which one would hope would NOT be a NORMAL part of life) in a book or a movie…
I have to stop now or my eyes are going to get stuck in the rolled up position…
Melissa Blue
May 20
2:10 am
The problem isn’t with what the kids are doing, the problem is with what the adults are doing.
Interesting point and I can agree.
is it appropriate for 15 year old kids to be interested in erotica and to talk about what turns them on, but I don’t think it’s appropriate for an adult to discuss erotica and what turns them on with those same kids.
Yes, I can agree talking about personal turn on’s crosses the line with a minor, but once you do that you are no longer in the territory of talking about the book. That’s the sticking point in this situation for me, because that’s the way I see it. Does this mean that sex in any form (within literature)equals talking about what turns you on or does it mean in the context of the story a scene with sex in it it worked? OR does it tread the line of both of those questions? If the latter is the case then absolutely inappropriate. From reading other posts and comments that’s how it was perceived. In that context I can understand the outcry.
Yet in this particular situation I didn’t see anyone saying they preferred anal plugs to a minor.
Leslee
May 20
9:47 am
I totally agree with DS and sallahdog. These people probably have no idea how violent the video games are that their kids play or the kind of movies they are watching (SAW franchise!) but sex freaks them out. I would rather my children see sex, read about it, etc. because I can explain why someone is having sex. I can’t explain why someone would want to kill another person! Sex isn’t dirty but these same people who read romance, etc act like it is. I was reading Silhouette romances when I was 10-11 or so. It didn’t warp me any more than it would warp anyone. What freaked me out was horror books!
eggs
May 20
10:27 am
“Yet in this particular situation I didn’t see anyone saying they preferred anal plugs to a minor.”
I agree. In this case, although DA didn’t mention the reviewer was a minor, he was ‘outed’ quite early in the discussion which pretty much derailed any chance of a ribald ‘show and tell’.
After reading the thread, I felt kind of sorry for the kid having to defend himself, his parents, and his employer, all the while trying to keep the book discussion going. He acquitted himself really well! He was, however, too young to realize that a lot of the chagrin came not because of what HE had said and done, but because people were embarrassed by their own behavior in participating in ‘those kinds’ of discussions with a minor. They feel betrayed by DA for putting them in that position when they were in what they thought of as a ‘safe place’ to talk. I think it is that sense of embarrassment and betrayal – not the review itself – that fuels the chagrin.
Mireya
May 20
12:19 pm
I don’t think he is reviewing for DA per se. They post “guest reviews” and I do believe that’s all it was. I do feel sorry for the him now, though. I just hope this whole thing doesn’t push him away. 🙁
Teddypig
May 20
12:34 pm
This!
Teens also have an interest in alcohol but like hell would I buy it for them even “if” their parents allowed them to drink at home. That’s their parents decision not mine.
I am sure underage readers have probably read my blog online too but I do not write it for them or plan on discussing these things with them even if I try and keep the tone of my blog from being hardcore I still write it for adults not kids. Just like I might discuss my favorite alcoholic beverage does not mean I would knowingly promote it to kids.
SarahT
May 20
1:39 pm
Perhaps my view is coloured by the fact that I, like Christine Merrill, have taught 15-year-olds. I can guarantee you that my job would have been on the line if I had engaged them in a discussion on erotica/erotic romance/sexually explicit material in class.
I know one teacher at the school had problems with a boy in her class when he accused her of behaving inappropriately with him while giving him extra help one-to-one. Knowing the kid in question, I was inclined to believe her side of the story, but it is very hard to know exactly what happened without having been there.
In any case, teachers are taught to be extremely careful in their interaction with teenagers to avoid such accusations.
I can only reiterate what I said on KB’s blog: if this were a 15-year-old girl reading and reviewing an erotic book on a blog or forum which mainly caters to an adult male audience, would you still have no problem with it?
christine Merrill
May 20
1:48 pm
This is what I think a lot of it is Melissa Blue. But then it all melts into puddles of “you’re a prude who doesn’t know kids” vs “That boy ain’t been brung up right”.
