Apparently Tina Engler AKA Jaid Black Tried To Contact Her Husband’s Victims To Help Free Him From Prison? WTF?
Wednesday, April 20, 2011Posted in: Elloras Cave, Tina Engler AKA Jaid Black
The comment below was posted by a lady called Angela, claiming to be one of the victims of Jaid Black’s (Elloras Cave founder) husband (you guys remember him right? He’s serving time for murder etc, etc.) The comment was in response to this post, from way back. Some of you may remember the shitstorm it caused.
Anyway, here’s what Angela wrote:
“KAREN
This blog hits home to me because I am also a vitcum of her husband in the case he is serving a life sentence for.
The young womans name that was murdered is Karen also! I am Angela, Karen Stewart’s daughter. One of his charges are for attempted murder against me because after shooting my mother he shot at me and thankfully the bullet wizzed by my head.
I was 14 then and am almost 32 now. That was how old she was when he took her from us (for the rest of our lives).
She was an amazing woman and mother. My daughter is 8 and my step daughter is 14 and they have more heart and brains than this (Jaid) Black woman. Thank you so much for taking up for the victum (my mother)and our family.
Neither of those idiots have any remorse.A few years ago she contacted me trying any way she could to find a reason to get here low life, “Poor” and “Uneducated” husband, David Keen, out of prison. I was shocked and disgusted.
To respond to Mrs. Tina Marie Keens, AKA Jade Black’s statment, YES he deserves to be alone and have lousy medical, rotten fruits and vegetables and no family.My brother and I were left without a mother and our children have no grandmother. His victim is DEAD and we have a hole in our lives and are consequently victims and his incarceration is of great value to us and we ALL think he is where he belongs, FOREVER, just as my mother is unfortunatly where she is FOREVER. In that lousy prison system that I am so thankful for.”
I can’t lie, that comment made me feel downright weird, and not in a good way. It also made me feel very sad.
ME2
April 20
1:21 am
HUH? It sounds like her mother is the one in prison. And I guess I would expect it to read that her mother was, fortunately, in a better place forever. Could just be me though.
Anon 76
April 20
4:36 am
ME2
I think it’s just a case of her not being a writer and being very passionate about the subject.
Change this:
“His victim is DEAD and we have a hole in our lives and are consequently victims and his incarceration is of great value to us and we ALL think he is where he belongs, FOREVER, just as my mother is unfortunatly where she is FOREVER. In that lousy prison system that I am so thankful for.””
To this:
“His victim is DEAD and we have a hole in our lives and are consequently victims and his incarceration is of great value to us and we ALL think he is where he belongs, FOREVER. In that lousy prison system that I am so thankful for. Just as my mother is, unfortunatly, where she is FOREVER.”
And I’m only posting this because I really don’t want anyone to mistake her words or intent. Things can go totally south on the internet when that happens.
Karen Scott
April 20
7:56 am
Really? I read, and re-read her comment several times, and at no point did I think it seemed like it was her mother in prison, it seems pretty clear to me, typos and all.
Let me paraphrase for those who may read the above and for whatever reason jump to th same conclusion as ME2:
Her mother was murdered by Tina Engler’s husband, (David Keen) and she’s grateful that he’s serving time in prison, and as far as she’s concerned, he should be there forever, seeing as her mother is gone from their lives forever, due to him killing her and all.
Does that make it clearer?
Also just in case you guys missed this bit, she was the 14 year old girl that he also attempted to murder.
I remember that he indeed tried to murder the victim’s young daughter, and this appears to be that young girl, years later, still devastated by his actions.
Amarinda Jones
April 20
10:24 am
I read and it thought it bloody sad and unfair what some people are put through by the stupidity, greed and wantonly disrespectful actions of others.
Mireya
April 20
11:44 am
Frankly, when I first learned about who Engler’s husband is, I thought she didn’t have all her marbles. The above just confirms that notion. Reaching to the girl that the murderer tried to kill, after that girl saw her own mother shot by the man? Really, is anyone out there that thinks that Engler is all “there” if you know what I mean?
It’s sad and tragic.
ANGELA
April 20
9:17 pm
Hello,
This is Angela, Karen Stewarts daughter again. I commented on the post and noticed after how the end of my comment sounded like my mother was the one, or also is in prison. I tried to edit my comment but every time I scrolled down it automatically went back to the top and I could not edit it.