And I don’t think that’s the important issue at all.
I am in the trenches of teen parenting, right now. No problems talking about sex with mine. Frankly, they wish I would stop. And not naive to what kids are doing, generally.
What they are doing is everything you can imagine, and then a little bit more.
I think it is easier for teens to build a healthy sex life if they don’t have us watching, directing, discussing every move. Or, god forbid, participating. Should have “the talk” or “Talks” of course. But after that, they have their world, we have ours. Nothing wrong with that. It’s a matter of personal privacy.
And the fact that, generally, teens think it’s creepy when we want to talk about sex like we might enjoy it. Because we’re old.
I think it is easier for teens to build a healthy sex life if they don’t have us watching, directing, discussing every move. They have their world, we have ours. Nothing wrong with that.
But in this case, we have a teen participating in an uncontroled discussion of sexualized material with a group of strangers. All things considered, the material is pretty tame. And if given a heads up (which we weren’t), we can censor our own behavior. But on a largely uncensored list, we can’t predict the behavior of the strangers. Or the teen. Anything can happen.
This is not a good thing.
(And apropro of nothing, from my personal stand, 18 is legal, but 16 is the magic number when you can drive yourself to the drug store, or to Planned Parenthood without telling mom. When dealing with teens, there is a big difference between 15 and 16).
And thank you about NTK .
Janet W
May 20
4:52 pm
Lori said: “The kerfluffle was more along the lines of wishing not to have a 15 year old review adult content on an adult blog and discuss adult content with adults. I don’t give a fuck what someone else’s kid reads. I do give a fuck when he’s on the internet talking sex with adults.”
For me the kerfluffle, what I care about, is that I wasn’t apprised, clearly and transparently, of what was actually the situation: that an underage teenager was reviewing a book that is part of the Harlequin Spice line. Where I to have read that, who knows whether I would or would not have read the review … but I would have made that decision in full knowledge of the facts. Parenting other people’s children, maturity of reviewers, whether or not we are implying that something untoward took place … for me these are not the horses I rode in on. I “assumed” that John was an adult, because I “assumed” that a review of Sinful would be written by an adult. I think that would have been a fairly safe assumption on my part but I was wrong.
Anon76
May 20
5:09 pm
“So, maybe the true underling outcry is that people were not given a heads up to censor their behavior? I.E. “I just talked to a 15 year old boy about sex (indirectly)?!!!””
I read the threads on this heads up post. For me, the above would be the issue.
It matters not to me how people raise their children, unless they allow them to be destructive, disruptive, rude demons, or if they abuse them. Very simple terms, really.
However…the world is what it is, and I would expect a heads up from those in the know if I am discussing sex in any manner with someone else’s child. I don’t care whether said child is savvy and wordly. I do care that whether I believe the discussions are harmless or not, I only had the option to judge AFTER the fact.
I don’t feel that was fair to any of the participants. Like it or not, there are laws out there, and engaging in such a discussion with a person determined a legal minor can have ramifications. I don’t want to appear on some government or watchdog list for being a possible child endangeror, whether the parents and site owners think it’s all okey dokey or not.
Julia Rachel Barrett
May 20
6:20 pm
I have three children. They are wonderful children – not perfect, but wonderful. Here’s what I’m strict about:
1. Honesty.
2. Treating others with respect – treat others as you want to be treated.
3. If you’ve been drinking, do not drive. Call me and I will come get you, no questions asked.
4. Do not ride in a car with anyone who has been drinking.
5. Wear your seatbelt.
6. You will be kind to animals, the elderly, and those less fortunate than you.
7. You will never, ever bully anyone.
8. Look both ways before crossing the street.
9. If you are going to have sex (and I told them about sex when they were ten years old) use protection. I got my girls BC pills. No apologies.
10. Boys don’t hit girls. If a boy hits you, he will continue to hit you.
11. No means no.
12. Adults should not touch you in any way that makes you uncomfortable.
13. You can come to me or to your father with anything.
Blah…blah…blah…
I cannot believe the number of people who are comfortable with their children watching violent horror and slasher films yet refuse to expose their children to the reality of sex. C’mon! Horror films, slasher films and shows containing gratuitous violence are not allowed in my home. R-rated movies – because of sex and/or language, are perfectly acceptable.
I am a strict mother, but I’m also a realist. What burns me? Parents who live in denial and then get all pissed off because my kids know about sex and might drop the bomb on their kids. Well guess what? In my experience, the parents who have tried the hardest to keep any information about sex from their kids have ended up with pregnant teenagers. There’s a whole boatload of them around here!
Melissa Blue
May 20
6:43 pm
Snort. Oh, the torture.
If they are participating they are in a totally different realm than what we are discussing. But, yes, I agree they can build a healthy sex life without beating a dead horse.
And this thought, the entire discussion actually, got me thinking how often do we talk to teens without knowing it. DA, SB and a lot of other review sites do not have a If You Under The Age of… warning. Even if they did have a page where you click to agree to see the site, nothing stops the teen from entering. (Unless the parents have the computer set up to block those sites.) Scary thought and this still goes back to how we talk to each other online.
True, because the whole magic number ideal is that at this age they are somehow ready and prepared for the responsibility thrown at them. Makes me think of getting published. One day you aren’t the next day you are. Nothing magical happens and you are not somehow given the secret handshake.
And, you are welcome about NTK.
AztecLady
May 20
8:32 pm
Exactly.
The only way any of us know anything about the people we interact with online is for those people to tell us–either up front or over time, through their behaviour/writing. Unless we are sitting next to them as they type and hit the post/send button, there is nothing to distinguish that fifteen year old and the forty four year old.
Yes, eventually, if someone is truly determined and savvy, they’ll find out the real life identity of a specific blogger/poster/commenter who has been around for years–but what do we know (what can we know) about the occasional commenter anywhere?
Which brings me to Melissa’s excellent point: often, and acting under the assumption that we are all adults (however we define that state), we behave abusively towards each other.
(Mind, I don’t mean we should all hold hands and sing Kumbaya *shudder* disagreement is the spice of life, after all)
sallahdog
May 20
11:25 pm
I got to thinking about what makes me uncomfortable.. I do understand that for some people talking with a 15 year old would squick them… but here is what makes me squicky
Women who look like MY MOM writing sex scenes.. which is why I try never to read authors blogs or look at pictures on the back of books…
I asked my daughter (who is 15) about this issue… she finds it amazing that a 15 year old guy is willing to talk to a bunch of women who are likely the age of his mom about a romance novel… she wouldnt mind reading and writing a review, but she wouldnt want to “chat” with us about it… Which to my mind makes John a lot more mature than a lot of the adult women on the blogs… including me considering my reaction to women older than 50 writing erotica
RRRJessica
May 20
11:37 pm
Just piping in to say thank you AL for the linkage and compliment.
I’ve enjoyed the discussion here a lot.
Magdalen
May 21
12:09 am
The way I see it, Jane at DA had a duty to John (the reviewer) not to put him in a sticky situation. I don’t care what he reads, but I don’t think it was right to publish his review of an erotic novel. Jane knows better than anyone what comment threads at DA can be like, and she should have been able to predict potential problems with the scenario of 15 y.o. reviewer + an erotic novel.
I also think she had a duty to the readers at DA to publish reviews that don’t have flaws like matching up a 15 y.o. reviewer + an erotic novel. Personally, I don’t think notice is sufficient, but it’s clearly the bare minimum.
So she breached her duty to John, both in publishing his review at all and then not protecting him when the kerfuffle hit the fan. And she breached her duty to DA’s readers.
But do you see what’s not mentioned here? I don’t think Jane or anyone has a duty to police what John reads. Not our job, if it’s anyone’s.
coribo25
May 21
9:49 am
Can’t remember who made the point, but someone said, if that was a fifteen year old girl, or your fifteen year old daughter, reviewing and discussing erotica online with a bunch of adult male readers, would we all be as comfortable with it?