Anon 76’s comment edit is just how I meant to say it. And yes, I am not a writer and am very passionate about the subject.
Karen Scott, your paraphrase is correct. That is just how I feel. This is that young girl and I am still devasted by his actions. I miss my mother very much and not a day goes by that I do not want her or need her to be here. When good things happen in my life like my marrage, my children and other good experiences I do not have my special person (my mother) to share it with. When bad things happen or life is looking terrible, I do not have that special person to help me through and/or console me. I need my mother and that worthless animal took her.
When you read or hear about something like what happened to my mother and us, you may feel sad but you will never know how truely sad it is or how it effects everyday of the rest of your life unless it happens to someone you love. By the way my brother also was there and witness the low-life kill our mother.
I do not know how Tina Engler found my number but when she contacted me I could barely speak and had to give the phone to my husband. She told him how David had changed and that he deserved to be out of prison. That I was grown up and am alright now. My husband told her that I was not alright and will never be alright for the rest of my life. That what David did will haunt me forever. And it will and has effected our children forever. He told her to leave us alone.
I did contact an attorney about it but they unfortunatly said there was nothing that could be done. I did not know anything about Engler at the time. I have recently found out she is an author. I was so suprised to find this blog and it made me feel good that people cared.
Also, my mother was not married to him as someone commented. And to let everyone know the reason David Keen killed my mother, she realized how bad of a person he was and was leaving him. He told her that if he could not have her no one else will either. Then he shot her.
He very well deserves to be where he is, among other things.
Thanks everyone for caring.
Anon 76
April 20
11:03 pm
Kudos, Angela
I have so many words more of encouragement coupled with a sense of outrage that I can’t actually find the means to express them.
No, I can express them, but it is tooooo volatile.
Karen does a great job of expressing everything on her mind at every moment. This is a powerful thing.
Be well, Angela, and know that many of us think about you and the whole crappy “but my husband is sooooo sorry and so sick, please let him out.” thing
Amarinda Jones
April 21
8:21 am
“but my husband is sooooo sorry and so sick, please let him out.” thing
Amen
Teddypig
April 21
3:13 pm
Did Tina marry this sicko while he was in prison?
So she knew going in what the guy did and why he was put there.
Wow.
Anon 76
April 21
5:48 pm
Yes, TeddyP, she married him while he was in prison.
As memory serves, she was researching for a book, met Keen, and it was true LURV. She’s been an activist for his release ever since.
As memory serves, a judge even mentioned her activity on behalf of her husband in the case she is involved with in the fight against Chris Brashear. Tina was claiming ignorance for the need for her and her lawyers to file motions and disclosure documents on time, and the judge called “Bullshit” in a round about way. That based on her other motions in court for “another” case, she knew full well what was going on. And since the “other” case was on a Fed level, with much more intricacies, playing “dumb” wasn’t going to work.
All paraphrasing, of course, but it’s what I remember from reading the docs.
Mireya
April 21
5:51 pm
@Teddy: my understanding is that she met him while she was doing research for her extremely popular Death Row series. Yes, she knew BEFORE she married him, what he’d done.
angela
April 21
6:57 pm
Did any of you guys read her book? Did she talk about this case in any of her books? I could not ever bring myself to read one.
Patrice
April 21
7:07 pm
I just want to add my two cents, and my support for Angela and her family. I wish you peace. The repercussions of domestic violence and murder are far reaching and don’t just go away because anyone involved gets older. Even if a felon is considered rehabilitated, and actually experiences remorse and goes on to be a “model citizen”, the consequences of their actions will never go away. We have friends who have been convicted (non-violent crimes) and served their time, found God, completed thier parole and are now doing great. But their families were shattered and they have to work hard to stay in thier childrens lives. So yes, rehabilitation and forgiveness is possible, but there will always be consequences that must be lived with forever. I will pray for everyone touched by this tragedy.
I never read that Death Row series as it didn’t appeal to me. I stopped reading Jaid Black books years ago, and not just because she stopped actively publishing new works. Looking back now it’s hard to think of why I liked her books. Racy yes, and different at the time, but now there are so many better written racy novels to choose from. Times change and trends move on.
Neighbor hood remembers
April 22
3:24 pm
It is seen from all the ones who did not live in this area and did not witness first hand all the things to do with the case, and the daughter/victim.