LizA
May 21
4:33 pm
I must admit to being a bit puzzled about the whole outrage. As far as I could see it, John focused on the narrative, the characterization and the language of the books. I fail to see how discussing such issues with anyone could be inappropriate, 15 or not 15, guy or girl. I could see it if the whole discussion had been about erotic fantasies and the like, but he barely even mentioned them.
I think there are worse things out there than reading a book that is ultimately a romance, writing about it and discussing it in a mature way. I would feel it was icky if a 15 year old went on and on about the sex scenes, but a 15 year old writing about character developement?
christine Merrill
May 21
7:42 pm
I am sure that the New Miss USA didn’t think there was anything wrong with taking an all female dance class and wearing a t-shirt and shorts. But now, the headlines now read
Rima Fakih Stripper PHOTOS: Miss USA’s Pole Dancing Past Revealed …
Which is more interesting, the reality, or the headline?
There was nothing all that scandalous about the text of the review, or the comments made. But it would only take one sly comment, or someone wanting to stir up trouble, and all the blog posts about it would be titled:
Romance Writers and fans talk erotica with underage boys!
And then, the ouraged comments would begin about defending the genre, sexually frustrated authors peddling porn to minors, internet dangers to children… And someone would leak it to a bigger site, or a newspaper…
And people would be hip deep in the comment thread, admitting that they hadn’t had time to read the whole thing, because it was so long, but that they would be adding all the people involved to their do not buy list.
The truth can be quite innocent. But often, it is the perception that matters, not the truth. People read headlines, not stories.
Michelle
May 21
11:47 pm
Really, do bloggers owe their readers anything? I would say no, don’t like the blog don’t visit. Also there is no age verification on comments, so people can be having conversations with minors without realizing it.
I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that people think romance = porn. So OMG talking porn with a 15 y.o.
Shelly @ Bewitched
May 23
7:05 am
I think some of the people that are crying foul have missed the part where John admits the book wasn’t labeled as Erotic Fiction. He was sent the book and he reviewed it. Period. He felt an obligation to review a book he had chosen to review. AND he has stated that his preference is YA and he will be sure in the future to be careful about which books he chooses from the list of availables. So why all the hub bub about one freakin’ review that was intelligently written and where people did not subsequently talk in graphic detail about the sex scenes?
Age is a number people. It does not take into account emotional and or educational understanding. I know plenty of 25 yr olds whom I think should still be reading about Dick & Jane watching Spot run.
Bottom line it was an unintentional mistake where John was professional enough to finish the assignment and then gracefully deal with all the attacks. Let his parents, parent and let Jane fix the mistake where the book was mislabeled. Accidents happen.
And Rachel, you are def. a true nutter. TG I don’t have children who would be in “contamination distance” of your perfectly straight as an arrow children. Also, I doubt Gen X reading Candlelight Romances and Harlequin and Penthouse Forum Letters was the beginning of the end of a generation…
Just MHO….
London Mabel
May 25
5:32 am
I was reading Judith Krantz when I was 12, so I don’t have a problem with what this kid reads. But I think the blog owner could have posted a simple notice stating the age of the reviewer. I agree with Magdalen that Jane should have stepped in and shielded John from the criticism.
GrowlyCub
May 26
9:43 pm
It’s rather astounding to me how many people make value judgments without informing themselves of the facts.
Jane did not assign this book to John. John is a reviewer for Netgalley from whence he downloaded ‘Sinful’ not realizing that Harlequin Spice is exactly that: ‘spicy’.
He made a comment in a thread (I think the monthly reader thread) about having started reading the book, where he also disclosed his age and said he would write a review once he was finished.
Unless any and all of the commenters on DA or any other blog self-identify with age we have *no* idea who they are or how old they are. I can’t help but find hypocrisy in the unexpressed (subconscious?) sentiment that ‘it’s fine if I talk to underage people on romance blogs, just as long as I don’t know it’.