David Keen was found hiding in the home of a woman with children after the murder. He did not turn himself in which would have shown his remorse. He tried to run from responsibility. David Keen was in trouble before this, and you can see only what he was charged with, not all that he was guilty of.
Most of us in this community were affected by this murder, and the fact that the murderer was on the run and hiding in our community. We as tax paying citizens ask that he never see the light of day as a free man. If his wife wants to do some good she should pay for all the costs this community suffered during the time he was hiding. The police, the trial and the time spent behind bars.
Also the comment about this no longer affecting the victims, we are all victims of David Keen. We had to live with the fear as well when he was hiding from his so called remorse. Karen was not his only victim.
DS
April 23
2:08 pm
With respect I think the Federal cases mentioned here was the ones that EC filed against Borders and a print book distributor. They filed in Ohio State Court and it was removed to the USDC. I think I saw where this settled but I don’t have any idea what the settlement involved.
AFAIK her husband’s case would have been in Fla State Court. And fat chance getting his sentence reduced there considering the crime he committed. I’ve seen several women manipulated by prisoners and I have always been amazed by how gullible they can be.
I remember years ago being shown a series of letters written by a serial killer in prison to someone I knew. They were half bad pornography and half explaining how it wasn’t his fault that he strangled the women he killed. I’m not sure which half was more nauseating.
SarahT
April 23
5:20 pm
I am appalled that Tina Engler would consider it appropriate to contact Angela under any circumstances, but for this reason…words fail me.
Angela, I wish you and your family the very best. If there is any justice, David Keen will stay where he belongs.
ANGELA
April 23
8:45 pm
Thanks again everyone.
As someone stated in the previous blog, David did get a retrial about 10 years ago. I am sure his wife paid for a good attorney.
We were put through a lot by it. We had to re-testify. It was horrible having to remember every detail. We were scared he would possibly get out but the Judge and jury found him guilty again and after he was sentenced again to a life sentence, he said this to us as he was taken out of the courtroom ” SHIT HAPPENS. SEE YOU AGAIN IN 3 YEARS. ”
That does not sound like remorse to me.
Don’t get me wrong. Some people that committed some types of crimes can and have been rehabilitated and are perfect citizens. David and this type of crime is not that type case.
Thanks again all.
Maddie
April 23
11:20 pm
I will never understand women who write and fall in love with convicts,and murderers no less.
There is something missing upstairs if you ask me, plus you would think she would be paying more attention to her failing business and taking care of her kids then to want someone who took someone life out of prison.
My mother died of cancer in 2002 and not a day goes by that I do not miss her and want her here with my sisters, niece and I, to have a family member taken from you in an act of violence I could not even understand.
My heart goes out to you and your family.
I also want to add that when I found out about Jaid Black having married a murderer I was shocked because when she first came out I thought she had her shite together and was proud that she was making bank with her ebook business (I bought my first ebook from her).
I have to tell you that I did buy books from her after I found this out, but my purchases had dried up from lots of buying to maybe one a month, but the longer I thought of it the ickyness of her having young kids and marrying someone who killed just left a sour taste in my mouth since buying books from her was funding her “get my husband out of jail” fund I could not longer buy her books and her whole attitude when this came out did not win her any new fans.
For her to call you is just disgusting, to think that passage of time will dim your family memories, just shows what a clueless and selfish person she is.
Anon 76
April 24
4:49 pm
Dear Author has an update on the Engler/Brashear case.
As DS aptly pointed out (thank you for that, by the way) my remeberance was cloudy when it came to which court system was being refered to in one case document.
Here, though,
http://www.dearauthor.com/wp-content/uploads/111910Order.pdf
is a link from DA for the twenty-seven page court doc that clearly lists all the dubious actions Engler and her cohorts performed to obstruct Brashear in the resolution of her case.
Seems she has no aversion to thumbing her nose at the court system. IMHO. Is it any wonder she would proudly rally for her murderous husband?
Just say “oops, my bad” and we should all just forgive and forget.
Suzanne
November 18
1:00 pm
As a Florida prosecutor that handles murder cases, Mrs. Englers bcomments and behavior are completely unsurprising. As par for the course, defendants families almost always blame the victim, the police, the judge, the lawyers (both for the defense and government) for the actions of the defendant; it’s not his fault he killed the victim, it’s the system. Grossly offensive? Yes. Surprising? No.
And to correct the record, Public Defenders (PD’s) in Florida are damn good attorneys. To be assigned first chair (lead attorney) in a murder case, they must be senior attorneys within their offices. They have to serve as second chair (assisting the lead/first chair) on several murder cases before they are allowed to be lead on their own case. The idiotic myth perpetuated by the ignorant that people work as PD’s because it’s the only job they can get us laughable. these people are PD’s because they truly believe in what they are doing; the majority of them could quit, go into private practice, and instantly double their salaries.
Quite simply, Mrs. Engler is someone to be pitied. She fell under the spell of a violent criminal and in order to retain any self respect (she is a very intelligent woman who has done a very stupid thing), she MUST maintain her belief that her husband is innocent. To think otherwise would force her to accept that she has fallen in love with a monster, a very difficult thing to accept.
Pepi
December 14
7:45 pm
Verry,verry sad.
Indeed.
Zilla
January 13
1:39 pm
Holy chit!
I had no idea of any of this.
This destroys my faith in EC.
I would be ill to know my profits, even one dollar went to attempt to free this sicko. How could an intelligent female go into a prison and marry a murderer?? One that did the ole if I can’t have you no one can, thing and killed her in front of her kids?
How could she have the delusion that calling the family would be somehow acceptable?
He murdered her mother for Christ sakes.
I really wish I had known this before I submitted to them. My fault I suppose. If anyone has advice on E-publisher’s I would love to hear it.
AztecLady
January 14
2:57 pm
Zilla, the intrawebs is full of advice–just google whatever publisher you are considering.
Better yet, check the Absolute Write Forums and/or Preditors and Editors for information.
Research, read and then read some more.
Zilla
January 14
3:55 pm
Ya someone just referred me to that site yesterday. Funny huh?
I don’t know I mean a business relationship and a personal relationship are two different things entirely.
But-
What bothers me is the notion that EC is taking out loans (or did) to Ms. TE and the entire print suing Border’s debacle. Worried they may be in trouble. Don’t want my rights tied up in a mess. And the signing that chick for a 75 book deal. A 75 BOOK DEAL. What does that say to you? A giant gesture that everything is okay? Or a giant gesture to mislead that everything is okay?
Thoughts?
AztecLady
January 15
5:23 am
If you haven’t signed anything, then your rights are not in danger–and no one can force you to sign anything.
If you have signed…lesson learned, I guess.
Zilla
January 17
10:16 pm
So just for kicks I went to the county website. (Ohio, Summit county) These loans have been bothering that EC takes out and is paying to TE herself.
WHy? For prison hubby? For what?
So there it is in black and white.
She has had recent judgments on tax evasion against her by the state 83k, 22k, and 44k respectively.
In the article it mentions this chick that started Samhain estimated EC earnings for the years in question and reported them to the IRS.
Well an intelligent person has to assume that she hasn’t paid the fed either.
And 30% of 6 million aint pennies.
Nor the 5 million the next year and so on.
WOW in this economy that sure is a LOT of freakin money to pay back the state. Let alone the fed.
I also went to Cuyohoga county and looked up her mother the CEO. Patty Marks.
Her house was taken and a judgement of 180 against her and her hub was entered. Who is the CEO if a company and doesn’t pay off a 180.00 bill all the way through Judgement?
Sebbie
November 12
9:21 am
She has a number of stories in which convicts are erotic heroes. I guess it’s a kink for her. :-/
Ellora’s Cave: About That Marriage to a Murderer
January 22
6:07 pm
[…] commented again on this post, and this is her comment in […]
Nicole Clinton
January 23
6:25 pm
Wow! So I had no idea that any of this was going on. I started reading the entire New Species series from Lauraan Dohner. I went to find out the next books release date, and saw some comments about her getting her rights back and self publishing now etc, which took me to here with all the info on why EC is getting such awful comments/publicity. I can’t believe all the drama one person can cause. I would be doing everything I could to get full rights back if I had published through them. There is post after post they have made making excuses and reasoning why they are having issues. I think it’s a crock. She seriously doesn’t seem balanced. Getting security detail to track down every negative letter, turning people into Interpol. I feel terrible for the authors who have put their work in her hands. It sounds like she was great earlier on and people were really happy using her/her company and then she lost her marbles. I feel for the fAmily of the victim (s) and find it absolutely nuts she had the gall to call the daughter and tell her she was fine now and try to get him out. That must have been a huge shock and a terrible reminder and someone needs to get this lady some help.